Gonna be different now, (butterfly in hurricane).

[nhmom]

Bruce,

People have spent hours to get through to you, and yet you still choose to ignore almost everything that's been posted to you. I will not spend too much time, because I'm sure that will go in one ear, and out the other, but here it goes.

My first reaction to reading your thread was "wow, is this guy for real?". Then I took a step back and decided to give you a slight benefit of the doubt. I think there could be cultural issues that are lost in translation. It doesn't mean if it's right or wrong, it just means it's different and should be looked at from a different angle. There is also a lot of immature thinking going on on your end. Without going into detail, regardless of how you were brought up and what your thoughts about woman's and man's roles are in a marriage and parenthood, you have a chance to grow and improve. And I would urge you to take that chance.

Right now, forget your W and saving your M, you need to save yourself (not because you are a victim, but because you have a chance to be a better you). Your W should be the least of your priorities. She does not deserve you in your current state, no woman does. No more thoughts about "winning" her back, no more scoring brownie points, no more mind reading and projecting.

For the immediate future, focus on growing as a person and as a father, and learn to co-parent your S.

If you think parenting is about making monkey faces and being "buddies", and just playing and having fun....you have a loooong way to go, but take the steps nonetheless. Your S is still young and it is not too late for you to be an influence in his life. The question is, what kind of influence do you want to be on him? What kind of role model do you want to be?

You want 50/50 custody, but it doesn't look like it will happen right now. And frankly, I don't think you are fit to care for a small child for such a long period of time RIGHT NOW. Keep that as your goal and work towards it. But for now, use whatever little time you can get with him, because you are still making a big influence on his life.

You are upset about your W taking away your "rights" to see him. Prove to your W (without telling her or keeping score) that you can be a father who can be trusted, and more importantly - prove it to yourself. Prove to the courts that you deserve to have your son in your life for the time you want him. Because right now, she doesn't trust you one bit, and it could take a long time to gain that trust. Are you in for the long haul? Because your last post makes it sounds like you're giving up.

If she wants you to come get him, then quit whining and go get him. Show her that you are serious about being there for your S, and not only because you feel it's your "right".

Your "buddy/buddy" R with your S will not be just that. You will have to learn how to be a parent. You need to learn about proper nutrition, hygiene, caring for a sick child, disciplining, teaching, etc. I'm not blaming you for not having these skills right now, but make time to learn about them. Some of it you will learn "on the job", and some of it you can read up on to get a perspective.

I get it that it is a very difficult and emotional time for you, but do acknowledge what people have written to you. Read it again and again. And if you don't understand something, then ask....don't just ignore them.

You keep talking about what's fair and not fair. Life is "not fair". Accept it. Deal with it. Make the best of it.

[25yearsmlc]

There is a LOT Of "Cognitive Dissonance" in what you write, say and do.

According to Festinger, an expert of sorts in what it means, here is some info for you (and your new c, I hope).

According to Festinger, we hold many cognitions about the world and ourselves; when they clash, a discrepancy is evoked, resulting in a state of tension known as cognitive dissonance. As the experience of dissonance is unpleasant, we are motivated to reduce or eliminate it, and achieve consonance (i.e. agreement).

Cognitive dissonance was first investigated by Leon Festinger,

arising out of a participant observation study of a cult which believed that the earth was going to be destroyed by a flood, and what happened to its members — particularly the really committed ones who had given up their homes and jobs to work for the cult — when the flood did not happen.

While fringe members were more inclined to recognize that they had made fools of themselves and to "put it down to experience",

committed members were more likely to re-interpret the evidence to show that they were right all along (the earth was not destroyed because of the faithfulness of the cult members).

Just spend some time thinking about THIS^^^ when you can...

Hi,
I know I haven't treated my wife the right way, granting her honor as I should have.

^^^This is true. Unfortunately, instead of stopping there, a few paragraphs after you show this "insight",

you then begin to transition back into your typical world view wherein YOU are a victim.

The whole household rested on me, to be the leader, the example, to be a kind, patient and understanding husband. And I haven't been none of it.
Before trying to take the speck out of her eye, I should have taken the log out of mine.

So for the driving issue, I replied today that during our meeting, thank you for sharing and I concurred with all her concerns. She agreed to share the driving so the effort wouldn't be borne by one only, and that was appreciated.

So, YOUR GOAL was achieved. She agreed to something you wanted, even though she had disagreed before. NOTICE this.


