He's Just Not That Into You - The Sequel

[mamabird]

My last thread got locked. Here's a link to it for anyone just joining:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2302489&page=1

Quick recap:

H and I separated in June, about 5 1/2 months ago. Things had been crappy for a good while prior to that, leading to my involvement in a "texting" A. H asked me to leave after he found something on my phone, which I did.

Moved back home in Sept (at my insistence). I recently found out that H went to a lawyer and tried to start D proceedings soon afterwards, but L talked him off the ledge. We have recently started MC but H states he does not know how he'd like to move forward.

Currently, things have been going smoothly between us. No fighting, no tension, we are actually laughing together and maybe even enjoying each other's company. We had a nice family Thanksgiving and it looks like we'll have a family Christmas too. He enjoys it when I give him a back rub in the evenings and I think that has helped us come back together.

However, H is still holding back emotionally. I am still sleeping in the guest room (sofa bed), which I hate. H does not wear his wedding ring. I'm not thrilled with our MC - he's very passive and H needs more direction in order to get out of his emotional rut, I think.

H also suffers from depression and is on multiple meds. One other issue at play is with his mother, who abandoned the family when H was a teen and H has never dealt with it. It's coming into our R and has been for a few years.

So I'm struggling with how to make that final jump back to H & W. I think the ball is in H's court and I just have to sit back and wait for him to serve it.

Will post another update after today's MC session.

[Breakdown]

Have you asked your H how he feels about his IC and MC? Does he think they are making him think? Does he think they are helping him work thru his feelings?

[LisaLost]

Regretful,

How long has your H been on AD meds? I am on one now and have been on a few in the past and I have had several that just dull my emotions. Could that be something that's in play here?

Lisa

[mamabird]

Have you asked your H how he feels about his IC and MC? Does he think they are making him think? Does he think they are helping him work thru his feelings?

I have to be careful with questions like that. H gets defensive and he might interpret that as me wanting to know his business. We are not at that point just yet. He does like his IC so I find it best just to stay out of it.

How long has your H been on AD meds? I am on one now and have been on a few in the past and I have had several that just dull my emotions. Could that be something that's in play here?

That is entirely possible, but he needs the dulling. He has been on AD's on and off and I think he's better on them. H is highly emotional and needs help keeping that in check. People are wired differently - he is on one end of the spectrum and I am on the other, as we've come to find out. Therefore we have a hard time understanding each other's reactions. I think he's too sensitive and he thinks I am very insensitive. Probably both true.

Today's MC session was fruitful. I think, as Wendylon pointed out on my last thread, that H just needs to be heard. It is hard to do that - just hear someone without interjecting, especially when it's such a sensitive subject. So we focused on H talking and me listening. I think we are going to be there for a while. MC asked me if I was prepared to tolerate some limbo for a while and I told him I thought it was the only way out of this.

H states that he has never felt heard, especially around OM1. This is aside from the garden variety steamrolling, selfishness, nasty tone, shaming and general disregard for H's feelings. I guess I can see why H is not clamoring to get right back in the saddle at this point. Things just have not been good for a long time.

H also states that he has a fundamental distrust of me, that he thinks I have an "agenda." Not sure what he means by that or why, because I am not a game player.

One thing we do agree on though: neither one of us wants an acrimonious D, and neither one of us really wants to break up the family. So now we get into this question of "perspective" that I've been talking about with Crazyville on her thread. My perspective is that IF we don't want to break up the family, THEN the solution is to fix the M. H's perspective is that he doesn't want to break up the family, but isn't willing to commit to fixing the M. H's perspective is that nothing seems like a good option at this point. He is much less willing to jump in with both feet to try to repair the R, although we both want the same outcome - a loving relationship and intact family.

The MC said that at some point H may be ready to see my side of it, but not now, and so we're going to have to drop that part of it for the time being. He may never get there.

A few other small bits of good news: H mentioned he found something he wanted for Xmas. I see this as a positive; it's setting expectations for gift giving. H also finally started reading the book "After the Affair", which made him angry, and I knew it would stir some emotions in him, but I think it's good for him to get an additional point of view. Finally, we spent some time together watching TV last night. At one point he leaned over to get his back rub. I continue to hold that this is good quality time together, but he says it's all superficial and has nothing to do with the way he feels about our R. I say that's a lot of hogwash, since if he hated me, that would not be happening.

[Wendylon]

H also states that he has a fundamental distrust of me, that he thinks I have an "agenda." Not sure what he means by that or why, because I am not a game player.

I've heard that before from my H! He thinks my "agenda" is to get my way and turn him into someone he's not--just to suit me. He's also mentioned that he fears that my goal in the R is to win. Like yours, my H has said that he doesn't trust me and that he wouldn't be surprised if I dumped him once I had him just the way I wanted him.

One thing we do agree on though: neither one of us wants an acrimonious D, and neither one of us really wants to break up the family.

That is huge.

H's perspective is that he doesn't want to break up the family, but isn't willing to commit to fixing the M.

That sound familiar too. I don't think you can hurry him. Any hint that you aren't cool with his position can come across as pressure and you wanting things your way. It sounds as if he needs time without him feeling that you are pressuring him or that you're unhappy with his position in the marriage at the moment.

A few other small bits of good news: H mentioned he found something he wanted for Xmas. I see this as a positive; it's setting expectations for gift giving.

I think that is a great sign.

At one point he leaned over to get his back rub. I continue to hold that this is good quality time together, but he says it's all superficial and has nothing to do with the way he feels about our R. I say that's a lot of hogwash, since if he hated me, that would not be happening.

I agree with you there too. It sounds as if he's trying to save face by not admitting how much he enjoys the back rubs. I do think my H took his time coming back to the R (last time) partly out of misplaced pride and partly because he really enjoyed being the one who held that sort of power in our R. He came closer as I dropped the rope.

