I knew better...but I did it anyway...

[knittedscarff]

-->There are no shortage of victims in this. I think that we all are. I've made choices and you've made choices. <---

The main thing is to ask what do you want to write back to your H? Follow your instinct and you won't regret it.

But if you wanted my advice, the response would look something like this:

Dear H:
I already have my preparations for tomorrow's sonagram. Thank you for your offer. Let's discuss the birth plan over email later in the week.

Best, SB

Keep it short and informal. Do not engage with his crazy. It might be your pregnancy brain - we've all be there!!! - but that email is in no way sweet or nice. Is your husband an alcoholic or other addictions? It would explain the wildness he exhibits.

Nevertheless, read the part I pulled out. No one in your situation is a victim. The fact that he sees himself as one is a major major red flag.

Your husband should be sending you nice emails. Not this clap trap. Try to surround yourself with positIve energy. You can get through this.

[keep_going]

SB -

I think I am going to go against the grain here and I hope you don't take my comments the wrong way. I support you, I understand exactly what you are going through and I want nothing but the best for you AND YOUR KIDS.

Along those lines, here are my thoughts...

This email sounds very nice and sane to me and it is making me wonder if he has other motives. He knows that baby is coming in 7 weeks and all of the sudden he is interested in him.

Detach. Never mind about his motives - those are his and you have no control over them. Focus on what YOU think is the right thing to think and do.

Before I post the email..I would like to say that all the things in this email are, of course, not true and his idea of what is happening.

This ^^^^ is a very bold statement. I would humbly encourage you to think it through. Do any of us really hold "the truth"? Consider that perhaps he is speaking based on what HE feels? Isn't that in line with "His idea of what is happening?
Would it be more productive and helpful to try to put yourself in his shoes and understand a bit of his perspective?

I will say that I do not want him to be at the sonogram or the birth, because I do NOT feel comfy with those arrangements. That is true. I am concerned that he is all of the sudden interested in the baby.

What would be wrong with him finally seeing the light and showing interest in his baby? Wouldn't you rather have an involved father for them? Isn't that, in the end in the baby's best interest regardless of what happens to your M?

"SB-
He is not even born yet, but I can't stop worrying about my relationship with my son.

I don't think you realize how important it is for me but for him too, to have a full and loving relationship with his father. I know you are hurting and upset and angry with me. I totally get and understand that. We must, however, make sacrifices for the good of our children and this is one that you HAVE to make. I acknowledge that I said some awful things about him when we first found out you were pregnant. I regret them tremendously and feel guilty all the time for having said them. When I said them, however, things were extremely difficult and I said them out of fear.

I want desperately to be involved in all aspects of his birth (appointments, sonograms and actual birth). I realize that it is probably awkward and difficult but it is not something that we can ignore. I think we need to have a discussion, probably face to face, where we can discuss this and come to some sort of a compromise."

Honestly, I don't see anything bad with any of what he says here ^^^. On the contrary, I perceive honesty and vulnerability on his part. He is owning to his mistakes about his reaction when he found out about the baby. IDK, I would think that is a good thing (at least for the baby).

I also see it as productive that he wants to establish a dialogue with you about this and wants to work with you. I also have to agree, that even as bad as he has behaved he does have the same rights as a parent as you do... Yes, this sounds harsh but it's the truth.

Look, I totally understand where you are coming from. I WAS THERE, but you need to really put your feelings aside and think about the baby. You will HAVE to have a relationship with this man AS THE FATHER OF YOUR KIDS for the rest of your life. You have a choice as to how smooth or difficult it will be. He now wants to be there for his kids, why punish him? Is it that he is only allowed to have a R with them if he comes back with you?
Please, SB, dig deep. Find your motivations for your actions. I know in my case, I was very angry, I felt he wanted to get away with everything and I often considered not letting my H be part of certain events or activities. NOT GOOD. I am glad I have been able to put aside my own feelings for the sake of our kids. THEY deserve at least that from me...

"I am his parent too and just because you are pregnant with him doesn't give you the right to alienate me or exclude me from everything. I was supposed to be the one who bought his crib and dresser. Why, if you knew that, would you make other arrangements?"

I agree that this ^^^^ is aggressive and attacking. But if you read between the lines, he feels alienated and excluded. Is that a valid feeling? From what you have shared with us, I'd say it is... IF YOU WERE IN HIS SHOES, would you feel any different than him? Would you be ok with it?

