Do I Have a Chance?

[complicated]

Here's my story and I hope I can be concise. My husband and I have been married for 25 years and together for 27. We have 3 daughters 20, 18 and 15. We have had some issues with our kids like anyone else so I figured we would work through our problems. We had been seeing couseling with our daughter and it is through that I found out we had issues. It was basically both of us blaming each other when we didn't agree with each other.

Husband is a pleaser and basically does what everyone wants. Occasionally he would disagree. Finally right before our oldest went off to college he told me he was depressed and didn't love me anymore. He said he has not been happy for a long time and blamed me for his depression and our marital problems. I do take responsibility for my part. I can see how he did things for everyone and eventhough I always appreciate what he does maybe I didn't show it like I should and I have been working on that. He also said that he was always the one who had to initiate sex and that is true too. I always felt like the only times he wanted to be close was when he wanted sex. I have since read that men and women feel love differently and am trying to see things from his point of view.

Anyway, in June 2011 he filed for divorce but we stayed living together. It was almost final when he stopped it in 3/12 but in 5/12 he moved out to live with his parents where he still lives. We have been seeing counseling for a couple of years and we don't seem to be getting anywhere. I picked up Michelle's books Divorcebusting and Divorce Remedy trying to put our marriage back together because obviously I am doing this on my own. Of course I was doing everything wrong. Begging and telling him I'm sorry and I'll change which I am all of those but I don't need to tell him daily.

So right now I am trying to get a life and only contact him when needed. Two of our daughters are away at school with one still at home and we still have our house that I live in. My problem is he continues to attack me and tell me everything I have done wrong throughout our marriage. He fails to see what he has done to me because I don't keep a record for him.

I really want to put our marriage back togehter for our sake and the sake of our kids. I do still love him. We have been intimate throughout this process which I don't know if that is right or wrong. He says he doesn't want me to get the wrong idea that he doesn't love me but he's a guy. At this point I really don't think there is an OW and I don't have an OM. I am not a very patient person and I don't feel like we are getting anywhere with counseling. I know I slip up and send him emails trying to explain myself but at least that is getting less frequent. I'm trying really hard to adhere to Michelle's advice. It does seem like any decision I make he seems to disagree with. I'm not sure why he feels the need to worry about it.

One of my questions is how to handle this because he is depressed and his complaint was that I didn't show him enough love or appreciation and I always want my way. Do I do that now or still stay totally away? I want to show him I love him but I know that is not necessarily the right way to go about it.

Do we still have a chance? Help!!

[kat727]

I am so sorry that you find yourself here. Having gone through this, it is one of the most devasting experiences that I have been through.

Before you do anything regarding your H, please know that you can only control you. You can only change you. So with that in mind, think about what changes would you want to make in your life to make it better for you. Is there something that you stopped doing because he didn't like it? Is there something that you have wanted to learn but haven't gotten around to it yet?

Next please do not contact your husband unless it has to do with your kids or something urgent with the house. He has a lot to figure out and work on himself. He does NOT know this. He will keep blaming you as long as you keep contacting him. Keep your focus on you.

As for hope...I would like to think there is always hope. The odds aren't good but you will never know if you don't try. Personally I think DB is a path to save yourself and get through this time. I hope that you can put your marriage back together but it will take time and the patience of a saint.

kat

[Just A Guy]

Complicated, a few things I can throw in here....

DETACH!!!! This is first and foremost the thing you need to do... Stop the "hookups", begging, initiation of contact etc.. Still be there lovingly but not in the same way you have been..

Get rid of the MC you have been seeing... If it has been that long with no results IMO its the WRONG MC for you two... I have been blessed to have found a "pro marriage" MC locally and she has done WONDERS in untangling the crazy web W and I have spun and offering solutions. We see progress where we NEVER saw with our previous MC.

Read LOTS of books in addition to DB DR.

5 Love Languages
I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You
[edited by dbmod: reference not recommended nor allowed]were three that helped me immensely.


Next start getting back to things which you may have given up which make you happy. Hobbies, Old friends etc...

Call a DB coach, same price as a therapist with MUCH more to offer in these situations...

There is ALWAYS hope, that you can get back together, that you can change, that you can enjoy life just as much if not more than you ever thought you could...

[theUF]

In my sitch I'm the LBS, but

We had the same issue, we started having sex less. I wanted more, but she didn't seem to care. In retrospect, thinking about our conversations and situation I think the problem was :

-I was left with the feeling : She doesn't want to have sex.
Ergo, she doesn't find me attractive anymore OR she doesn't love me anymore OR she can't stand me anymore. That hurt and made me more distant, except for when reaching out(in form of seeing if she wanted to have sex). For me sex meant she loved me, cared for me etc.

-She was left with the feeling : We are having problems, and only thing he is thinking about is sex. He is distant, but then suddenly he wants sex. He only cares about getting laid. This made her more distant and unwilling.

Bad circle.


