WAW seems to be making positive steps...whattodo?

[Dm45]

Hi, brand new here. Try to be brief.
Found out about her emotional affair on 9/10. Immediately sought counseling. Her main issue is I have been a terrible provider...true...I have held on to failing business too long and let her work herself into the ground. Working extra job now. Cant believe I let it go loke that. Moved to her sisters 9/15. Seemed to be making progress until 9/26 she disappeared and moved in w/OM. Filed protective order which she dropped. No contact for 2 weeks, then she tried contacting kids. (20,17,16) who have strong convictions about this and won't respond to her. Then she contacted me and agreed to talk/meet.

We have been talking again, and some baby steps are she's saying "I sleep in guest room" "I'm trying." "I've been praying again" "I'm trying to give my heart back to God again" and says she's reading. Asked what she's reading.."Flying Solo...it's by a woman who got divorced and felt a lot of what I'm feeling."

Asked if she'd be willing to read other things as well...she said yes.

Says she's guarding her heart. Says she's discovered she has a lot of anger at me, God, everything.

What should I suggest for her to read, watch, etc. since she does seem to want to work on things?
Should I have her watch the walk away wife YouTube clip with me?

Thanks

[Crimson]

DM -

Welcome to the boards - and sorry that you find yourself here. As is often said here "it's the best worst place to be".

You seem to be very focused on what your wife is or is not doing - very understandable, but also very much a road to nowhere. You really can't get her to do or realize anything. The philosophical basis of nearly everything on these boards is "you can only work on and control you".

Though it does seem as if your wife is making some tiny steps along the way, don't read too much into it. You might find that your WAW moves around her emotions with the predictabilty of loose fire hose. I certainly did.

What have you done for you? Have you read The Divorce Remedy yet? If not, get on that ASAP. Have you listened to and internalized any of the criticisms your wife has had of you? What are they? Do you accept any of them other than the "poor provider" role? Why or why not?

Use this as an opportunity to improve yourself - for you. That is the only way change will stick. And, at least in my case, change is what is key.

Post often.

Crimson

[AnotherStander]

Hi, brand new here. Try to be brief.

Actually the more we know about your sitch, the easier it is to offer advice.

Moved to her sisters 9/15. Seemed to be making progress until 9/26 she disappeared and moved in w/OM. Filed protective order which she dropped. No contact for 2 weeks, then she tried contacting kids. (20,17,16) who have strong convictions about this and won't respond to her. Then she contacted me and agreed to talk/meet.

It is really unusual for someone to turn around that quickly. I wonder if OM broke it off with her and you are her plan B. If so then be wary, her heart may not be into returning.

We have been talking again, and some baby steps are she's saying "I sleep in guest room"

Please clarify, is she back home or is she offering to move back home? She wants you to sleep in the guest room or she wants to? If she's not home yet, then I would tell her you're not ready for her to come home. Not until there's a stronger indication from her that she's willing to work on your marriage and isn't just looking for a place to bunk. If she wants to move into the guest room then that is certainly not progress.

What should I suggest for her to read, watch, etc. since she does seem to want to work on things?

You need to read DR if you haven't, but I wouldn't suggest that she read it because you need to implement the DB techniques but they won't be effective if she knows what you're doing. You might suggest she read 5 Love Languages and you should too.

[25yearsmlc]

DM

As Crimson says, do NOT focus on what your wife can do or learn to get her back.

Focus on what YOU can do to show her that marriage to you can be better/different than before. That's key to getting her to return.

She may return temporarily b/c of shame as a mother, but I've never seen shame restore a marriage. I do think you being the best dad you can be, helps her to see your value and is a bit of a turn on as well.

What are YOU doing to help her feel more financially secure with you? Did you include her with financial decisions?


What were her other complaints even if you don't think they are valid, what did she SAY bothered her? Are any of them valid? IF so, work on those traits to change them and to become the best YOU that you can become.

You want to be a man only a fool would leave...

So You must counter her negative images with positives to undermine her views. Most of that will be done by you changing your behaviors. We call those "180s".

READ THE BOOK(S) THAT FORMS THE BASIS OF THIS SITE...which are "Divorce Busting" and "Divorce Remedy". The 2nd one is really an updated version so if you can only get one, then get the latter.

Unlike rehashing the past and examining childhood issues, which have value but are not considered "Solution based", THIS site focuses on doing whatever it is that will HELP your marriage

and doing less/none of what hurts it.

Many marriage counselors don't practice solution based therapy so ASK them....and go.

And read those books (DO NOT ask your w to read those books--they are for you only. Otherwise she'll think your "changes" are merely tactics to get her back and she won't trust them)

But you can ask her to read something like 'What About the Kids?" Which is a book about what divorce does to kids.

And get a counselor and tell us what you are DOING to change?

[Dm45]

Her heart is not into returning, but she has said she is "trying".

She is not back home. She sleeps in guest room @OMs house.

Yes, I have read DR, wearing it out!
A major goal is that she be out of his house! No idea how to break that down into chunks...

We have several friends that have offered a place for her to stay while we work through this.

[Dm45]

For me: read divorce remedy every day. Gone back to playing guitar in church, which I quit for several weeks when this happened.

