My wife wants to separate

[FloydMan]

You said it KLB…revisionist history is par for the course. It seems so surreal but it is for justification and validation. It is bizarre to be sure. I have learned not to debate this stuff anymore with my W in recent weeks. Sometimes it is so absurd you really have to hold back. I too have heard things from common friends. Petty stuff, like why I did not take my D-10 very much to gymnastics very much in the past 3 years as it is only 2 minutes away. Well, she seems to forget that the D-14 has had Fastpitch on the same nights across town 40 minutes away fighting traffic...and I also coached which she supported. She would drop D-10 off then go for coffee with the “girls”. No real participation. That is just one example of being in her own world. Some things are just outright change of history, like saying I kicked her out of the bedroom….she left the bedroom on her own. It is hard to bite the tongue, but I am getting better at it. Deep inside, I think they know they are off the mark, so instead of debating with them let them truly hear themselves and the absurdity.
Niceguy, they all call it ‘home’. I think my W does as habit more than anything. My W also not long ago made a point of “being so far into it” with reference to the legal process and that the kids already know we are S. They do get so far gone they can’t turn back. Telling her parents took her 3.5 months. It took her over month to take her ring off but they take some big and some small steps to get it done. I wish there were a sign of doubt in my W for my sitch.

[SM34]

KLB yes you are right. She has rewritten the last 4 years of our marriage. She says it was all bad for her when there is no way it was. I have some wonderfulmemories,if those years including having our beautiful baby daughter etc.. How do they block this out?

[FloydMan]

I have learned it is a defence and coping mechanism that goes along with the anger. It helps to justify when they can throw blame and ease their guilt. Your W knows there were good times but she is in a fog that won’t allow her to see it. Similar in that your work and the hours and dedication to provide for your family gets lost. Looks like we both missed the emotional connection we needed with our W’s, but we cannot take all the blame. We were doing what we thought responsible. Neither W really it seems communicated with us on that and when someone else comes along and preys upon their vulnerability (the OM was a police Detective in the area) it’s too late. We were doing what we thought was responsible and the right things to do as fathers and providers. Seems some mistakes aren’t forgiven.

[KLB]

When I look at it, my W and my problems are all borne from insecurities - on both our parts. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to provide well enough. I was afraid I she would leave me, as all my previous relationships did. She was afraid she wasn't sexy enough or that a man could love her for being her self.

The saddest thing is that we made our fears come true, by not working with each other to help on another feel secure and supported. Because we were only vulnerable with ourselves and not each other, the trust broke down.

Rebuilding that trust is at the core of the DB process. Until she stops revising history, that can't really happen.

Again - you're lucky that the OM is such a complete douche. That does help her see that Prince Charming isn't a reality. But I imagine she will suffer a bit of a backlash toward you. The fantasy she based her actions on is proving not to be true. This will make her a bit defensive. You are (in her mind) the source of the problem. So when she feels disappointed in her OM, she may take it out on you for forcing her into the situation to begin with.

Screwed up thinking? Yeah. But typical from what I can tell. So just be ready for it and don't react. Just respond with quiet support.

I genuinely find that thinking of my W as being crazy helps me to detach from a lot of this kind of behavior. I'm certainly not trying to insult her with this, but looking at her actions and thinking, they aren't that of a rational person. And, though she has tons of friends, she is actually alone in this process. Her friends are lazy and immature in their love of her, so they just "support" her thinking and tell her that she is right and must stay strong. So thinking of my W as being tremendously confused, with a bunch of people pushing her to keep being confused, allows me to feel tremendous sympathy for her.

I know you want this to be over quickly and for your lives to get back to "normal" but it isn't going to happen that way. It is going to take some time, a lot of work - even if she comes back, and things will never be what they were. That said, I believe they can become better than what they were, but it is going to mean changing on both your parts.

You might want to check out Mort Fertel's site and book. He tends to focus on actions to take to improve your marriage. For me, anyway, it is nice to have a list of things I can do each day to improve how I interact with my W. Not that I get to practice them much!!

[FloydMan]

It is borne out of insecurities. When trust breaks down, it is a big blow and if one does not care to restore it, it is impossible. That is my sitch. She definitely looks at me as the source of the problem. I used to react, up until several weeks ago, now it is 180 and Last Resort Technique. I think that is bothering her in some way. It has been easier for me to detach lately too knowing with friends, family and counsellor support that she is the one in another zone and not rational. It is sad, but helps. I agree with you on the friends thing…they just support the thinking. They are not qualified to help. MWD talks about well-meaning friends and family in her DR book. I too have had some of my closest tell me “dump her”. It really is that simple for people that are not stakeholders. I donlt really want things the way theey were in the last 4-5 years, but rather for the first 10, or something completely refreshing. She is unwilling to change, so I must DB and change myself….back to that confident, self-assured guy from days gone by.
Yes, how do we get the chance to practice? Every little encounter we get I suppose.