I didn't want to stand in her way but since she promised I expected her to do some driving.

you "didn't want to stand in her way BUT..." but what? What are you talking about?

We all know that You wanted her to share the driving to drop/pick up your son. And she agreed to do this now. Yay...baby step!


I said I trusted her to do what's fair, because I knew her from her past life. And that I was sure she would do what she believed to be right for me and Bruce.

Good...It'd have been WONDERFUL if you had stopped HERE^^^!! But you don't actually mean it, b/c of what you say below. And THAT is what I mean when I say I see a lot of Cognitive Dissonance in you.

You don't even believe half what you say when you say it, and the rest of it changes FAST, doesn't it?


I'm dropping off my rights and my anger. I'm so tired of being always disputing and strife, that I'd rather be wronged than having to put up with another quarrel.

More martyr talk NOT based on truth. This is NOT reality based!

AND

How does this attitude help you at all? It baffles me. You are not happier with it and you don't seem willing to change it so, why the heck don't you change something real, in YOU?

I know that being nice and conciliatory doesn't work with W, but I'm doing this to have peace.

What?? WHAT???

Your presumably calm words to your w about sharing the driving, achieved a change of mind on her part...

which PROVES being nice and conciliatory DOES WORK W/YOUR WIFE!!!

How can you not see that? You seem to think being nice to her MUST mean she comes back to you - or drops all demands.

Anything less, is WRONG/MEAN/PUNITIVE of HER. Bruce, Your world view is not the adult view of the world. I gotta ask, what was your childhood like?

Were you an only child? Were you pampered?

Bruce,

Please see the new counselor SOON.


And above all peace of mind, so I could sleep and work during the day, rather than thinking whether or how W would retaliate.


She asked for child support and half the assets and spousal support. YOU SAY that is retaliatory. I say it's normal.

Also, WE ALL told you not to mention wanting to buy a house to her. But nope, you just had to tell her...YOU INSISTED on it. And you never have admitted that we warned you. And you never did answer my question,

"WHY did you tell her?"

You'll say "b/c I didn't think she'd want any of MY stuff" which is NOT WHY you told her.

You told her b/c you hoped SHE WOULD WANT IT SO MUCH SHE"D COME HOME TO YOU...and when she did not give you that reaction,

you claim she is "retaliatory". I say you made her notice ANOTHER discrepancy in life style between you and her...which was your goal, but not with the desired outcome.

Yes she's taking all my money, yes she escaped with my son and manipulated me in promising I would be able to be with them and that was a lie. But if she sues me and want to have my shirt, she can have my cloak also.
I will dismiss my L, and tell my wife I'd rather be defrauded than fight against her. I'm already defeated by going to court with her.

Stop this^^ thought disorder at once. It's not healthy or reality based.

It keeps you stuck in an angry, juvenile mode.

Change your mode or paradigm NOW. It's most unhealthy and most unattractive.

I'll tell her I don't agree with D, but that I won't contest it.

She knows you don't agree with it. But what's to contest? Custody? (The divorce itself is not contestable. The support orders are temporary. So that leaves...your son).

I don't blame her for that,


YES YOU DO BLAME HER!

Bruce, this ^^^ is more cognitive dissonance from you. You say something you CLEARLY DO NOT MEAN, b/c we all know you DO blame her.

It's as if when things don't go your way, you want to take your toys and go home. Are you looking for an excuse to cut & run back to France??

and only trust that she will that what's just. I won't open my mouth to defend myself. It's useless, I may obtain this and that, but I'll lose her.

The only thing I'll cling to, is my S. We've become buddies now, and I really want to shield him from this mess.
Bruce

If you really are buddies with your son, do not fire your L.

Your lawyer is your best chance of gaining any meaningful time with son.

So decide what is more important to you.

Being a martyr victim in your wife's eyes, or time with your son.

If your son is more important, then you'll need to "man up & show up" in court, with your son's best interests put first.

Adults do this every day. It's not easy. But you seem to think your situation is grossly unfair, or uniquely rare. It's neither.

Your support payments are TEMPORARY! You know this! So when you persist in misrepresenting them to garner support from people who don't know the real situation you created, the deceit is annoying.

It makes me wonder how on earth your w ever got through to you on anything.

She said you two "have differences on fundamental issues" and I bet that is true.

Have you made any inroads into this insight of hers?