Other criticisms: yes working on those. My list so far

[list]
[*]Sarcasm
[*]Ignoring or degrading her advice/opinions
[*]Talking downtown her
[*]Criticizing how she handles things
[*]Raising voice
[*]Being cross to her in public
[*]Lecturing tone
[*]Ignoring needs
[*]Unsympathetic when she's tired, sick, upset, frustrated
[*]Always having to be right, or not admitting when I'm wrong
[*]Not supporting her interests
[*]Taking her for granted

I came up with this list after listening to her at our 1st and only counseling session. Used her generalizations to analyze my past behavior, sent h er a letter repenting.

One of her statements "You let me work all those extra hours for years while business was failing and didn't do anything. Who does that?"

I accept all of them because, shamefully, they are true. Not intentionally, but out of focusing on my own frustrations I have ignored her needs.

[Dm45]

I am working as much side work as I can get.

She won't be involved in financial decisions right now...refuses to plan with me.

She has said she wants to try, has appt w/counselor, and is willing to read. What should I suggest? (suggestion for 5 Love Languages noted)

[25yearsmlc]

I am working as much side work as I can get.

She won't be involved in financial decisions right now...refuses to plan with me.

She has said she wants to try, has appt w/counselor, and is willing to read. What should I suggest? (suggestion for 5 Love Languages noted)

Suggestions were already made so I hope you are "hearing us.".

I don't know what suggestions YOU can make to HER about what SHE ought to read b/c it seems so odd that a woman who has left you b/c she felt mistreated (and by your own admission, she was) and has found OM who is treating her better I presume.

But here's a book that MIGHT help if she's truly confused...
"A Year by the Sea:Thoughts of an Unfinished Woman" by Joan Anderson. The autobiographical book traces the changes of a woman who has not been living authentically and or has had to basically serve others instead of having her needs met. She moves to their seaside cottage for a year to gather herself and write and work out the relationship issues she and her h have.

But the author DOES reconcile with her husband and they do seem happier but it takes a "year by the sea" to do so.

Do you actually believe she's in the guest room at OM's house?

You've been apart what, 6 weeks? Most WASs don't believe that an LBSer can change that fast. ( I don't either) What convinces them that your changes are real?

consistent change + sufficient TIME = change SHE can believe in...

Please stop obsessing about getting HER to see things your way right now, b/c you are the one who needs to hear HER and see things her way, imo.

There is an OM in the picture now so remember that since you are the only one here working on the m, and the only one YOU control, stop worrying about what books SHE should read (why don't YOU read more?) or getting other people to talk to her.

YOU are the one who you can change and you said you NEED to change...why not put your energy there?

And finally, if you want to Keep The Road Home, Paved & Smooth, involve as few people as possible. That only makes it harder for her to come back.

Plus, if you keep challenging her choices when you know there is some validity to them, then you remind her to defend them and that makes them more cemented in her mind. And you prove to her that she is "right" to have left b/c you "still don't get it".

Do you get that?

Oh, and Don't use the kids as weapons...

Anyhow, here's the post I think you need to read to get a better handle on how your wife is viewing things...mind you, the woman who wrote this had been apart from her newly changed LBS husband, for 6 months...a lot longer than you've been at this.

FROM A WAW, TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H. Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.

So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail.

You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her but you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.
__

[25yearsmlc]

ps

why not let the counselor suggest reading materials for both of you? Then just worry about what YOU are reading.

If there's a chance you two can make this work, it'll be b/c your wife sees changes in YOU before it's too late.

No book will do that. Only YOU can.

Dig deep and do the work.

[25yearsmlc]

here are some "rules" for newbies you need to read and READ and really take in...


These are "Rules" for newcomers assembled/organized by Sandi, consisting of principles based on MWD's Div Busting approach, (& edited SLIGHTLY by yours truly). I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I know I did.

FOR WHEN YOU GET "THE BOMB"….

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then, don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) In short, No Snooping.

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne/perfume, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, do 180s… (so if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her to initiate), then be rather scarce or minimal with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short & simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! (No matter what time he/she comes home.) You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy YOUR life and time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life too.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. The supposed changes will look like "tactics" to get them back & then they won't believe the changes are lasting.


19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive & fun to be with. (As hard as this is, remember that angry, sad, pouting people do NOT ATTRACT others to them). The FUN somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Never lose your temper! (That reinforces their choice to leave). Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill or be over the top in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient……VERY, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do NOT interrupt them when they are speaking, OR correct them, and stop what you may be working on or doing, to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. (Listening better never hurts.)

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell). Silence can be the loving thing to "not say."

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Calmness is soothing to the calm person AND their "audience". Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only, NOT your spouse. The more you tell them what you are doing (or trying to show them) the more your actions will seem manipulative & insincere.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write or a single dramatic gesture. (Not saying not to do/say those too, but focus on consistent changes, over time. That earns the spouse's belief in the changes).

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever, & even when you truly feel desperate & needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. Very important that you get this concept.

31. When you communicate with your spouse, do not focus on yourself; instead, focus on them. If in person, make eye contact.

32. Do not believe any of what THEY SAY and less than 50% of what THEY DO. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared, AND OR, b/c they want to justify their leaving.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes! Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day, unless absolutely necessary. (That means only in urgent matters.)

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Do Not convince yourself that being miserable or sad shows how much you care for your spouse. It's not attractive or appealing, period.

39. If there is OW/OM in the picture, don't focus on them. BE the better choice, which means being a spouse only a fool would leave.

40. Know that you really will be alright in the long run, that your personal work will yield good things regardless of the choices others make. You will be happy again.