LBS gearing up for the long haul

[Dm45]

Link to my first thread: WAW seems to be making positive steps...whattodo?

100 posts already. Nearly 3 months since the meltdown. Didn't think I'd be here this long. Didn't know her hurt was so deep. Boy have I been naive.

Thanks to everyone for advice, support, and 2x4's. I still need it.

25, when we left off, the plan was for you to help me plan for anniversary on 12/7...

do not ignore the anniversary.

Check the road map she gave you and see what things you can work on and we can chat about incorporating somethings in a card or gift for her.

What is her love language?

My reply:

25,
I really believe her LL is Acts of Service. 99.9% sure.

Road map:

• Pursue more work. Don't rely on the business, ever again, unless by the grace of God it surpasses income of BOTH of us again. For me to have a PMA I have to be providing at least decent support
• Pursue personal career development options rather than usual GAL. Frankly, the feel good type of GAL was part of the problem. She saw ME as having a life, while she toiled away. All my GAL was ESCAPE/AVOID shame of reality that I wasn't supporting enough. I was having EAs w/my activities.
• Pursue better R w/S, S, D. For All our benefit.
• Alleviate fear that things would be the same in the future RE:my pushy, bully ways by showing 180 behaviors to her, like NOT defending criticisms, but validating; and by not criticizing, judging.
• DON'T mention, or allude to, or imply, or manipulate convo toward living situation, OM again. She will bring it up when the time comes. (I just remembered something...see my PS below)

Others?

Looking forward to your ideas for anniversary!

PS. 2 separate friends have offered her a place to stay while we work things out. Saturday, and at least 2 other occasions, SHE brought these up: "I'm not going to go stay with friend1 like a 12 year old." friend1 is an older couple who tried to counsel her in the beginning.."and I'd have to sleep standing up if I stayed w/friend2"..friend2 is a borderline hoarder. That's when I fixate and push with an attitude of "anywheres better than where you are!"

What is she trying to tell me by bringing this up? I always suggest going back to her sisters but think she is ashamed to and now has said I didn't give space she needed when she was there before. Pastor mentioned to me yesterday a couple he knows looking for a boarder. He is getting details just in case. I agree w/her on friend2. Neither of us are neat freaks but we have our limits.

I think mirroring the 12 year old comment next time will be better than getting pushy.

I really want to get this right!

[Dm45]

Brief contact today when W dropped of S16 whom she had taken to mall for birthday shopping trip.

She announced "Going to meet w/friend1 on Saturday morning" (Friend1 has known us since teenagers. She was moms best friend, has offered her a place to live) I said "Great, it's been a while, I thought maybe she was being pushy w/you." She asked why, I said because my Dad who is in FL asked if we were talking to anyone way back when this started. I told him yes, friend1. He said "that surprises me, she can be pushy" my W said not pushy at all and looking forward to talking to her.

I am glad about this because friend1 is adamantly pro M, pro R, loves us both like family, my wife doesn't find her pushy. I just want W to have someone like that to pour her heart too...hoping it will be healing for her. I have this forum, and pastor. Seems she has no wise council yet.

My anniversary is in 8 days. Don't want to ignore. Don't want to make mistakes.

[labug]

I don't think she's trying to tell you anything by bringing it up. Women tend to talk about what's on their mind, that's the way many of us process information. Unless she asks for help or advice, don't offer it. Don't be thinking up a response or a fix while listening to her. Really, just listen and provide a response like, "I'm sure you'll figure out something that works for you."

I'd be careful about calling her friends pushy, that's her friend and now it sounds like you're talking to the family about her (W).

It does seem that you're getting consistent baby steps.

[labug]

I misworded that-suggesting that her friend might be pushy.

I know you're trying not to steer this ship but you haven't quite gotten there yet.

Walk away from the helm!

[Dm45]

Labug I get your drift...when this all began I was trying to drag W to see this friend all the time. W of course backed off, stopped returning her calls. W didn't use the word "pushy" but something along those lines, back then. I was more or less agreeing with what i thought W thought. Now she's changed her stance and I'm glad. It was me being pushy I guess.

I am just pleasantly surprised to know she is back in contact w/this friend. She (friend) is opposite of all the bad influences mentioned in ch. 1 of DR.

[25yearsmlc]

Brief contact today when W dropped of S16 whom she had taken to mall for birthday shopping trip.

She announced "Going to meet w/friend1 on Saturday morning" (Friend1 has known us since teenagers. She was moms best friend, has offered her a place to live) I said "Great, it's been a while, I thought maybe she was being pushy w/you."


Learn to keep these types of comments to yourself. For all you know, that friend has been YOUR BEST support...or HER best...there's simply NO GOOD that can come out of a comment like that.