Because even now, with all these parents here,

you mock the child care she wanted help with.

(BRUCE---the "bah bah bah" and "monkey faces" comments, were oozing with contempt....among the most offensive comments I've ever read, anywhere, about children. You better change that attitude TODAY!

And seriously, if you never liked or knew kids before, get some tools to learn about raising them. I never hear you tell us of the FUN things you do, just your "duty FILLED" time and it never sounds joyful, just scorekeeping as "evidence" of the great dad you will be.

And the comments... I could not tell if it was only contempt for her, or contempt for her AND your son...but it's offensive and disappointing AND revealing.

Ask yourself what it means about you. Dig deep. You say you like extreme sports. Then get brave.

Did you really read my last post?? Did you take any of it in and THINK about it
OR
did it overwhelm you, so you decided to take your toys and go home, WHILE playing the victim/martyr?

OWN UP to this^^ stuff!

Please please see a new c soon and get the tools you need to learn empathy and compassion.

REAL empathy and compassion last for more than an hour...or a few sentences.

When you learn to see your wife's point of view, without IMMEDIATELY defending yourself, gloss over your errors, or blame HER for something "much worse",

then we'll have gotten somewhere.

I wish you the best Bruce, the best YOU that you can become, and the best father your son deserves.

And I wish you peace inside.

[HollyAnn]

Hi,
I know I haven't treated my wife the right way, granting her honor as I should have.
The whole household rested on me, to be the leader, the example, to be a kind, patient and understanding husband. And I haven't been none of it.
Before trying to take the speck out of her eye, I should have taken the log out of mine.

So for the driving issue, I replied today that during our meeting, thank you for sharing and I concurred with all her concerns. She agreed to share the driving so the effort wouldn't be borne by one only, and that was appreciated.
I didn't want to stand in her way but since she promised I expected her to do some driving.
I said I trusted her to do what's fair, because I knew her from her past life. And that I was sure she would do what she believed to be right for me and Bruce.

I'm dropping off my rights and my anger. I'm so tired of being always disputing and strife, that I'd rather be wronged than having to put up with another quarrel.

I know that being nice and conciliatory doesn't work with W, but I'm doing this to have peace.
And above all peace of mind, so I could sleep and work during the day, rather than thinking whether or how W would retaliate.

Yes she's taking all my money, yes she escaped with my son and manipulated me in promising I would be able to be with them and that was a lie. But if she sues me and want to have my shirt, she can have my cloak also.
I will dismiss my L, and tell my wife I'd rather be defrauded than fight against her. I'm already defeated by going to court with her.
I'll tell her I don't agree with D, but that I won't contest it. I don't blame her for that, and only trust that she will that what's just. I won't open my mouth to defend myself. It's useless, I may obtain this and that, but I'll lose her.

The only thing I'll cling to, is my S. We've become buddies now, and I really want to shield him from this mess.
Bruce

Your W is being petty and her only goal at this point seems to be to punish you.
She initially had no interest in having a baby until she saw how she could use the child against you. This is not good for your son.
Despicable.

[25yearsmlc]

Holly,

Sorry for the length. First, have you read the DB or DR books LATELY?
Do you get the main themes....??

I don't enjoy reducing & oversimplifying so much...but I had to ask.

HollyAnn,

I have a hard time believing you have read Bruce's whole thread.

I have a hard time believing you have read what others have said to him, including people who've been here & posted here, AND to him, for a very long time.

But please stop & think BEFORE encouraging behaviors that keep Bruce stuck in victimhood.

I don't know if you are here intending to stir things up,

or if you are confusing his sitch with another,

OR if you are projecting your feelings about your situation, onto Bruce.

But I recall some of your history. Your ex h had trouble with his ex w and their daughter, when you married/got together.

You felt your stepdaughter caused problems/conflicts in the marriage AND OR her mother made her do so...and that you were blamed for those problems.

Now your x h has expressed interest in a relationship with you. You're taking it slow, correct?

See, to me that's NOT a situation that applies.

Yet I feel as if SOMETHING is causing you come here and

hurl out bold baseless assertions, assertioins ,

such as "ANY" mother who interferes with her ex h seeing their child is "DESPICABLE"...

I mean, can you really not imagine ANY scenario in which it might be a good idea to transition a TWO year old's care, over time,
so he gets to know the man who was a virtual stranger to him most of his life?

