Thanks for reading my first post. I have been reading many great posts here during the last couple of months. It is nice to see how sincere people are in supporting each other under incredibly tough circumstances. That is uplifting.
I'll keep this brief and then follow up with a more detailed post.
Just a quick summary:
- Aug 2012 - W's demeanor towards me completely changed, indicated she wanted independence. Still physical at this time. But W is distant, not the same towards me.
- Sep 2012 - BD, indicated ILYBINILWY in the form of "I feel nothing for you", "I feel no connection with you". W said she wants space. Cuts me off emotionally and physically at that point. Not even a gradual decline. Like falling off a cliff.
- Oct 2012 - W started using guest bedroom
- Jan 2013 - W moves out for trial separation (we've agreed on duration, kids, financials, not dating). W requested the trial separation.
I have read and learned much about myself and our relationship since August. I think for the most part I have handled the situation well in the presence of my W. Readings include among others 5LL, [*], and currently reading DR. I think clearly there are things I need to improve in terms of communications with my W and probably be more interested in her interests. While I am new to DR I believe I had been using the ideas from this book but I have much to learn.
Not sure it is necessary to classify my wife as WAW or MLC or just simply fallen out of love or grown apart. Don't think that matters. I just want to learn better behaviors, set goals, be patient, GAL, and start baby steps to growing closer to my wife again to give our marriage a chance to survive.
I have learned to take what my W says with a grain of salt but admit sometimes things she says get under my skin since BD. She is clearly detaching and separating from me at this time.
So the title of my thread? Recently W and I were with a couple we've known for a while and W was telling a story about an experience with a friend of mine. During the telling of the story W kept saying "you know, that friend of yours" to me. Of course, I didn't want to make a scene with our friends and never brought it up to wife but "that friend of yours" was the best man in our wedding. Of course she knew his name. We had just talked about him recently before this conversation. That behavior is exasperating but I've learned it goes with the territory and to just take a deep breath and smile. I'm guessing folks on this site have experienced similar situations.
Last edited by dbmod; 03/26/1302:09 AM. Reason: Reference not recommended nor allowed
W said she wants space. Cuts me off emotionally and physically at that point. Not even a gradual decline. Like falling off a cliff.
Surprisingly common. I think they do this to help themselves move on, and (as my W told me) they also think it helps the LBS to move on. It's very hard for the LBS to see the sudden change though.
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Not sure it is necessary to classify my wife as WAW or MLC or just simply fallen out of love or grown apart. Don't think that matters.
You're right, the approach is the same regardless. I think a lot of us spent too much time trying to "diagnose" our spouse when we should have been DB'ing instead.
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I just want to learn better behaviors, set goals, be patient, GAL, and start baby steps to growing closer to my wife again to give our marriage a chance to survive.
All good stuff!
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I have learned to take what my W says with a grain of salt but admit sometimes things she says get under my skin since BD.
Sometimes it will, but outwardly just show PMA and act "as if" everything is fine.
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W kept saying "you know, that friend of yours" to me. Of course, I didn't want to make a scene with our friends and never brought it up to wife but "that friend of yours" was the best man in our wedding. Of course she knew his name.
Maybe not. Have you seen any signs that she's starting perimenopause? My W is in it and her memory has really suffered as a result. She still has a good memory, but sometimes she'll just "lose" something like that. At first I was thinking "how in the world could she forget this when she remembers X, Y and Z" but I've come to learn that's the nature of it.
My thought was maybe she didn't want to use his name for privacy reasons. Depending on the story I might not want to tell a something and use a person't name.
And we all begin to forget things as we get older. Part of the price we pay for getting older.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Hi VG, welcome aboard. I’m glad you showed up here! I agree the fine people on this board offer the most uplifting support.
It does sound to me like you've been doing your homework and have a good grip on how to proceed. Be prepared though, it can be quite a roller coaster ride no matter what you do!
How long has W been moved out of the house? What is the duration you agreed upon?
What is your contact like? Is it only kids/business, or is there more? Who initiates?
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
AS and labug, thanks for your replies. Thanks for reminding me to consider alternatives to what may be going on with my W. I tend to lock in on a reason for behavior without knowing what is really in W's head. Also, as AS and others have stated in other threads is to not believe what the WAS spouse says
Regarding perimenopause, maybe. I took a look at some of the symptoms and she might have a couple. She hasn't said anything about this so I'm not sure.
Regarding forgetfullness as we get older I agree that can definitely be part of it. She has exhibited forgetfullness/brain lock before.
