I see your point. From what she has told me she won't be "dropping by" and doesn't want me doing it to her. If we are to contact each other, we must first do it through our phones, so calling or texting before we stop by.
So I have decided to take my "rose colored" glasses off and see my relationship for what it is and has been. After some very hard conversations with very good friends I see that I have put a lot into my marriage with my W putting very little into the relationship except her financial contribution. For about 4 years now she has put all of her time and energy into her career, and while I still love her and want to make this work, I realize that she has benefited more from this relationship than I have. I was planning to have a conversation with her about this when I make the final move and here are some things I was going to talk to her about.
1.) I am not free labor. Stop calling me just to have me come over and fix your problems (internet/router not working, cell phone not working, etc..)
2.) I am tired of you having your monthly mental breakdowns and blaming me for all of your current problems. Stop calling me about these and deal with them yourself. You wanted to be separated now you get to deal with your own problems on your own. There is a long story with this that starts back in September where she will say something for a few weeks and then the next month she will have a break down and nit pick everything I do. I know I'm not perfect but her tirades are down right ridiculous.
3.) Stop using my heart as your personal yo-yo and I'm not a doormat. Pretty much goes along with number 2 where she get's my hopes up only to have a breakdown and re-nig on anything she said before, usually at the last minute.
4.) No "stopping by", call, or text and we can make plans from there but I don't want you in/near my place unless I invite you.
I think that covers pretty much everything I see on my end. I'm just tired of being treated like crap by her. There are certain things that I feel a W should give in a relationship and she did at first till she started her career and that is when she focused more on work and less on our relationship and I want those core things back in my new relationship. Whether it's with her, or with out her.
Please let me know what you think. Planning on having this conversation on March 2nd at dinner.
I think you've let your resentments totally take over. There comes a point in everyone's sitch when the LBS starts letting their resentment take over and they start thinking in absolutes like the WAS. Suddenly they see "clarity" and the LBS is the one suffering while the WAS was all at fault. You're at that point now especially since you're listening to your friends instead of people on here who have gone through what you have.
Start owning up to your own sh*t through what she has told you and start changing for the better. No one said you had to act like a doormat. That was your choice to be like that. You don't have to go the other way and be a total d*ck either. You have the choice to be better and you can. Once you are, you'll be able to handle her in a more healthy way rather than in a position of anger.
Believe me, we've all been through what you have. Do you want to be "right" or do you want to be M'd? Your feelings of having to be right stem from your pride and from you being hurt. You're better than that.
I can guarantee that if you have that conversation with her, you might as well kiss your M goodbye.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Well that's why I brought it here first before I talked to her. Honestly I love every chance I have with her to show her that I am a new and changed person but I don't want her to think that it's okay to play games. How do I approach that? I still want to save my M, but I won't lie the closer it gets to the big move the harder it is.
So, how should I handle the "guideline" talk? I think there should be some guidelines so we know where we stand. Am I right in thinking this?
Also, those friends want me to stay in my marriage and work it out, but also asked me what I wanted out of the marriage. They told me that this whole time I have been more worried about what my W wanted out of me and didn't put any energy or focus into what I wanted as well. I have put her and her careers on a pedestal and gave up a lot so that she could pursue her dreams. She never gave up anything for me.
"I love every chance I have with her to show her that I am a new and changed person"
You're not getting it. You're not changing for her, you're changing because you know it makes you a better man.
"but I don't want her to think that it's okay to play games."
That's part of your warped perception again. She's not playing games. She just didn't want to be married to you.
"I still want to save my M, but I won't lie the closer it gets to the big move the harder it is.
Because you haven't learned to cope in a healthy way. You have to get back your self-esteem and self-worth so that the move doesn't affect you as much.
"So, how should I handle the "guideline" talk? I think there should be some guidelines so we know where we stand. Am I right in thinking this?"
No. You're trying to control another person's actions. You're trying to teach her a lesson, etc. when she's your W and not a child. The guidelines are basically what you will tolerate for yourself. The only way they work is if you have leverage, and in this case, you don't. Control yourself and not her.
"She never gave up anything for me."
Never speak in absolutes. That statement is total BS and you know it. There were times that she did. There is no such thing as 'never'. That's how the WAS convinces themselves that they were 'never' happy.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I did start these changes for her to save my marriage but I continue them because they are making me a better person. I even have a goal for myself, I entered into the Tough Mudder competition (google/youtube it), to prove that I can overcome that obstacle course to myself and no one else. And yes, before you question me it will be nice to have the bragging right of saying "I did that. It was tough but I overcame it." I still want to show her I am a different person than what she remembers. Not because of her, but because I made the choice to continue these changes for myself. I think she thinks I made these for her, which in the beginning I did, but now I have kept them going for myself because they are important to me.