"She's 'DESPICABLE" for wanting it to be gradual? She's despicable to want S for evenings/weekends and over night b/c Bruce has never shown her he can do this. He ONLY RECENTLY asked for it. Only after we implored him to do so.

You were way off with the "Golden Uterus" syndrome accusation you tossed out there.

Though you are not a mother yet, your ex h's xw IS, and in your thread it's clear that you feel she gave you a hard HARD time in your marriage to her ex h.

I know you suffered for it, and I'm sorry about that.
But the situations are NOT alike at all to me.

I think somehow the pain you see in Bruce reminded you of your pain, and your xh's pain when his xw caused problems, and that struck a nerve in you.

But Holly, I think you are not doing him any good and I don't know what part of DBing says that calling a WAS a name, without full contextl does much good. It's what we come here to avoid, outside friends who get angry at our spouses or want our pain to end.

I think your comments help Bruce backslide and keep him stuck. Just Think about it... AND ASK...

What does Bashing his wife, do FOR Bruce?

Lately, it sounds as if It keeps him so angry he can't see straight or control his words around her.

So, How does it help his situation at all?

AND WORST OF ALL...

IT deflects from HIS OWN PERSONAL WORK, which everyone else here believes he needs to do...

you are literally the only person who believes Bruce's wife is "despicable" & who sees him as a victim.

No one defended her changing her mind about the pick up times (assuming Bruce's commentary was accurate, which is not easy to assume, b/c he deliberately mislead us with regard to the spousal support...more than once). No one HERE defended her refusal to sit down and chat...but then I wonder. Bruce SAID they had done so before he asked for time with son...

That changed after her pressured her AND after he sought more time with his son. TO HIM that looks retaliatory. TO ME, that looks protective.

Holly, I worry about why you've expressed no concern re BRUCE'S lack of involvement w/his son when he had the chance.

I worry you don't think his overt neglect was a reason for his wife to be hurt.

What about his disinterest in his son's medical conditions? That lasted until LEGAL matters made it imperative for him to express SOME interest.

He did that, in writing...which is what I would have suggested, as a lawyer.

I know you are not a mother but use your imagination here...you were a stepmom, you grew to love your SD, right? I mean at least for some years?

So, As a mother, it would mean a lot to me and , at which time he THEN wrote to her a few questons)?

And, sadly, what about the way he mocked attempts at childcare on HIS end (just this week!) Didn't the "Bah bah bah...monkey faces" bother you, at all?

Can you at least understand how a mother would feel about that, from the co-parent?

Finally, how he treated (or rather, did NOT) his son in the face of his wife's requests for help (another reason the "Golden Uterus" analogy utterly fails) makes me wonder if you are sort of just rooting for him based on him reminding you or someone...OR his x w reminds you of someone...???

I sure hear zero empathy for HER experience with Bruce before she left him... Despite his claims, she DID communicate with him. You said you were blind sided by your h's departure so maybe that hit a chord for you. I get that.

But since then, I'd like to think you've done some more realistic analysis of your situation in the past. My guess is that you, more than most, know the myth of the "Blended families" is just that, a myth. It's not the Brady Bunch...and it's HARD as heck to do well

...but man, ^^ that's not applicable in this family situation.

So I have to ask you, Who does his wife remind you of, in your situation?

And what good does it do Bruce, to sweepingly tell him his wife is "despicable", --a woman whom he sometimes still professes to love and with whom he ssometimes says he wants a reconciliation with??

Giving an under dog some positive feedback can make sense. At times I think, "IF Bruce is real, then maybe he's unable to face his demons b/c he's afraid that deep down that is all there is", which I know is not true.

I can see that If you think someone is getting too many 2 x4s or isn't "getting anything good" you'd want to balance it out a bit w/positive feedback and applause for something positive he does...

But tearing HIS WIFE down, does not achieve that. Plus, it just strikes me as very odd. You word it so strongly, in absolutes. "SHE IS WRONG"...

I used to want to hear that about my h. But when 3 mc's in a row told my h he was being "selfish" or "thinking like a single man", even though I felt vindicated, I also felt powerless...

b/c after all, what is there to DO, if he is so wrong??

Only when I turned the lens onto myself, did I change or grow or improve.

Bashing my h did NOT help and after a YEAR or so of venting, intermittently, I made it clear to folks here that my goal was MY improvement,and my children's lives getting better, including GAL and a PMA.