"I think they have been unnecessarily involved in too much. As a result, this situation has been more traumatic for them than it ever should have been. "

"Please consider letting me come to the sonogram on Monday. Please also consider having a discussion about what our compromise and arrangement might look like. I know it's going to be hard for you but we ALL will be better for having done it.
H"

This ^^^^^ I am 100% in agreement with. My humble opinion is that BOTH of you have let your older Ds see and hear way more than what they should re. your marital problems and each others behaviors. I agree that he failed miserably in keeping things away from them, but I feel that perhaps you have also had conversations with them where they have been made aware of too many details or things he has done to you. You both need to be the adults and try to keep the hurtful and nasty details of your marriage to yourselves. If he won't, at least you can. Be the bigger person here.

Yes, you should absolutely be there for your kids and speak to them about their feelings, help them process them and help them understand the situation. Yet it's not ok for them to know details of what and who does what, or how much each one hurts the other and how.

I am sorry if this comes across as harsh... I don't meant to. I say this because I do see an opportunity here to establish a dialogue with your H (or at least try, since he seems to NOW be more reasonable and open to cooperation), and try to work together to be supportive to your kids and show them that even though you are not together, you can at least be civil to each other and share in welcoming this new baby into this world. Wouldn't that set a good example for your older Ds?

Now, as far as the comment about forbidding the kids to see him this weekend...I am away for the weekend and my mom is there with them. It is MY weekend to be with them and I told them that if dad does want to see you he will have to wait until next weekend.

Look, this is your weekend, yes. So you do have every right to say no. Yet, is that kind? Does it REALLY hurt you in any way if he sees them? Could it perhaps be your hurt or anger motivating you to say no? And more importantly, isn't it better for the girls to see their dad more? You have repeatedly complained that he has not spent enough time with them. Here is an opportunity to facilitate that and it won't affect you, since you won't even be here.
Finally, from a purely practical (and even selfish) POV, you will find yourself in the opposite side of the coin someday and wouldn't you want him to show goodwill towards you when the tables are turned and let you see the kids on a special occasion even if it was his turn?

Also, as far as not including him in any decisions...he has not asked until now. It was only last month that he asked to come to an appt and I orginally said maybe but changed my mind after all the nasty texts I received last week.

If he is not behaving respectfully towards you, then yes, by all means, I agree that you don't need to put up with him. That to me, is a healthy boundary-enforcement reaction.

Yet, if he starts behaving in a respectful manner, why not include him? You still love him, right? You still want him back, right? Remember - keep the road home paved and smooth...

Im very confused. I find myself, once again, thinking in my mind that maybe it was my fault. BUT..I know it wasnt. The comment about mistreatment baffles me. If he EVER felt that way he never told me???

It makes me so sad to hear him say that I am a good person, he loves me, and that will make someone else very happy one day. I must say, as crazy as he has acted..this email sounded very sane to me. Although, he never says anything about what he has done other than he "made some choices".

All this ^^^^ to me, is you going back to HIM. What does he thing, why, why, why... Stop focusing on him. To me, this email was NOT about your R at all, it was about a parenting issue. It was about him wanting to be part of his childrens' lives now. Please, don't make it about your R, as hard as it sounds. If you focus on the kids and making the decisions that are best for them, your confusion about his email will disappear.

I dont want to alienate him from his kids, but they make their own choices and as far as the baby, I feel like he gave up his rights to the birth and the naming, etc when he walked out on me. For 32 weeks he has not cared and now all of the sudden he takes and interest? I cannot help but to think this note was to sweet talk me because the birth is near???

Wow... here comes the real 2x4. This ^^^^ to me sounds all like resentment and bitterness. You claim you don't want to alienate him, BUT...
He did not give up any rights yet. He made mistakes, yes. He has not been a good dad since he left, yes. Yet he has every right to change his mind, make amends and try to fix his actions. It's not your job or your place to say if he gave up any rights to his fatherhood. Like it or not, he is and will always be their father.
He doesn't need to sweet talk you or convince you to let him see his kids. It's his right.

Why, unless he really means it, would he basically say that he wants me to move on? Why if Im a great person and he has fond memories is he still choosing to leave me forever? Also, is it normal for a WAS to be nice sometimes and write nice things?

SB, stay on your sandbox. He is NOT talking here about your R... We've said it before. Stop asking why. Not productive for YOU.

