I guess it can go either way. I have seen where the children do not hold the anger because the cheater worked hard at repairing that relationship between them and the children.
I do believe that the children have a right to know as those choices affected their lives in a negative way. Its their choice to make their own minds on that relationship afterwards.
I do understand your point of view KML.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
First, the kids nearly always eventually, figure out the OW/OM anyhow. Yet somehow they CAN resent the LBSer for being the one to tell them. I've seen it happen.
I'm not suggesting you hide or lie for him. Just saying the "don't kill the messenger" phrase can flare up and bite you.
And it's often later in life, when the older child reflects on the news that was delivered & by whom, and they wonder about the motivation for telling.
When it's the LBSer telling them, I've found that the kids usually infer a desire to punish or hurt the WAS by disclosing to the kids.
It's NOT fair, I know. I'm just saying that's what I've seen. In one wrenching moment, my niece said to my sister "WHY did you have to tell me? I didn't ask you about it yet!"
Do get your finanical/legal ducks in order FIRST. For your sake, assume he's either hiding assets or debts (debts YOU two will "Share") so you must protect yourself fast. Talk to the L about how and a paralegal isn't going to have all the answer's you'll need soon...maybe the basics but not enough. The parents make it more complicated.
As for staying in the house WITH the mil, that's kind of you --maybe even logical, but is it going to help you GAL at all?
Won't it alleviate your h's situation and put all the burden on you and NONE on him? From your comments it seems as if there are "options" you want to offer him, (other than divorce terms)...
Is that true? If so, what are those options?
Do You want to "try & work this out".... IF, 'x' and 'y'?
IMO,
HE will either
1) NOT want a divorce b/c among other things, the logistics of his being single are bad for him.
OR
2) he will NOT want a divorce because he loves you and has simply failed to keep his vows...
in which case you'd have to decide a course of action based on CHANGES made (changes that were NOT made after the first affair...)
so, his success record on fidelity and lessons learned isn't...successful....
OR
3) he DOES want out, in which case you'll be finding out that much faster...and able to move along more quickly b/c you wont' stall out "Waiting"...
OR
4) he "doesn't know what [he] wants" ---easiest thing for him to "decide" is not to decide.
-in which case you can decide to ride along in limbo hell indefinitely,
or you can take charge of your life. IMO, you have not done so yet.
If you stay b/c HE does not know what HE wants, You can show your kids a dysfunctional marriage for that much longer AND prevent yourself from moving forward in your life or from meeting a man who treats you well...
OR you can show your kids that you can treat you better.
You're a smart enough woman to know that a man with THIS history of infidelity,
who never repaired the original problems that went into the cheating, is not likely to stop....
A man who has a wife caring for the kids AND helping with HIS parents, all WHILE HE CHEATS
and mismanages money so he can't even argue that he's a good provider and dad...is NOT a man you can set an example of marriage with. Show your children and yourself that you are a woman who can and will do better by being in charge of her life...not letting someone else dictate YOUR happiness.
I simply don't know what it would take to succeed with this man b/c I have no idea what - IF ANYTHING - HE is willing to do or work on in himself.
Best case scenario, you two plod through this and stay married by
you get in great shape and feel good about yourself
and HE works his butt off to regain your trust, AND he has this visible reminder of your attractiveness and desire for him
(b/c you were willing to lose weight to be attractive to him, b/c YOU desire him)
and you valiantly stay together with his transparency and effort and with your forgiveness and attitude... These^^^ are no no small feats, you'll still have to work on wondering where the hell he is, HE will have to be transparent...and deal with your anger, as will you,
and you'll have to process this so you don't feel like a doormat for putting up with this again.
I can't see it without huge efforts from him, which he's never done before, if I recall right.
In theory, in TIME, and w/valiant effort on both ends, you could make it work. What would that look like? Is it at all realistic?
Do you want to take him back and WORK on this - b/c it will be work on your end too?
Do you think HE wants to, or even can? Why didn't he the first time?
In short, [b] the WORST case scenario is NOT you two getting a divorce...
the worst case scenario is you two staying married, in THIS m, and staying miserable.