Your words about his wife are, imo, grossly unfair. But more importantly, they don't help him. HE calls words like that a 'balm" but if bashing his wife is what makes him feel better, then we've identified another important issue for him to work on

or at least another dimension to his rage. Please think out what effect words like that to someone who is on the ledge and MIGHT get real, if he wakes up.

You give him the straw to cling to that makes him value being RIGHT more than being happy...

FTR No, I don't think he's right.

But I also would not care if he were, at this point,

b/c BRUCE'S goals in coming here, were/are to

1) save himself as a man, &

2) to foster a r with his son, (we all advised him to get legal assistance for shared custody and we all gave him advice about improving as a father b/c he's in a Beginner's mind, which DB advises when appropriate,

and

3) to try and save his marriage.

SHE IS NOT HERE trying to do that.

Since She is solely focussed on what is best for their child (in her opinion)

a child Bruce ignored while present and then did not see for months and while he SAYS she "stole his child" that is the NEW version of their story.

When you read ALL of his first posts, you'll find that he knew she was going and HE STAYED BEHIND to finish work related items and sell the house...he gave consent to her removing little Bruce from France.

later, she told BB NOT to join them in Canada b/c of fundamental differences in family life and child rearing and finances.

This was all included in the ONE part of the ONE letter Bruce shared with us...a letter outlining their previous discussions. She did not sound confused to us. She did not sound furious. She sounded sad, hurt, frustrated but also resolute.


So her behavior is actually not relevant to what WE are doing here...b/c she is not presently interested in saving the marriage.

We are here to help Bruce with the goals above^^^.

Negative comments about her, are not helpful either. I happen to think his pursuit comes off as manipulation, to HER. That is why SHE avoids direct contact w/him at pick up times. She does not refuse son's contact, she refuses Bruce's...

BRUCE admitted that he would use those times to charm her.

[Big Bruce]

Hum, hum,
A little clarification is needed.
First it is not my xw, it is still my W, who I love unconditionally.

Second, the reason why I wanted to dismiss my L was because I would rather be wrong than be involved in a battle against my W. I want to protect her so much I prefer being defrauded than throw one accusation against her. (Plus, I forgave her all her offenses, how could I go back and bring it up again?)
When we argued, she called me "idiot", and sometimes "imbecil"! I never called one single name to her.
Therefore, I don't think of her in bad terms, even though I know she is making the worse decision of her life. And is acting the worse possible.
HollyAnn is right in saying that she's not being fair and unreasonnable even if she used different words. I just don't want to dwell on it. I need change, and I let the Lord change W.

And finally, W didn't want my time with S to be progressive, she asked me to stay in France, and when I still came she made it clear she didn't want me to see him at all. I'm glad members of this forum encouraged me to seek for more time with S, I already missed out his most tender years.

As for the money, the order runs till end of June, correct, but the child support will still apply until S is 18. So much for a temporary thing, huh? The special expenses (childcare) will also run until he's an adult, and will be transformed into soccer club, piano lessons, this and that. So it isn't "temporary" either 25yearsmic. And the spousal support, true it has an end to it, but W is starting in September a 4 year course at uni and given our differences in salary, I'll be paying for a good chunk of time. If lucky it will stop in a couple of years, still, the amounts are astronomical.
The reason is that the tables and recommendations were made for a difference in salaries, not for one person working and the other studies and claims to earn 0 !!!

I'm broke, and I don't even qualify for the food bank (like the US food stamps.) It's not for no reason that I was considering going back to France last week, believe me.

So anyways, yesterday evening W sent a long email explaining what to feed S, when to change him and when to nap him. I thanked her and told her I'd do my best and would let her know how it went.
I had S from 9 to 3pm today, and we had so much fun!
S wouldn't sleep his nap, and I wrote that in the log, probably W is going to be mad about it, but oh well.

But what I wanted to ask is this : I came to the realization of something today. When I brought S back, W's mum was there making a face (she often looks sullen) and without saying any greeting said to me in an agressive tone of voice who took me by surprise: "we prefer he keeps his hood when he's outside, we don't want him sick!"
Now, from my car to their door, there's less than 5 meters, and it was a warm day today anyway (to the point I wasn't wearing my coat). The point is not whether or not I should have put the hood for the 10 second transfer, but I understood that my W is not alone in her decision. There are powers behind her. There are people manipulating, pouring their hatred, their fears or their soap-opera minds in W's ears.
That is why whenever W seemed to soften, the next time she came back all rigid and silent and determined to separate again. And I didn't understand...
Is it a possibility she's under the influence of her mom, and if yes, how to break it?