[SM34]

So FloydMan, KLB and myself. We all seem to have the same sitch. Working hard, running a business trying to secure a future for our family so that we can perhaps back off in the near future and enjoy our family for a change. The near future didnt come quickly enough and now here we are!

I think a part of me, and maybe the two you too, is a little angry at her. She isn't cutting me any slack for having sacrificed my entire 20s, and almost half of my 30s now, to build this business up so that she didn't need to work and could enjoy all the time in the world with our daughter. She never had to worry about bills or any other financial situation. She just asks me "Hey I am doing <insert something lame>, which card should I use to pay for it".

Now, i am the one of didn't appreciate her, didnt offer her enough affection, didnt make love to her enough (once or twice a week instead of every day like she wants) because I am always so run down physically and mentally. So now she is dropping me for someone who's life is much more basic and has a regular dead end job and can devote plenty of time telling her how hot she is.

I read on another site, marriagebuilders.com that when a women feels neglected and that her husband is in the position of power financially, she will ALWAYS trade down! In other words the OM will always be a douche! Thats the whole point because they need to feel like the intelligent, motivated, attractive one with the upper hand for a change. Thats exactly what is happening with my W. Her OM is a mechanic at a used car dealership, he is small and scrawny, and is kind of gay looking. I am a broad shoulder stocky guy who owns two businesses and am a manly man lol. So it could work in my advantage.

However, I spoke with the W best friend (friends since they were 8 years old and went through both their parents divorces together so very close). She saw a picture of OM on Facebook and she cannot believe my W would go for this guy. he is a "Troll" as she put it. My MIL also cannot believe it. We all agree he is really not her type at all! But he tells her she is hot, and he gives his so much attention that she is falling for it. I think she figures she tried the type she is attracted to, successfully, motivated, hard working, businessman type and it led her to be lonely so its time to trade down to a dead end job type guy who has more time to love her.

The interesting thing that puts a twist on this is that my MIL cannot talk to my W because W tells her you are a hypocrite. My MIL left my W's father when W was 13, and traded down to a guy who really has nothing going for him either. She is happily remarried now. However, MIL tries to remind my W that her father was emotionally and verbally abusive to her and was a very angry person who refused to seek help for his anger. They also had married because she got pregnant with my W when she was 17. Also, when she left her husband for OM, she had known the other guy for 15 years! It is a completely different situation than my W has! But W still thinks MIL cant give advice because she did the same.

Anyway, i know I shouldn't focus on the OM at all, but he messages her ALL DAY LONG! She is on the phone texting literally the whole day. Her iPhone beeped and she was in the bathroom and I looked at the message and he had messaged her to tell her "I miss your face". Gag me. What worries me is that he knows what he is up against. He knows her husband is somewhat successful and could be something big in a couple years, he knows she has a daughter who draws her to this family unit, he knows he doesn't have anything to offer, EXCEPT affection, and he know she is sorely missing that. So, he will lay it on thick at least until he is sure she has left me. At this point in time, she still spends more time around me than him so he has to keep her occupied with messages all day so she doesn't spend time with me and change her mind. But i know my wife and when she was in her right mind she would have thought that 1000 messages a day was lame as hell. She is so much more mature than this high school behavior, or at least she was.

Somewhere in that person who is not my wife, who is acting reckless and jeopardizing everythig we worked hard to build together, is my old wife, the one I love, the one who would never fall for a loser like this, one who always stood by me through thick and thin. i just need to find her.

She has stopped telling people about what is going on. Every single person she tells immediately calls me and asks me if she has lost her mind. After her mom, best friend in the world, and one of her close gay guy friends each found out, they told her she was crazy and she would never find someone better than me. They told her if your husband is willing to work on the problems, and willing to seek counselling or medical help or whatever he needs, then there is absolutely no excuse to be bailing on your family so quickly. She told her best friend she loves OM and her best friend said you don't even know what love is if you cant see that your husband loves you more than anyone else ever has, or ever will. They all think I am an AWESOME guy! I really am I catch (have to toot my own horn to remind myself that she is crazy). I grew up in Dubai, went to a private British school that was rated top ten IN THE WORLD. I graduated from college here in USA with a double bachelors in Computer Science and Computer Engineering. I immediately went into the master program and started a business. By age 24 I was making 6 figures at my business. It is only recently with the bad economy that we have suffered.

i have a question in case any of you can shed some light on this theory. On marriagebuilders.com they say you should expose the affair to all her friends and family, and all the friends and family of her OM. That puts a strain on their relatioship. however DB and DR suggest not to discuss these matters with any of her friends because she will be mad. What gives?