Please make a choice other than that one...for your kids and for YOU!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I can't begin to thank all of you for your advice and guidance. This has been a life saver for me, as I'm not ready to tell any family/friends about what is going on...I've been spending a lot of time reflecting, going through some sadness, some anger, and making plans for the future. I'm sure I have a long road ahaed of me, but it will get better.
I definitely do not want to tell the kids the reason "why" - I don't want them to hate me as the messenger, and I don't know if they'll actually want to know that right now...
I'm having trouble detaching, but getting better at it each day that goes by. I'm not constantly checking the cell phone usage on the website like I was in the last few weeks - I still check daily, but not every 10 minutes...and it's hard to detach when we're still going along like nothing is happening (he has no idea that I know, and I'm not saying anything until talking to legal counsel).
BTW - I have my first talk with a lawyer today - it's a free 1/2 hr phone consultation for a family legal center, and I have my questions lined up. I also have asked my sister-in-law if she knows of divorce attorneys or mediators (under the pretense for my friend), so we'll see if she has someone to recommend.
I've done a lot of soul searching, and there are only 3 options that I see for me: 1) After speaking with and reatining a lawyer, going for immediate divorce. Pros would be I don't have to pretend I'm the clueless wife anymore - Cons would be it could be a financial and emotioinal mess (especially with the in-law situation)
2) After speaking with and retaining a lawyer, going for a solution to paying off our debt together - I would be willing to stay in the house with H as we work to pay off the debt, so as not to uproot my children and needing to find an immediate place to stay. I don't know if an agreement could be drawn up that H & I could sign, saying we would both pay off debt, etc, and maybe have specific nights where we are "off duty" (for example, I could have Mon, Thur, Sat nights off to go out and do what I want while H watches the kids, and H could have Tues, Wed, Fri nights "off duty" where I watch the kids - I'm going to ask the awyer today about this, not sure if this is what a separation agreement/procedure may be like?).
3) H begs me to not end the marriage - I don't honestly know if this is possible for me at this point, but I would be willing to go to counseling if he wanted to. If anything, I will need to learn to at least get along with H, as if we divorce, we will always be in each others lives. HOWEVER, this would require from H: - agree to couple and individual counseling - full, complete disclosure of everything and 100% transparency going forward. This means I check phone records everyday, I check his private inbox every day, I get to ask him, whenever I feel the need, questions and he will need to be transparent. He will have to agree to have him question him when he "goes out with the guys". - I may even need him to leave his job and find other work (she works there, and probably will not leave). - He will have to have his paycheck direct deposited into our joint account, and draw out what he needs from that (currently he gives me most of his paycheck he cashes each week, and keeps $150 for "his" play/spending $$). He has complained that I do not go over the bills with him, or I take care of it all, but when I've tried to give him bills, he says no, why don't you keep paying it. - He will need to do his own laundry - if he wants me to do it, I will charge $20 (30, 40)/week - He will need to be there for me, when I need him - He will come to our kids drs appointments (another stressful thing I mentioned, my S9 was diagnosed with arthritis, and had to have a proceudre on his knee. H came for the procedure, but I've taken S to Dr, Rhematologist, Opthatmologist, etc by myself). - He has to bend over backwards and jump through hoops to win my love and affection back. - He needs to take me out a minimum of once/week (I don't care if it's movies, coffee shop, whatever) - he has to be the one to plan and coordinate it, not me.
This is just a list that I've started in my notebook, so I'm sure I will add to it. I really don't think H will choose option #3, but it's good to have a list that I can refer of what is important to me...
On a positive note, I am feeling really good about my appearance and weight and I'm more mindful of keeping the changes going. Yesterday, I had 6 people at work complement me about how great my hair looked, or how much they liked my outfit/jewlery - boy did that feel great! My D12 is overweight, and she wants to jog around our neighborhood right after school, as she's been losing some weight too. H didn't like this, but she's responsible and she won't be out for more than a 1/2 hr, so I'm letting her do it. One of her friends is coming with her, so I think they will be fine and watch out for one another.
Again, thank you for listening and for all your advice. I hope I can give back as much as I have received already...
Thanks, Chatterbug. You are right. No contact = new job.