I think this is a real problem for you. MAYBE you should Apply the new rules of behavior for you with your wife, to the world at large...it affects her view of you anyhow, not to mention it's just a nicer way of living AND being open to what others think BEFORE you tell them your opinion....


She asked why, I said because my Dad who is in FL asked if we were talking to anyone way back when this started. I told him yes, friend1. He said "that surprises me, she can be pushy" my W said not pushy at all and looking forward to talking to her.


I don't see how ANY of this^^ helps YOU...it makes it clear your dad knows the situation AND is commenting on it (NOT so great for your w''s shame, which can quickly convert into anger at YOU in a heartbeat...we OFTEN see WASs who feel guilt and tire of it and their rationalizations for leaving in the first place, begin to grow) AND

your wife has now had the concept that a pro-marriage friend MIGHT be manipulative and let's get real, your pro marriage friend has just been undermined.

That is Not a good thing.


I am glad about this because friend1 is adamantly pro M, pro R, loves us both like family, my wife doesn't find her pushy. I just want W to have someone like that to pour her heart too...hoping it will be healing for her.

Your friend1 is pro marriage ---which is the biggest reason YOU are glad about it. It means, to you, that you are more likely to get your way.

So, don''t you see anything remotely manipulative here?

I hope the rest of my comments sink in more. Stay off the topic of what friends say, either way.

Let your wife figure this dilemma out without you hovering over her shoulder pointing out the "Right" answer...it's her puzzle to solve.

The only way you can show her the way is to BE the way...fix you, not her. Okay?

I have this forum, and pastor. Seems she has no wise council yet.


aside from the mind reading here^^, again, why do you say she has no wise counsel? B/C she has not come home? Do you really feel ready for her to be in the same house with you?

Meaning, you believe the awakening you're having has sunk in thoroughly enough that your behavior will be altered even when she triggers you or when you have a bad day or don't feel well treated?

Consistent change like that, takes time AND consistently new different behaviors on YOUR end, and right now she's not even around you so you have not been tested a lot and you have had many backslides...

so it takes a lot of time to decide to change, to find a positive model to emulate and then to practice it...

If you don't know what loving healthy behaviors are IN TIMES OF CRISIS or CONFLICT, then you cannot know how to react in those moments...

it's important to know what NOT to do, but you also need to know what TO DO...and you need some positive roles around for that...

Meaning you have to know what the change looks like (you can't just say "DO NOT CRITICIZE" and assume you'll then know how to communicate a negative emotion in a healthier way).

You have to learn this stuff, and 3 months is not much time for you to truly become the h she deserves. You can SOMEDAY ask to be able to show her that you want to be that man, and to love her as she deserves, but it's awfully soon...

See, I worry that you will rush back too fast and there's NOTHING GOOD about that...Most of the reconcilations that don't work out here, are the ones that were rushed....

So, take your time moving towards this reconciliation by working on YOU and really letting this stuff CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR and your attitude....So it sinks into your head & your heart & shows in how you speak to AND about her

(esp to your kids)

you do NOT want to backslide after a recon, and then have her [b]truly convinced there's no other way but to divorce. Few enough of us get 2nd
chances... a 3rd chance is not likely.

So get more honest with yourself, and change in a core way. ONLY THEN will you really have a chance when you get to piecing, which is harder than you think...

My anniversary is in 8 days. Don't want to ignore. Don't want to make mistakes.

So you married on Pearl Harbor day?

Well on that day, this nation was wounded and had the he11 scared out of us, a war began that hurt and frightened us but eventually, ended up pulling us together in ways this country had not seen in a generation,

and which lead to a tremendous emotional and financial recovery....not too shabby of an outcome so we can hope your marriage fares as well (but with less torture and collateral damage).

well, what TYPES of activities can you plan to spend with her that would show thoughtfulness of HER needs/wants? What does SHE like to do? Not that "you also like" but just what SHE likes?

Don't get me wrong-I think It's great if you both Truly enjoy something, but make darn sure it's not something YOU love, which she's "okay with doing" mostly b/c YOU liked it...make sense?)

If it were me, and it's not--but hey, I'm just tossing out ideas,

(and since my LL is quality time & acts of service), I'd love my h to plan & implement an activity I enjoy and do it together.