One more thing..we dont need to meet face to face because we already have an agreement. The kids see him once a week and every other weekend if they want to see him. The decisions on the baby will be made after he is born. Why do we need to talk about it at all? He is actively seeing OW and living another life. I even wonder if she helped him compose this email?

Good that you have an agreement re. custody of the girls. Again, he is asking you for a FAVOR and let him see them this weekend. It's your choice to do so or not.
As for the baby, why are you guys going to wait until he is born? That is a terrible decision that will only bring more tension and anxiety to both of you. Why not settle it beforehand?

Why do you need to talk about it AT ALL??? Maybe because he is the father????
Look, as much as it hurts and suK that he is with OW, he still has rights. You know my sitch. The hardest part of it is having an OW being part of our children's lives, yet we cannot control it. And in the end, isn't it better for the kids to have a R with their dad even if there is OW, than not have any R with him at all?

SB - again I am sorry if I am harsh. I have to tell you like I see it. I just want what is best for everyone and I just see a lot of resentment, pain and anger in you THAT I HAD MYSELF when I was in your sitch. I am happy that I was able to put it aside and let my H be a part of the kids' lives by my own choice and not forced by our fighting or a judge. In the end, it's what is best for my kids.

((((((SB))))))


SB
[/quote]

[littleGTO]

HI, SB,

I'm not surprised your H is wanting to come around now that the baby's birth is closer. You have to decide the boundaries you are comfortable with regarding your son. If you don't feel comfortable w H at the birth maybe he could see he shortly after if you feel okay with that.

I disagree w some of what keep_going said. But, this could be the window of opportunity for you and H to re-establish some sort of congenial R. It IS better for your kids to have a good R with their dad, but I agree he has done NOTHING to convince his Ds that he is worthy of their time/love.

But, your S is starting from scratch, so to speak. Your H has the opportunity to make changes. However, I hope he realizes it is your D's that will remember this time. It would be hard on them if suddenly their dad is coming around just for the baby.

I also think you've done an amazing job putting out fires all over the place where your H has involved the girls in very inappropriate conversations. You do NOT need to take any ownership of the over-involvement they've had in the details of your M. You deserve a gold medal for what you've dealt with!

SB, whatever you decide is okay. You need to feel good about what you're doing.

Question--if your H started coming around due to son's birth and this led to him realizing what he's missing, would you still want him back? You love him, I know, but could you really get past all that he's put you through? Really think about this.

(((((HUGS))))))

[job]

Are you okay Sweetbriar?

Has anyone heard from her?

[JuneReN]

(((SB)))

Thinking of you, give us an update....

[littleGTO]

I was just wondering about you too, SB! Everything okay??

[bustingout]

I hope you are ok SB (((( ))))

[keep_going]

SB,

How are you? It's been a while and we are all hoping you are well and can post to let us know.

We know you are going through a lot and it's better to do so with as much support as possible and you have a lot of people here that care for you.

((((((((SB)))))))))))

[Sweetbriar]

I took a little break, but am back! Thanks to those who were asking! Its nice to know that you care and are concerned! I just got to where I was spending a lot of time on the computer and not with my kids...so I wanted to slow down and take a break from the madness of my stich, although it doesnt go away

KeepGoing..wanted to make sure I thanked you for your long post a few weeks back. I appreciate the time you took to share your experience and give me advice on the email my H wrote. I will say that I ended up NOT letting him attend the sonogram and we really havent spoken since. He did ask that day for a picture, which I sent him and he later told the kids that he cannot stop looking at it. Funny though, for someone who acted so much like he cared about the pregnancy in the email, I havent heard a word from him about it since..nothing. He hasnt even asked how Im feeling or anything.

I did have a beautiful baby shower this past weekend with over 60 people! My friends did a brilliant job of putting this together and I felt so special. I got TONS AND TONS of stuff for baby boy (who I still havent named!) and officially feel like Im ready for him to come. Less than 5 weeks now! Im feeling very achy and tired..but its just the lack of sleep at night tossing and turning from being pregnant. Im still working part time everyday and of course, running my house and taking care of my girls. It really is hard with no help and Im sure it will get harder before it gets easier.

H did know I had a shower becuase he asked the girls if I was having one and when. Weird? This weekend was my weekend with the girls and he asked them Friday, Saturday and Sunday to do something with him. He even begged "please" at one point. My D14 told him that she had plans this weekend but he was consistant in asking. He also asked Monday (the kids had a teacher workday) and they, again, denied him. He will get them tonight for dinner and is buying them fish to match their rooms?? Whatever... Is it normal for H to have totally alienated the kids at first but now to be asking to spend a lot of time with them? My thought is even though he is still very much with OW, maybe life is getting normal with her and SOME of the high is wearing off...so now he can contact and hang with his kids more? Any thoughts on this?