I spoke with the attorney yesterday for my free 1/2 hr consultation. She was great. Explained a lot about the laws and types of divorce in my state (contested/uncontested). She gave me a lot of advice too - she recommends talking to him before filing for divorce, and if we can work amicably on a division of the marital assets, then meet with her, it would be a lot less expensive for her to just draw up the paperwork. If we can't do that, or if it's going to be contested, then it would be more money.
Now for the bad news, the retainer fee. I have to save up $$ for the retainer fee (and there's is more affordable than other attorneys' fees in the area). It will take me at least 2-3 months to save up for the retainer fee...so my new question is, do I continue to GAL and act like a don't know while saving up the fee? Or should I talk to H sooner? I honestly don't know if I can "act like a don't know" for the next several months...
At any rate, I won't be talking to H about this for at least another week. I'm running to the jewelry store this morning with my wedding ring to see how much that is worth as part of my saving for the retainer fee (won't sell it today, but it will be good to have this information). I'm also running to the local bank to open my own checking/savings account. Per lawyer, anything with just my name would still be considered part of the marital assets to be divided, but at least if I have that account, and things turn bad with H after we talk, I can pull out the $$ in our joint acct, so I won't have to worry he will go and wipe everything out. I can then continue to pay bills and stuff from my own acct.
I'm also writing out a budget of all the expenses, and seeing where I can cut/save. I always have a general idea of the expenses, but seeing it on paper, and how much I can save every month will hopefully move things along faster, and I'll be able to save the retainer fee that much sooner.
GAL and work on yourself. Work with the children and get them into support classes to deal with this. Get with their teachers to monitor their marks and activities. Get with family to help you and your children. Become self-sufficient. Determine where you failed on repeating the same mistakes from before. Come to terms with that. Determine where the pattern started again with your H. Determine what you , your H and both of you could have done to break the cycle. Determine if it was going to happen anyways no matter what you did. Then forgive yourself. Then get ready to deal with the fall out of painting yourself as a weak person who allows people to walk over you. Your self-esteem is going to tumble downwards. So start now with finding a church or community that offers group support for Divorcing women and group support on boundaries and communication. Be very pro-active on your support group. So you can move through the numbness and come out the other side ready to catch up on those years you lost with yourself and your children. Then repeat the following expression. "It is not my fault. I am a good person. I am a good mother. I am a good wife. I am a good friend."
Work with H on an amicable division of material assets and co-parenting plan.
IF you decide to work on the R down the road. You will have the confidence in yourself and your choices.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Just writing, as I find it therapeutic. Bad day today emotionally...I'm trying to detach, but it's hard. It's hard for me to act normal, while getting financial ducks in a row, but I've had a few moments to myself where I can cry, scream, etc. Looked up an old therapist I had years ago that I really liked, and will call to make an appointment with them on Monday. Also looking up divorce support groups - my son is currently seeing a counselor for some of his issues, and they're starting a new group at their place for children of divorced/separated parents, so I'm going to ask about that.
I'm repeating that mantra that I'm a good person, wife, mother, friend and that helps. I've also added the mantra "I'm worth a lot", and that helps too. I just need an outlet to get out some of my emotions...the hard thing is H still talks about getting new christmas decorations for outside, who will get the next new car (we were talking about getting a new car next year when most of the debt is paid off), and it's killing me to not say something, but I take a deep breath and say the time will come soon to talk to him, as soon as I have my finances in order.
Kids have their friends over now, and H is outside, so I have some time to myself - I'm going to run an errand and have a good cry....
Having an up and down week. The more I think, the more I'm resigned to the fact that I only have 2 options - divorce now, or divorce later. I don't think option 3 is something I want any longer. But since I've been better at detaching and practicing DB, hubby has been kinder toward me, and we have spent some quality time together (for family function and by ourselves).
I think I'm going to tell him I know about the affair after Thanksgiving, but before December hits, as I don't know how much longer I can keep this information inside me. Either he'll be mad and want to move out immediately, or he'll want to work together to continue paying off the debt. I also think he may want to work things out, but I don't know about that option for me anymore. If he wants divorce right away, or moves out right away, I'll cancel all the pre-arranged payments with the debt collectors and we can work an arrangement to divide the debt. I've