[Grocerykartman]

You just posted the following:

Anyway, i know I shouldn't focus on the OM at all, but he messages her ALL DAY LONG! She is on the phone texting literally the whole day. Her iPhone beeped and she was in the bathroom and I looked at the message and he had messaged her to tell her "I miss your face". Gag me. What worries me is that he knows what he is up against. He knows her husband is somewhat successful and could be something big in a couple years, he knows she has a daughter who draws her to this family unit, he knows he doesn't have anything to offer

Also:

the one I love, the one who would never fall for a loser like this,

So I will REPEAT this:

This is an example of a thought process you need to STOP IMMEDIATELY. Because your are spending your time thinking, judging, assuming, and at least (ok, now you're absolutely obsessing) about this guy. You have spent a lot of energy characterizing him. Do not spend one more ounce of energy comparing yourself to him.

Why? Because you know you are the better option, right?

Or do you?

Really think about this...everytime you compare him to you, you are actually second-guessing yourself. Cadet is right in his previous post, you have been given the gift of time, and I would also say, space here. With this gift, you can either stand pat with the way you act and spend your thoughts and energy cutting down the other guy...

OR...

you can dismiss the other guy's existance entirely and use the time you are separated from her to vastly improve and reinvent yourself for YOU, not for her.

Sound familiar?

They all think I am an AWESOME guy! I really am I catch (have to toot my own horn to remind myself that she is crazy). I grew up in Dubai, went to a private British school that was rated top ten IN THE WORLD. I graduated from college here in USA with a double bachelors in Computer Science and Computer Engineering. I immediately went into the master program and started a business. By age 24 I was making 6 figures at my business.

SO?

Seriously, so? If all this were enough you wouldn't be in this position right now.

I get your resentment towards her. I felt the same way a lot of times. I was busting my tail at work all hours of the night, missing time with my family, in the hopes I would finally get comfortable with my career and then I'd be able to relax. Yes, you'd think she'd appreciate all of it, but she's not an employer, or your teacher, or a professional cohort, or just happy to only give you a lifetime of "atta boy honey!"'s.
She's a wife, and wives have different needs than that.

I'm the last person to be able to tell you what you could have done differently or balanced your life better, because I never did figure it out. Work was priority 1 for me, then my daughter, then my wife, and I just couldn't grasp how to not stress about work and focus on getting where I thought I needed to be. It's just the way I'm wired, and I still struggle with it. And it stings man, it does, particularly when you think the other guy has no concept of what it takes to work as hard as you do.

But I can absolutely tell you that you must not act as if you're surprised that this happened. Again, wives need more than that horn your tooting. Carrying that resentment will only poison YOU. You will NOT improve yourself carrying this resentment, and you need to or you won't get her back.

Because she has, by her actions, basically told you "So?"

i have a question in case any of you can shed some light on this theory. On marriagebuilders.com they say you should expose the affair to all her friends and family, and all the friends and family of her OM. That puts a strain on their relatioship. however DB and DR suggest not to discuss these matters with any of her friends because she will be mad. What gives?

Here's what gives, MAD is not the emotion you need to worry about if you expose her. Her SHAME is what will prevail. Being mad passes over time, sometimes very quickly even. Shame and embarassment can last forever.

Have you ever felt extreme shame in anything you've done? I'm sure you probably have, even if it was just something as a kid you did. I know the times that I have felt it, you usually wonder if the person who you wronged will remember it. The more shame you cast over her, the harder it is to make things work later. The more people who know, the more people there are who she has to worry about judging her, for who knows how long. Of course, I'm not sure why SHE is telling everyone, sounds like she's just looking for support here. But don't add fuel to the fire. There's a saying on here to the effect of "keep the road to home paved and smooth." Exposing her just makes the road full of potholes and mud.

[FloydMan]

I am very angry too but I don't look at it as trading up or down. I really don't care what someone does for a living. The fact is he wants what you want and you resent him for that. I have a lot of resentment too. Working my butt off not to feel appreciated. My W says I never appeciated her. Well, I know that is not true but it is her perception. she has had so many excuses but she is accountable for her actions..not me or the other dude. We only need to accept our share of the dysfunction in the M to begin with and not how our W's handled it or didn't handle it. Unfortunately my W is still in blame mode for everything. Your W is rebelling and that would mean having the opposite of you. She is also rebelling against what everyone thinks. Has she ever been able to have an opinion in her whole life? .... I mean prior to you as well. My W is rebelling against things prior to me and me. She has a good paying job as a bank manager... Though I have made 2x as much and it is all spent. Get this....the OM was a PO.ice detective that struck it up with her after an armed robbery at the bank. She was the 911 caller. He was married with kids too. Never caught the robber. She also resents my relationship with my kids. I never knew she thought I was closer to them...I always thought she was. That came out last year in therapy 6 months before separation.