Once again, all this is a good reminder to me of what has worked in my sitch before.

I see loads of positives in yours and wish you bucket-loads of patience.

[mamabird]

Thanks Wendy. It's a bit ironic, the show we are watching now is The Hour - H loves his British shows. I think of you and your H watching The Good Wife and I chuckle to myself - here we are watching a British show and you guys are watching an American one. The gift he wanted for Xmas? A set of books only available in the UK, of course. I got it for him even though it was exorbitant once you figure in the exchange rate, the shipping and the VAT.

I really do appreciate your advice, since you've been through it once and you saw some success. I have to tell myself to bite my tongue every time I see him with his phone and he seems to be texting. I have to practice listening and not expressing my side of things. It is excruciating. I am trying to actually imagine myself dropping a rope when I am tempted to overstep my bounds.

Once in a while though, I do see those little glimpses of hope - and they always happen while we are having our "nice" time. He relaxes and reverts to the "old" him. I don't think he realizes how much comfort he gets from the back rubs. It kind of allows him to turn off all the anger and resentment for a while. Tonight he said my name in this joking way that he used to do - I haven't heard him do that in such a long time that I forgot he did it. It was kind of a surprise for me.

And yet, it always reverts back to his narrative that whatever happens between us in the evenings doesn't count because he still has his doubts about my ability to be present in the M or to prioritize him and the family. I think that what happens in the evenings is what's bringing us back together, whether he realizes it or not. And it is being present, and prioritizing everyone else's needs over mine - certainly his, anyway. Something has changed his mind over time because we're much better now than we were, even pre-bomb.

[Crazyville]

RLA, keep sticking to what's working and don't let his comments concern you too much. It's a safety mechanism. Or a safety line. He doesn't want to fall back into what you had before so he's not letting go yet. He might venture as far in as the rope will let him while still hanging on for a while.

I would only caution you not to do anything now that you don't intend to do for the long-haul. It's a setup for failure. I don't think you are, just mentioning it.

[Spartan]

Just read some of your sitch, remember to be patient with him. Coming from the H side getting over an affair (PA or EA) is a very hard thing to do. For me it happened before kids and it was probably harder to deal with then my current thoughts of being divorced or away from my kids. Once he gets over it the real work of regaining trust begins. For me this is where I failed because I now see I never did regain trust and it caused more issues which has led to my being on these boards. Just continue to do what is working and be patient, sounds like a lot of things you're doing are but remember this is a LONG process.

[quote]H states that he has never felt heard, especially around OM1. This is aside from the garden variety steamrolling, selfishness, nasty tone, shaming and general disregard for H's feelings. I guess I can see why H is not clamoring to get right back in the saddle at this point. Things just have not been good for a long time.

I understand how hard it is to keep quiet and let spouse talk but it's imperative. It might be even harder to actually listen to what they're saying. Quoting someone on these boards here: "One of the greatest strengths in communication is seeing the other side's point, even if you 100% disagree with it". I would always tell my W what to do to fix something, what she was doing wrong, etc... which made her shutdown and led us down the path we're currently on. It will take time but if you can listen and try to understand what he is saying then he will begin to open up and start to trust more. It will also show that you're changing your ways and don't want to do the things you admit to doing that hurt him.

[mamabird]

For some reason, one of my old threads, "Standing my Ground" popped up on my phone today. I guess I had it bookmarked. I spent some time re-reading it. It was only 2 months ago but it feels like a lifetime of difference.

I almost feel like the universe was putting it right in my path to read. We have come a long way in 2 months, but the theme of that thread was about me owning up to my part and my wrongdoing. The vets really called me to the carpet and I got some big 2 x 4s. It's relevant now because my H and I are covering that together in MC, and it's good in a sense to be reminded of the damage that I caused. It is easy to block that out since it's painful to sit with the reality, but I think it's necessary for me to have to sit there for a while.

Anyway, thanks for the support and reminders. It's good to have a place to come and vent where I don't feel like I'm bothering anyone with my BS.

[Wendylon]

RLA, keep sticking to what's working and don't let his comments concern you too much. It's a safety mechanism. Or a safety line. He doesn't want to fall back into what you had before so he's not letting go yet. He might venture as far in as the rope will let him while still hanging on for a while.

I think CV's analysis of the sitch with your H is spot on.

How funny that you're watching British shows. Have you watched Downton Abbey? There is a Christmas special here. I'm very excited for you that your H said your name in a joking way that he used to. I wonder whether it even took him by surprise. It shows that he is starting to feel more and more comfortable around you.

Your H's behaviour reminds me of a boyfriend I had in college. I broke up with him at the end of Junior year for someone else but then that didn't work out and my original boyfriend and I got back together in our Senior year. For ages, he kept saying that he didn't trust me and wouldn't trust me but somehow I could tell that he was getting back into the relationship despite his assertions to the contrary. I let him say that we weren't really getting back together even though I could tell we were. We eventually did break up when we went to graduate schools with an eight hour time difference (pre-internet days). I still dream about him a lot.

After I broke up with that boyfriend, he played it very cool for a long time. In some ways, he DBed instinctively and it was very attractive. We had to see each other as we shared a carrel (also pre-internet times of having carrels in the university library to study). He was cheerful and upbeat and really looked as if his life was absolutely fine without me. He flirted (and slept) with other women. Looking back, I can't get over how insensitive I'd been. I broke up with him over the phone the day before he was sitting his LSATs. Luckily for me, he still did well. If someone did that with my son, I'd be livid. Sorry for the rambling and reminiscing on your thread...

Back to you, keep doing what you're doing! You're definitely on the right track. Keep zipping your lips and validate. Let him hang on to his resistance and his stories for now.