Oh and you say your physical together now. In the early beginning of our R she was unsure about her feelings toward a X. We were also physical, but she just couldn't make up her mind. Until I stopped getting physical with her and started distancing myself. Being there for her all the time kept us in limbo. Not saying this is the case in your sitch, or that the same thing will happen.
But consider the possibility of cake-eating. Even though not-being physical in your R made things worse, it doesn't mean getting physical now will make things better.

The previous replies gives really good advice.
Learning from your mistakes is a great step, but you also need to realize not everything falls on you. Focus on you, learn from your mistakes, but keep your self-respect.

[complicated]

Thanks everyone for your replies and last night I read through the DR book again and tried to get myself back on a good path. I had started putting Michelle's books to work but I get off course sometimes.

Last night my H and I texted about my daughter's game. She plays soccer in college and they are still in the NCAA tournament. I thought it was important to go and he doesn't. I am going and I think he is mad about it. He has made several comments how I go to most of the games. He has missed most of the games. I like to be there for the kids and their activities. It is something that makes me happy and I think they appreciate it too. Maybe not so much now but when they look back. I always appreciated my parents going to my games and I still remember it. I don't know why he cares so much what I do? I know he thinks I leave the younger one but in the grand scheme of things I am there for her day in and day out. I always offer to take her with me and I have made many special trips with just her too.

We both did go to a game over the weekend (we drove separately) and he was great. He joked around alot and it was almost like old times. I would have called it one of the baby steps Michelle talks about. But, the next day he was back to blaming me for being gone and doing things wrong. He jumps back and forth. Some days I feel like we make progress and others we go back to the beginning.

theUF I totally agree with you on the intimacy thing. Our situation is identical and I often wonder about the cake-eating too. It's so hard because when you are having a good moment together sometimes it just happens. That is where I need to be stronger and because I realize now that I too miss it.

Just a Guy I bought a couple of the other books you mention I just haven't gotten to them yet. Knowing someone else thinks they're good will make me pick them up. I feel like I got on the internet one night and was flustered and started buying books trying to save my marriage but now I realize I need to save myself.

Your comments are interesting regarding the MC. I made a comment to her the last time I went that I was getting disappointed because I feel like we haven't gotten anywhere. We go separately and sometimes together though we haven't gone together in a long time. I think she feels like she has gotten somewhere with him though I can't see it. With me she has helped me get to the point to "get a life". I know she is a "pro-marriage" therapist but I don't feel like we've made much progress. He is still very depressed and blaming me for everything. I have thought more than once about scheduling a DB phone call. Has anyone here used this? Like I said earlier, I do take responsibilty for my part of our problems but I also realize I am not solely responsible.

One thing I forgot to mention and it is important is that when we would get in arguments, sometimes I would say "why don't we just get divorced". I know now that it is wrong. I used to hear my mom say that when I was younger and as a little kid it seemed to work because they are still married to this day. I think about 55 years But, I realize you don't say that unless you really mean it and I never meant it. He throws this back at me and I really don't know what to say except that I never should have said those things and I am very sorry. If I would have only known how much that hurt him I never would have said that. It isn't until now that he is telling me things like this. Now I try really hard to think before I speak where before all of this I probably didn't so much. My mom says I get it honestly which doesn't help! So that is why I say I am not blameless but I am very sorry.

[AnotherStander]

but in 5/12 he moved out to live with his parents where he still lives.

So he doesn't live there. What level of contact do the two of you have? Do you see each other frequently? He needs space to sort things out. He's been away for 6 months, in that length of time you should have seen some kind of progress unless you haven't been giving him enough space.

We have been seeing counseling for a couple of years and we don't seem to be getting anywhere.

Did you read about cheeseless tunnels in DR? You're going down one. Seek a new counselor. Better yet, ditch the counseling and get a DB coach.

Begging and telling him I'm sorry and I'll change which I am all of those but I don't need to tell him daily.

You don't need to tell him at all. He knows. Every time you say it you're just applying pressure, because that is NOT what he wants now.

So right now I am trying to get a life and only contact him when needed.

Good. How long have you been doing this? It's going to take months of DB'ing before you start seeing results.

My problem is he continues to attack me and tell me everything I have done wrong throughout our marriage.

Take stock of everything he's told you and do 180's on those things.

I really want to put our marriage back togehter for our sake and the sake of our kids.

Understand that you cannot do that directly, only indirectly. You've got to do 180's on all the things you contributed to the marriage problems. You've got to give him time and space to appreciate your 180's. And you've got to make yourself more appealing by becoming more attractive, happy and independent. If you come off as needy you're going to push him away further. No crying/ begging/ pleading/ reasoning. detach and GAL. Make yourself into a spouse that only a fool would leave, that's the goal.

I know I slip up and send him emails trying to explain myself but at least that is getting less frequent.

That needs to go from "less frequent" to "never". It is hurting you, not helping. It comes off as needy and that is not at all attractive.