The only reason I think she is playing games is because she will say something to me one minute and then at the last second change her mind on me. At one point she didn't want me moving out to Colorado (last week actually) and this was after I hired my replacement for my current position, already set in motion my internal transfer to a new position in Colorado, and set up the date for the movers. That's a lot of peoples lives that she was just willing to disregard all because she got anxious. I do see what you are saying, though.
What I meant by it being harder relates a little to what is above. I do not like surprises and I do not know which wife is going to show up from day to day. I don't want to (possibly) have a date or friends over to my place and have her knock on my door demanding I do something crazy at the last minute all because she's nervous or anxious. It wouldn't look good for her, and she's a good person. There is also the scenario where we start walking the dogs together, or maybe going out on dates. That would be a good surprise. So I am more nervous about any surprises I might find when the move is started and completed along with the typical stress of packing everything up, moving 1500 miles, and starting a semi-new position (I got a small promotion which may lead to a bigger promotion by the end of March).
As for my self esteem and self worth, I feel that I am confident enough in those areas to continue to work through this. Do I still have areas that I need to work on? Of course I do, I am not perfect, never will be but that doesn't mean I will stop these changes. I plan to continue these changes.
I will nix the "guideline" talk and just enjoy a nice dinner with her. I see your point on that one as well, plus it will be less stressful for both of us and maybe even open up a new doorway for us to explore.
One nice thing that I have learned from this is that we did put her and her career on a pedestal, so we focused on those things and I did put some of my dreams on hold for her while we struggled to find stability in an area (This will be the 10th move in just under 6 years). Now, I am free to pursue whatever I want to my heart's content. So when I get to Colorado I plan on taking up rock climbing again, along with training for the Tough Mudder. I also have always wanted to teach highschool physics so I will also be looking into a program nearby and see what courses I would have to take to complete that degree.
MrBond, you have been a voice of clarity for me and I want to thank you for taking the time for me and my relationship. I appreciate your insight and helping to keep me on a path of recovery and possibly saving my marriage.
The only reason I think she is playing games is because she will say something to me one minute and then at the last second change her mind on me.
She's not playing games. WAS's are almost always confused and in turmoil even if they look calm and cool on the outside. They say and do things that are contradictory, they're not doing it intentionally, it's just a reflection on what's going on inside and it's why the DB rule says not to believe anything they say and only half of what they do.
So here's an update to my sitch. On 3/8 WAS asked me to move in with her for a trial live in. On 3/16 she asked me to move out, her reason "I am definitely sure of what I want and I want a fresh start all around." on 3/17 we went for a consultation with a marriage counselor. According to her, her biggest issue now is that she doesn't want to be physically intimate which is one of her primary love languages. The finances are coming along, my weight is not an issue anymore as I look and feel like a new man (I'm wearing clothes I haven't worn since we first started dating!! From a 6XL shirt to a 2XL shirt), but she says she likes her privacy and being independent and doesn't see me in the picture as her husband in the future so she's making her decision to move on. The counselor has the same ideals as the DR, he doesn't care how we feel now, he wants to find a solution to get pass the problems we are having now to develop new feelings and those are the feelings he's concerned about. The only problem is that she doesn't want to talk about her personal intimacy issues with me in the room, and she also wants to talk to a woman vs. the guy we saw and she doesn't feel ready to talk about them now.
Now here is where I could use some help navigating the waters, she wants to be friends and we have been doing things together, for instance she called me up yesterday to help her out with a situation at her store (she's a grocery store manager) being the Easter Bunny and today we had an Easter Dinner together. We also attend church together at the same time (although we drive separately and still live in different apartments). How should I handle this? Should I continue being a good friend to her? Or the other option I have toyed with is (after I get my things out of her place, the movers put some of my boxes over at her place and vice versa) going completely dark. During our encounters I have been doing a better job of not bringing up our past and just enjoying the moment although sometimes there are questions I just want answered and before I can filter them they come out. I AM getting better at this but it is a lot harder in practice than just saying.
Some advice would be really appreciated to help me navigate these times. I am also going to go see that counselor by myself. I told her that if she wanted to come she was welcome and I would tell her the date/time of our meetings.