Should I send an email to W explaining how today's visit went, or say nothing, knowing that the "main" things are in the log book?

Thanks to all.

[25yearsmlc]

Hum, hum,
A little clarification is needed.
First it is not my xw, it is still my W, who I love unconditionally.

Second, the reason why I wanted to dismiss my L was because I would rather be wrong than be involved in a battle against my W. I want to protect her so much I prefer being defrauded than throw one accusation against her.

You just put IN an accusation.^^^^ You said she was defrauding you...

(Plus, I forgave her all her offenses, how could I go back and bring it up again?)
When we argued, she called me "idiot", and sometimes "imbecil"! I never called one single name to her.

You have said she acted "out of her head", "retaliatory", and other things HERE. You also keep score, still, And That's all we can go on

AND the fact that a woman with an infant left her h, the fahter of that infant AFTER asking for help for nearly a year and being lonely BEFORE the baby came and then getting NO help from her h, left a home they had shared for 3 years, and the man she loved enough to leave her own country to join, left to return to live with her parents

means a very different thing to ME, than it does to you....obviously.

Therefore, I don't think of her in bad terms, even though I know she is making the worse decision of her life. And is acting the worse possible.

More cognitive dissonance.^^ Look it up.


HollyAnn is right in saying that she's not being fair and unreasonnable even if she used different words. I just don't want to dwell on it. I need change, and I let the Lord change W.

And finally, W didn't want my time with S to be progressive, she asked me to stay in France, and when I still came she made it clear she didn't want me to see him at all. I'm glad members of this forum encouraged me to seek for more time with S, I already missed out his most tender years.

ONCE SHE LEFT YOU, and you took MONTHS to join her and your son...THEN she said "don't bother". You keep skimming over facts like we don't recall them.

As for the money, the order runs till end of June, correct, but the child support will still apply until S is 18. So much for a temporary thing, huh?

THIS APPLIES TO EVERY SINGLE PARENT IN THE WORLD!!! OMG...what is wrong with you?? What a BURDEN Your son is...

Sometimes I think maybe

ANY MAN who begrudges his children support should NOT see them...

SHE has to care for him until then too...ever ever ever think of how much WORK SHE does for him?


The special expenses (childcare) will also run until he's an adult, and will be transformed into soccer club, piano lessons, this and that.
So it isn't "temporary" either 25yearsmic. [/b]


You mean his MEDICAL conditions?? The ones you didn't believe or know about??

You have blown it Bruce. I'm done. You are not deserving of time with him OR my help. This is the MOST SELFISH thing I've read here.

And hey, you can always hope something bad happens to him, so YOU won't have to pay so much...and suffer the INJUSTICE of it all....



And the spousal support, true it has an end to it, but W is starting in September a 4 year course at uni and given our differences in salary, I'll be paying for a good chunk of time. If lucky it will stop in a couple of years, still, the amounts are astronomical.

It's called transitional support here, to get her on her feet.

The reason is that the tables and recommendations were made for a difference in salaries, not for one person working and the other studies and claims to earn 0 !!!


I'm broke, and I don't even qualify for the food bank (like the US food stamps.) It's not for no reason that I was considering going back to France last week, believe me.

So anyways, yesterday evening W sent a long email explaining what to feed S, when to change him and when to nap him. I thanked her and told her I'd do my best and would let her know how it went.
I had S from 9 to 3pm today, and we had so much fun!
S wouldn't sleep his nap, and I wrote that in the log, probably W is going to be mad about it, but oh well.

But what I wanted to ask is this : I came to the realization of something today. When I brought S back, W's mum was there making a face (she often looks sullen) and without saying any greeting said to me in an agressive tone of voice who took me by surprise: "we prefer he keeps his hood when he's outside, we don't want him sick!"
Now, from my car to their door, there's less than 5 meters, and it was a warm day today anyway (to the point I wasn't wearing my coat). The point is not whether or not I should have put the hood for the 10 second transfer, but I understood that my W is not alone in her decision. There are powers behind her. There are people manipulating, pouring their hatred, their fears or their soap-opera minds in W's ears.
That is why whenever W seemed to soften, the next time she came back all rigid and silent and determined to separate again. And I didn't understand...
Is it a possibility she's under the influence of her mom, and if yes, how to break it?