[kat727]

Hope you are still here. Let us know what has been going on and we will try to give you advice.

kat

[complicated]

Hi Kat yes I am still here. This weekend I went out of town certain that H was mad that I went. I acted like I didn't care and went and I'm glad I was there for D18. They lost their big game and I know she was upset but probably glad I was there for her. She flew back with the team and I flew back on my own. H drove 3 hours to school to pick her up for the holiday. I offered to go with him if he wanted (he was going to be driving late at night and has fallen asleep at the wheel before) but I said I understood if he wanted to be alone. He chose to go by himself. I am trying really hard to give him space.

H acting nicer. I have been doing real good with no contact and have continued with the 180's. I did contact him regarding a conversation with D15 who thinks we should buy her whatever she wants and with Christmas just about a month away. H has always been more than generous with buying them whatever they want. I want them to show more respect and help us and good things will come. D15, the one who lives at home is the only one right now that thinks we owe her everything and I suspect it is her way of dealing with the hurt. I don't really know. I told him I am more than happy to discuss just what he feels we as parents are responsible for and what should be a gift. Told him that I will wait until he is ready to discuss. For me this is a 180 because normally I would trying to get this talked out ASAP and would argue until it was done.

We also had some floors refinished and though I was very happy with them he would have liked them with a little more sheen. Since I am the one living in the house and I had to arrange for the furniture moving and I am the one living in the mess I was pretty proud of myself by saying I'll call them and have them change it if you're not happy because it really doesn't matter to me. I said it's not worth fighting over. I really do mean I'm tired of fighting over stupid stuff like the house which in the big picture is not worth it. Before, I would have fought to get my way. I think he has noticed these things. I have also just let him leave instead of before saying why don't you hang around a while. I said goodbye and smiled but did not give him a kiss which I had been doing.

I am also doing things that make me happy and that is how I explained my trip. It is a change to do these things and it takes "thinking" to do because it is not my normal way of thinking. But I do see value in it, for both of us.

On the MC front I had told her I didn't think we were getting anywhere. She wants us to come together next visit and have a "taking stock" appointment. Take a look at where we are and where we want to go. I had gotten to the point where I thought this was a "cheeseless tunnel" too. I am going to tell her that I want to set some goals. I wish I would have read DR a long time ago because I feel like I wouldn't have wasted so much time.

So, I kind of feel like I have made maybe some really, really tiny steps since I have started implementing some DB and DR techniques and to be honest I feel like I am a better person because of it. But, I also feel like I have only really been at it maybe 3-4 weeks. We have been married 25 years so I think it may take a while. The D word has not come up in a long, long time so I think that is a positive. Don't know if it will come up in our joint counseling session - I certainly hope not! I'm still seriously thinking of the DB coach. Just haven't pulled the trigger yet.

For some reason I can't get the signature to work. It keeps saying it is too long. I'll keep working on that.

Thanks everyone for your advice. As someone new to this I really value other's opinions of what has worked and what is way off base.

[complicated]

I thought I posted earlier but maybe something went wrong. I'm still here. Went out of town to watch D18 play. Think H was mad I went but I went for me and D18. She had to fly back with the team so H drove the 3 hours to pick her up from school. I offered to go with him (because it was late and he has fallen asleep at the wheel before) but told him I understood if he wanted to go by himself which he did.

He has been much nicer and I haven't had any slips in the last week. I have been doing the 180s and think he has been noticing. There have been a couple of instances where I would have pushed for a discussion, but I told him let me know when you're ready to discuss. D15 thinks she should have anything she wants. Me not so much so I would like to come to an agreement on this, so I'm waiting. H usually gives them whatever they want. This has been part of our problem, dealing with the kids.

We also had some work done at the house and he was not quite happy but I was. I am having it redone eventhough it is an inconvience to me (since I'm living there)because at this point it is not a big deal. Before I would have tried to prove my point but I am seeing that it really isn't worth it. I could tell when I told him that it wasn't a big deal to me that we could have it redone that he was a little surprised.

So AS I am trying to stay on course and do the 180s. So far so good and I actually feel better about it. I think he does notice little changes but I know he doesn't believe they are here to stay.

Also had a talk with the MC. I had told her previously I did not think we were getting anywhere. We are having a joint session next time to see where we're at and where we want to go. Just curious to see what H thinks but I too think this is a "cheeseless tunnel". He is still very depressed and maybe he will feel better going but I think I will probably discontinue. I have really thought about a DB coach just haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Really wish I would have bought and read the books earlier. He hasn't mentioned the D word in a long time but I am giving him space which I think he needs.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

[kat727]

I really think one of the most important things you can do is not feed off of what he gives you. If you are in a good mood it is because of you and nothing he has said or done. Also don't let his reactions bring you down. Really connect to yourself and your feelings.

I believe that you still might pull back some more and not initiate these little conversations. Give him the time and space to figure out what is going on for him. He needs to figure out your value for himself.

hang in there, kat