I really dont have expectations of him but he texted D14 to ask if I got a lot of stuff at the shower. Of course, he cannot text me and ask me stuff like that...and it eases his mind when D tells him that we did get a lot. He responded "cool" and that was it. I think that it has made it so much easier for him to walk away knowing that I have always taken care of most things around the house and that if I do have a problem I have a lot of friends and family to support me. Makes it easy for him to not look back.

Last week when he got the girls on Wed night, he walked to the door, knocked, and walked back to his car...not even waiting for anyone to answer. I think this is strange that he expects to come visit the baby when he is born, but yet, cannot even face me at the door step when he picks up our kids?? Im not sure what this was/is about?? I also got a nasty text last week from him about something that I wrote to a friend on FB. H does NOT have a FB but I had commented on a friends picture she posted about her H being a great dad. All I wrote was "you are very lucky" and someone saw this and told H. He texted me "did you really tell friend that she and her kids are so lucky to have a great dad? OMFG..scummy as hell". I was appalled by this text! This guy is a great dad and he was also H's Bestfriend before he left me. I innocently posted this and quite frankly can post what I want.

I dont deserve texts about how Im feeling or I needed anything when it snowed here (like maybe shoveling the driveway so I dont slip while Im 8 months pregnant) but a FB post sure warranted a text. I just dont get him at all.

Nothing more has been said about baby's arrival and Im not bringing it up. It will be here sooner than I know and Im scared but know I will handle this just fine. I have come this far...

I still sometimes get in my obsessive mode and think about them a lot. What they are doing and how great it must be with her for him to have given up his whole life for her. But I have also come to the realization that my H will probably be one that doesnt come home. I just think that 6 months he has been gone have indicated that he is done. I may have more hope had he been coming around a bit or at least talking to me here and there..but we have NO CONTACT unless its a quick text here and there...nothing else. He seems content with OW. He was seen out with her a few weeks ago in the local bar by a friend of mine. That same night, my other friends H saw them out and talked to H at the bar...apparently OW told this friend that "H is having a really hard time with all of this"....really??? Of course she is feeling sorry for him. My friends H responded that "everyone is having a hard time with this". I spent a week being upset that my friends H even gave my H and OW his time...that he should have ignored them...but I know that certain situations are hard and difficult and this guy didnt know how to react that he was seeing H with his OW. H really has no shame about taking her to our local town...

My kids, just last night, brought up some of the beginning nights when H first started going back and forth to his parents when I first found out. I guess D14 was cleaning her room with her friend and her friend asked some questions about how is started. It triggered my Ds memories and she talked to me about them last night. She said that she remembers those nights so clearly and how dad didnt care about anything...how is was emotionless and how he carried his stupid orange bag back and forth to grandmas and back. Both my Ds remember words he said to me and actions he took to leave...this, Im afraid, will always be in their minds and it made me soooo sad.

On a happier note, I have spent a lot of time getting baby's room together and now to organize all the stuff we got. Its been fun. I sometimes start thinking how sad it is that my H has had no part in all of this and that one day he may look back and realize that he missed out on the whole pregnancy...but its his loss and Im thankful that my girls are enjoying this with me. Its strange to think that he has been with OW for so long now...I really did believe that they would break it off sooner than this...it only leads me to think that this romantic affair is starting to be normal life for him....like a real relationship and that breaks my heart still. But Im still moving forward..because I have to and I know one day I will look back and know that I went straight through my hell with no pills, or affairs or alcohol. He had all those numbing tools and I didnt...and I cant help but to think I will be a better person to have come out of it raw. I will one day be happier for it and he may still be spinning in his own hell because he still hasnt faced his true issues...

[Raine]

Hey SB! I came looking for you, knowing your due date is coming up fast. I just finished reading this thread and sorry to hear things are not any better with your H, but glad you are holding it together so well. My H won't talk about the pregnancy or baby. It just brings up too much guilt for him. I want him there for the delivery because I don't want to have any regrets or for him to have them either. I do like the idea of no cell phones that was mentioned. But me and my H don't talk about anything R wise or OWs or make any future plans. I really don't know where he will be at when the time comes. I have zero expectations at this point.