Should I send an email to W explaining how today's visit went, or say nothing, knowing that the "main" things are in the log book?

Thanks to all.

[Melting]

"Sometimes I think maybe

ANY MAN who begrudges his children support should NOT see them..."

^^^^ this.
I have read every post in every thread Bruce has written. I have not commented because, honestly, you were getting incredibly solid advice from these good people here. People who took significant time to sincerely try to help you. There wasn't much more I could add that wasn't already being said.

But now, with these past posts with your 'bah bah bah' comments about your child and your unrealistic expectations of what it takes (emotionally and financially) to raise a healthy son...much less one with health issues... iI feel an overwhelming desire to come out and publicly side with your wife. I agree wholeheartedly with 25's Cognitive Dissonance theory. If your approach on this forum reflects even a percentage of your behavior with your wife both during and after your marriage...SMH.

Everything she is asking for through her L is absolutely fair. Just because you don't agree, doesn't negate the fairness of their requests. If I were your wife, I would limit your visitation with your son too. I wouldn't trust that you would have his best interests at heart, based on your past behavior. Asking a mother to trust someone else with her son's well-being, when there is no historical reference to prove that person is trustworthy with the child is incredibly unfair. And not like borrowing your car unfair...this is a child. Not a toy to tug of war over. And then, you complain about paying for your son for the rest of his life until adulthood. Um, that's the hand you were dealt. Financial responsibility is yours, Dad. Regardless of whether you see him or not. You are his Dad. Start acting like it, not playing the 'dad-game' to make a point or 'show her'.

This is a marriage support forum and I think every one here has worked to exhaustion to try to support you, help you find the change within yourself that you need to find to be a good father ( which should be one of your only goals right now). Unfortunately, it is proving to be a fruitless effort.

Sorry for the 2x4's, but you don't seem to get it. Pull your head out of your butt, recognize what is truly important here, man up and start really being a dad. That is all.

[Big Bruce]

Oh, I'm an idiot,
I've blown it, the only support I had in this tough times.
Everything I do in life seems to fail, oh my, I'm in such a bad crisis right now. I have cognitive dissonance (say things the opposite of what I feel), and anger that I can't seem to be able to control.
I publicly apologize for the "bah bah" comment, I'm just not gifted for playing with babies. Sorry again for such insensitivity.
I feel like, I don't know, maybe going to Australia and pretending all this never happened, it's a nightmare that seems to have no end. My worse nightmare. I want out.

Asking a mother to trust someone else with her son's well-being, when there is no historical reference to prove that person is trustworthy with the child is incredibly unfair.

Well, aren't moms trusted with 3 days old infants when they get out of the hospital? Nobody asks them to prove that they will be good moms or if they did it before. Why would W need to test or trial me before? Besides he's a toddler now.
Is asking a little faith in me from her too much?

And we really had a good time together with S. I changed his diaper twice, I fed him, we played in the park, tried to put him to sleep, sang to him, rocked him, I cleaned his nose 1000 times, I carried him back and forth to McDo, to supermarket and back.
You can reproach my having no experience, but not my goodwill.
I am trying, I am trying.

[Big Bruce]

And oh, I don't begrudge the child support, I begrudge the fact that the amount is so big, that even if W wanted to spend all the money in a month she physically couldn't. It is not materially possible to spend it all for a toddler. It represents the equivalent of 3000 diapers, 1600 meals, 200 lbs of clothes, one roomfull of toys and 50 child medical appointments. Every month.

I'm asked to pay unrealistic amounts, that's all I'm saying.

[Tallula]

Oh, I'm an idiot

True statement.

Asking a mother to trust someone else with her son's well-being, when there is no historical reference to prove that person is trustworthy with the child is incredibly unfair.

Well, aren't moms trusted with 3 days old infants when they get out of the hospital? Nobody asks them to prove that they will be good moms or if they did it before. Why would W need to test or trial me before? Besides he's a toddler now.
Is asking a little faith in me from her too much?

For real?!? At some point I really question if you are for real or just here to rile people up?! I mean, there is NO comparison to a new mother who WANTS her child, and a dad who PURPOSELY IGNORED his child his entire life. What reason in the world have you given her to have even a teeny tiny bit of faith in you. "besides he's a toddler". Did you even say this. Good luck. I have to stop reading this thread. Alot of people have tried to help. I feel badly for your W & hope you work to do right by your son.