Thanks for the reply and support and pointing me to this forum.
W moved out of the house 10 days ago. We agreed to a 3 month duration. Funny thing is I've seen her every day since then for various reasons. I think today might be the first day I will not see her. But she did text me earlier today.
Our planned contact is we will see each other 3 days per week (MC, family dinner one day per week, and a date night[her words]). I have indicated that I will not call or text outside of these 3 days (unless necessary for kid logistics). I have actually been doing that since September, not initiating calls or texts. Only replying and not pursuing.
We are splitting time with daughter. Our son will stay mostly with me and some with W. This is the tough part. Painful not to have the kids in the house under these circumstances. Tears me up.
If there is a positive to the S it allows me to get on with GAL, soul searching, thinking about what I want, doing stuff for me and kids. Just time to work on myself. I think it is good for the W also, regardless of what the outcome is. We'll see how I feel as we get further into this S.
In addition to missing the kids, another hard part of our sitch is the way my W treats me like a friendly neighbor. I just feel nothing from her towards me during our conversations (which I keep light and don't dive into R and M). Not sure if the S will increase the spark/connection/feelings my W has towards me. Time will tell
This summer my W's demeanor towards me made a noticeable shift. She became distant and really indifferent towards me. Prior to this I thought we had a pretty good relationship. No affairs, substance abuse or other seriously detrimental issues with us. Thought for the most part we communicated fairly well, although room for improvement by both of us. I don't think either of us did a good job of opening up with our feelings/emotions. Particularly me, while I look back I think I played it safe and did not want to rock the boat. I wanted to provide a life for my W and kids where they didn't have to worry about anything. Boy was I wrong. Also, we did butt heads on spending and money management - not frequently but we definitely were not synced up in that regard.
After noticeable change in demeanor it took about one month of me asking what was going on and getting a response of "everything is fine". I finally reached through to W in September when she told me she felt no connection to me but it was nothing I had done nor was there anything I could do. There were some other ILYB like statements. She indicated that she would need some independence and space from me. We agreed immediately that we both needed IC and would seek MC when she felt up to it.
Fortunately for me I have a Family Assistance program through work and was able to immediately (on a Saturday night shortly after the bomb talk) connect with a counselor by phone who gave me very good advice to back off, give space, no touching or pushing for answers. So my pleading and begging were very minimal immediately after bomb. Although I did pressurize her on 3 occasions in September and October and W told me so.
Initially W indicated her feelings had nothing to do with any of my actions (or inactions). By gently asking questions here and there the first month after bomb I was able to get answers from her by early October that she was unhappy with our communications and unhappy with our marriage - particularly intimate communications. She also indicated some of our money disagreements. She also indicated that she didn't feel spiritually connected. Shortly thereafter, we started MC and have continued since. I have since learned that she had resentments and reservations about us building up for at least 3 years. Looking back, I now recognize some of the statements she made to me that were cries for help. I pushed those cries away. W has indicated that she should have pushed these statements with me further.
I have just finished DR and plan to reread and create a list of action oriented goals. I have read 5LL . [*] DR and [*] books and the DB forums have been very informative and helpful. I think as a result of the books and my IC and reaching out for support from some close friends I have received good advice on how to behave. These have also been great outlets for trying out things to say and venting. Therefore have not been pushing for answers or reassurance since October, not looking for hugs or other touching, found patience I didn't know I had, and learned a whole bunch about myself and our relationship.
During these last few months I feel like we have made good strides in communications, unfortunately, talking about the relationship is for the most part off limits so I can't practice what I've learned. I do feel during this time that the wall around W has risen (she has become more distant but still friendly). I have not attempted to invade this space and W has indicated that she appreciates that.
In addition to DB forums I have also read ebook "Survice Your Wife's Midlife Crisis" and with this information I am more convinced by wife is going through a transition. Although I have moved past labeling my wife, what I've read in "Survive Your Wife's ..." and the DB MLC and WAW forums really ring true for me. Just not sure how to label this situation and don't really care at this point. But understanding MLC and WAW has calmed me down.
Since the BD I had been doing better and felt we were making small improvements. Then in December I noticed a change in demeanor (more distance although communicated day-to-day nicely). Also, from the "connection" side of our relationship there was really no change since the BD. We existed like friendly neighbors. Later in December I started a conversation about us to apologize for what was happening and my past communications (really, bad listening skills). Felt I needed to make a heartfelt apology and I was probably hoping for a breakthrough. During this conversation W indicated to me that she would like to start a trial separation. Strangely, I felt relief that she opened up with me about this. She had already found a place for a 3 month rental. We talked to our MC about this and I guess if there is anything good about this is my W did share this with me within about 2 weeks of coming to this conclusion. Not holding in her feelings for a longer duration as she had done prior to BD.