(In my dream world, it'd be a trip. But at the moment that would be seen as extravagant in your situation, or so I think. Of course If you know someone with a beach house or time share or cabin in the woods or near a ski place, you could take a weekend and get away and not spend a fortune, but have some FUN time together and no kids around)

OR seeing a play or comedian is excellent to do after a new exotic or tasty dinner,

OR a day in a beautiful place where you can visit a winery or take a hike (does SHE like those?)

and take a well supplied picnic and bottle of wine ---**but if you do something that doesn't cost much at all,

I might insert at least an affordable but meaningful gift just so it doesn't come off to her or her people, as "the cheap anniversary", and she has "gotten something" b/c her family/friends WILL ask...

also, do NOT expect her to give you something in return. I think that bears repeating...do NOT expect her to give anything in return

and if she does give you a card, I'd think it'll be LESS than "I'm coming home & I love you" so be ready to just seem upbeat...

make sure you get her a card and put a heartfelt "thank you" in it for the kids she brought into the world w/you --and for the many great memories...do NOT speak of the future and this way the card won't make any demands of her.

You want her to feel appreciated by you, w/o expectation in return. You do NOT want her to feel pressure from you, b/c you are telling her that "no matter what she chooses to do, YOU are still glad you married her", etc.

Make sense? Other ideas....think hard....

What act of service could you do? Is her car broken or is there something that needs painting (I realize her being in the house would help here but she's not. So let's just brainstorm...)

Okay, let me tell you a gift my brother in law gave my sister one Christmas while she had been away...inside a small box was a small carpet sample and I was confused. But it meant he'd installed new carpet in their living room...pretty cool to ME...for ME that's a great gift....and it's a cool act of service.

ANYONE have other ideas for DM?? Again, no expectations on your end and make it clear you are not hurt or sulking or disappointed. IF you get to spend the anniversary with her, be happy about THAT...

Whatever it is, do it in her love language.

[Dm45]

25, lots of good stuff, points (working on) well taken.

I'm going to focus on the anniversary stuff first, as that's shorter term...

I know SHE likes movies in the theater. It's a hohum for me but I've always been willing w/a smile. After 21 years she knows also that if watching a movie I prefer it at home.

Even though she enjoys, it's never been that special that we'd do it for anniversary date in the past.

I do know that she likes for ME to be the planner of dates. (or did)

My dream world would be a trip, too. We both love that. Last year we went to Philly (3 hours away) to see a band play a reunion concert. Seeing that band was one of our our first date in 1990 and they are still probably our favorite. Very romantic. We missed the opportunity this year it was on black Friday.

I think asking for a trip right now would be pushy?

I think definitely dinner, then seeing something. We've never done plays or comedians. Maybe a drive to see something Christmas decorated. I'll check in to what's going on. Movies also.

Gift? She's ALWAYS cold. Something to keep her warm? A sweater or wrap, or for her work (recovery room nurse...extra cold there) some kind of under armor for under scrubs...thinking "out loud"

Act of service...yesterday when she dropped off S16 she "caught" me doing 2. I was trying to finish before she got there but was still finishing 1. Hurricane had pulled off a short piece of siding on garage. Fixed. 2. Leaves in front flower garden..raked and disposed of. She drove up as I was carting the last of them away. In August she raved when that garden was looking bad and I took care of it.
Was I trying to time this so it would look fresh when she got there? You bet!

I'll have to think of another. She mentioned a bush that needs to be trimmed to the ground for winter.

Inside the house, the kitchen is spotless...today...kids make that a daily struggle...though she hasn't been inside since going to OM.

[25yearsmlc]

real quick, just b/c you have never been to see a live comedian or Broadway show or a play, is NO reason not to go. In fact, I'd argue it is a reason TO do it.

I'd do something NEW if you can, if it's possibly something she'd like. Or give her the option between two activities.

IF you do go to see a comedian, choose a clean one like Brian Regan or Maria Bamford or Megan Mooney, etc...

I'm familiar with live comedy and it's usually an EXCELLENT date b/c laughing hard together is a bonding experience and later on you have "inside" jokes that are funny.

But if cussing offends you, you have to call ahead & ask.

just don't feel confined to the past...

good luck

[Dm45]

real quick, just b/c you have never been to see a live comedian or Broadway show or a play, is NO reason not to go. In fact, I'd argue it is a reason TO do it.

I'd do something NEW if you can, if it's possibly something she'd like. Or give her the option between two activities.

IF you do go to see a comedian, choose a clean one like Brian Regan or Maria Bamford or Megan Mooney, etc...

I'm familiar with live comedy and it's usually an EXCELLENT date b/c laughing hard together is a bonding experience and later on you have "inside" jokes that are funny.

But if cussing offends you, you have to call ahead & ask.

just don't feel confined to the past...

good luck

We do enjoy comedy shows at home...we can change the channel if it gets offensive. It's not so much the cussing but subject matter sometimes. Esp. for W.

Theater or dinner theater has been recommended. She's done dinner th. as "girls day" with for a sisters birthday before but never w/me.

I'll look into both.

[Dm45]

Paul Mecurio?