[SM34]

So actually KLB, GroceryKartman, and FloydMand AND ME, we all share the SAME story! So, I need you guys to help me out since you have been at this for long than I have. I have these questions, and I realize you cannot make changes just to get someone back, they have to be sincere:

1) How do you make your W feel that you appreciate her, and if she thought of coming home you would be much more intune with her needs than you ever were.

2) She thought I had a testosterone issue because my sex drive was low. After the BD, I wanted to show her that I am interested in fixing it and so after a lot of blood tests it turns out my Vitamin D is very VERY low from being at work all day inside and not getting enough sun (another by product of working too much for your family!). So, I have been taking my daily vitamins now, and W has actually asked me if i have been taking the vitamins. Not that it seems to matter to her right now since she is not giving me a chance to 'perform' so to speak.

3) How do we become the husband only a fool would leave? I mean we probably already are in that category. Now, I know you will all jump down my throat saying that if that was true we wouldn't be here. I understand that. What I mean is at least for me, my W and I are compatible in EVERY other way! We both like to stay home and watch TV together, we like to cook for each other, we like to debate political issues together after seeing something new on TV, we have been together for 14 years, 11 of which were spent alone with no kids. We have done A LOT of things together and traveled and did some wonderful stuff. We are really in my opinion, made for each other whether she realizes it right now or not. The ONLY real issue is the sex and the affection and the ego boost that gives her, and that is EXACTLY what OM is providing. Nothing more, nothing less.

So, I guess I will re iterate my question because I am very stuck at this point. How do I show her I promise to be a stallion and bang that sh*t every night if I have to take viagra or whatever!

Also, about the trading down thing that I mentioned in my previous post. I didn't make that up, that is actually documented it seems. Its not about worrying what job the OM does, it is about your W. She feels hurt from being with someone who puts success so high up on the priority list, that she will now look for someone who doesn't really care about that stuff. Plus, when there is a self esteem issue, as in the case of my W, she needs someone who is also not so attractive so that she can be the best he has ever dreamed of having. That way his obssession with her beauty will be very clear for her. Its just a point to think about with all your W's. I think it is important to understand the pyschology behind the WAW so that you know what you are up against!

[SM34]

As far as why SHE is telling her friends, you are absolutely right. She told her two closest girlfriends in her life right now, and they validated her feelings and told her she needs to go with her heart, or some crap like that. So she did exactly that, and ignored advice from the closest person to her which is her mother. She refused to "sleep on it" for a few days or weeks, and seek counseling and therapy for the negative, destructive feelings she was having. She refused to go and get a second opinion as to whether her recently prescribed medication (Zoloft 3 weeks before B) has anything to do with it. She went with her friends who have only known her for a few years and have no true life experience like her mother, and have no idea of the thoughts that go through someone's mind who might be depressed and is on medication.

So round one was easy and made her feel good about her decision, as silly as it was. Then, round two, she had to tell a couple of her friends who have known her longer than just a few years and also know me pretty well. Thats when it got ugly. Her lifelong best friend who just happened to move out of state a few years ago, told her she was insane and came down quite hard on her. This same friend had met her now husband at the same time that W and I met, and our first 2 or three dates where actually double dates with her and her H. So, she had known our story from the start, and doesn't believe my W can throw that all away, at least not without counseling and other options first.

Round three I would imagine would be her telling her extended family. She has 8 uncles and aunts and about 20 cousins who are all a tight knit family. They live a few hours away but we spent many a christmas and thans giving there over the years. I believe they also think very highly of me. They know we are perfect for each other, they all attended our wedding, and they are all church going folks who will think she should be seeking counseling before wanting out of a marriage that has a 3 year old involved.

So when she told her close friends that have known her for a long time, she was looking for the same positive re enforcement that she got from the girlfriends who havent known her that long and really dont know me at all. She didn't get anything positive, instead she got a slew of negatives from all of them. So, you are right she was looking for support but she is not getting it. It has upped her anxiety level. the other day she was sitting on the couch holding her head tightly. When I asked her whats wrong, she said I am so stressed out. When i told her that I thought she was leaving me to relieve the stress, and that she had said she is happy now, she said but i have to tell everyone and I don't know how. To me that meant I don't know how when everyone who is left to tell knows you and knows you are good to me, and knows this is a irrational step to fixing a marriage, and they will all come down on me like a ton of bricks. I told her she didn't need to tell anyone else. the people you interact with on a daily basis all know, and thats all that matters right now. Was that a good response? I was thinking about exactly what you said about the way home being as easy as possible. She already told MIL she thought she was already this far into it, and there is no turning back, and only about 5 people know! If all these people find out, then it makes it much easier to follow through with this. Thats why I suggested she leave it at this, for now at least.