We are now about 10 days into our separation.
We are in agreement wiht custody of the kids, finances, duration of the separation, rules of communications and getting together. She also wants to continue counseling, one of our weekly activities, and a "date night" (her words not mine).
I have rambled on but will make a few final points:
- There doesn't seem to be any indication of an EA or PA. Just nothing suspicious to suspect that and I don't think W would do that. She once talked a friend out of an EA turning into a PA. We have talked about it since BD and I believe what she has said. I don't feel any need to snoop. - Seems like symptoms of MLC - wants freedom and independence, thinks the kids are resilient and will be fine, doing more happy hours and drinking more (was never previously much of a drinker), has told me she'd like freedoms of her college days, paying attention to appearance and buy new clothes, indicated to me that she is on a spiritual journey and needs to find herself, the history of us has been revised from her standpoint. - Fortunately, has NOT abondonded the kids - Slept separately since October - Have had very little physical contact althought about 3 weeks ago she started giving me a hug here and there. Not hugs like we once did but light, friendly hugs. - I'm no longer giving too much thought to her actions or statements to me as I had a tendency to analyze the death out of everything. I have gotten better at that and instead am focusing on me and the kids. - Believe I am doing good things to take care of myself by improving my spirituality, exercising, understanding myself and my feelings, not blaming myself, and journaling. Just haven't slept very well in last 5 months. I have always been quite active anyway - runner, hiker, skier, biker. - No sexual issues and she has confirmed this (although no sex since BD). - Miss so many little things - our many private jokes and silliness, frequent texts and phone calls, running errands together, our walks, sleeping side by side always in contact, going out to eat spur of the moment, non sexual touching, taking about future retirement plans. Everything literally stopped overnight. - Both wife and I receiving IC and MC - I was a complete waste case at working during September and October. Doing much better now but still distracted mentally. - The separation is very painful and spending some of the time without the kids is excruciating. - I think I am doing well with detaching - I sincerely believe we are right for each other and very compatible. Right now W does not think that but I believe deep inside her she knows we are right for each other. She just couldn't have been faking things for 20+ years. But how can I know what is in her head.
For the pain I'm going through I believe it is worse for W. Believe she does not have full trust for me and fears falling back to "old relationship" if we were to reconcile (only speculating here). I do love her wholeheartedly and want to be there for her, have compassion for her, and understand things from her standpoint. I am patient and willing to take the time necessary. Also, I've remained positive around her and since early days after BD have not shown myself feeling down or saddened.
Internally, I'm afraid that she might not give enough time for herself to pass through this transition in her life before doing something drastic (an affair or hitting me with divorce papers).
Since the initial relief of W telling me about S I have felt much turmoil and fear but of course not shown this to her. I do feel these feelings are not overriding as I am detaching more and more. I do support this plan but naturally not comfortable about it. It at least gets us out of the stasis we were in and have to admit it is a bit more comfortable around house now that S has begun. I plan to give her the space she has requested and ony communicate as we have agreed during the S. I also have a positive attitude and have always been a glass half-full guy.
I know I can hold it together but do have moments of tremendous pain and crying silently.
Tnanks to all for reading this long post.
Last edited by dbmod; 03/26/1302:11 AM. Reason: Reference not recommended nor allowed
VG, I think you are doing a great job. It sounds like you have really done your homework, and that you have the patience that will be required to wait this out/turn things around. It does sound like your wife is going through a mid life transition/crises of some sort.
The way I look at it, our wife's stuck by us for 20+ years, the least we can do is give them the time they need to figure themselves out.
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Internally, I'm afraid that she might not give enough time for herself to pass through this transition in her life before doing something drastic (an affair or hitting me with divorce papers).
I had all the same fears. It's been 13 months since she started distancing herself from me, and she is still here in our home and there is no affair. Don't waste time and energy worrying about what "might" happen. If it happens you can deal with it then. You can't control what she does. (not directly anyway, but your actions can and do have some effect)
Just stay on course. Detach, and work on yourself and your life. Resist the urge to have Relationship talks, or ask for reassurances. Give her space, but be there for her.
What did you think of Marshall's latest book? I've read 3-4 of his earlier books. Anything new in it?
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
