Mixed Signals From Walk-Away-Husband

[littleGTO]

FierceHope,
As I was reading your posts I felt like I was reading a lot of the things I've written or felt.

My sitch is very similar to yours in SOME ways--at least emotionally.

I too love his HUGS and wonder about initiation of ANY physical contact. It always makes ME feel better when he initiates contact but really MAGNIFIES the rejection I feel when my contact is not reciprocated.

My H and I have always been friends too & he gave me the "I always want to remain friends w you no matter what happens" speech. I too answered that I did not think I could be friends w him if decided to end our M.

Yet that is what we seem to be these days--at least on the days he's willing to open to me and talk. Other days he is more of a stranger.

Everyone keeps telling me to detach and GAL. We only have control over ourselves. It is very hard to stop obsessing about your M sitch (I still am) but I realize that this may just be the very answer I need for my H to start taking NOTICE.

SInce your H first enjoyed pursuing you maybe he would enjoy the pursuit again (but first you need to be far less available to him)!

[AnotherStander]

Ultimately, I told him that I want him to be happy, and if this is the only way... I *did* tell him I loved him. I know - big mistake!

I think that was OK. If you're talking about S and you're talking about opening the cage door and letting them go it doesn't hurt to remind them that you do love them and that letting them go is an extension of that love.

I also told him that I didn't think I could be friends with him after a divorce. He said he understood that, and if that's what happens, he accepts it.

I suppose just SAYING that was another form of pressure to him.

I don't think so, you're just letting him know that D may not be the cake-eating-festival he imagines it to be where he can be buddies with you while parading a stream of women in front of you too and telling you all about his sex life.

He came home, we ate and watched TV, and it was like the talk never happened!

That seems to be pretty typical. I know in the case of my W she would forget most of the R conversation almost as soon as it was over while I would dwell on the details for days. I think that's why Michele says no R talks, because they're rarely productive at this stage and the WAS isn't assigning them any value anyway.

As for being friends with him... We were always friends!

Then a 180 for you might be to stop being such a good friend to him. While this may seem counterintuitive, the idea is to change the dynamics of the R. Shake things up. Confuse your H. Make him wonder what's going on. Be mysterious.

But, it seemed like he felt rejected when I didn't hug him immediately... just a feeling I got... Maybe THAT is part of our problem?

Try not to microanalyze every little thing that happens between the two of you, it'll drive you crazy! Just remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. Don't be concerned about whether every hug or touch or thing you said was right or wrong. Just stick to general DB'ing principals and be patient. Look for long-term trends, not short hops.

Regarding the hugging, I would cut way back on initiating them. Again, you want to make him wonder what you're up to. Lovingly detach.

[TJP]

AnotherStander....you always give such good advice. I'm impressed how thoughtful your replies are to everyone you talk to. You have a gift, I'm glad you're sharing it with the rest of us. :o)

[FierceHope]

Thank you, Turtlegirl. I read your thread, and there are a lot of emotional similarities! So many of your thoughts have also gone through my head... I'm trying to figure out a way for him to "chase" me, but you're right, I need to be MUCH less available to him! When we first met, I was always doing SOMETHING! Mostly crafts of some kind. And I still have a lot of hobbies, but I tend to do it all at home now. If there was a place to go, I WOULD!

And thank you, AnotherStander! I agree with TJP - you really help. I appreciate hearing that I may not have backslid as far as I thought. But microanalyzing? <sigh> I guess that is exactly what I've been doing... My *brain* knows that some things just ARE. But, my heart grasps for any straw of hope from him.

I am working on being less of a "friend," but I admit that I haven't managed to do it well... And mysterious? HOW do I do that without being rude? I've thought about just leaving the house to spend time with a friend, and not say a word to him. To just LEAVE. But, last Saturday, in an attempt to GAL, I got ready to visit this friend, and when I had shoes on, keys in hand, we looked at each other and I told him where I was going. It just seemed rude not to! I also don't want to set a bad precedent for him to start doing the same, you know?

This is all so very DIFFICULT to figure out what to do and when! I'm not very good at the Last Resort Technique, and pretty mediocre at my 180's. I hope I'm getting better, though. <sigh>

Maybe I'll go do something this evening instead of just sitting at home, watching TV... Anyone have any ideas besides reading Divorce Busting / Remedy at the library? Not mysterious enough?

[AnotherStander]

AnotherStander....you always give such good advice. I'm impressed how thoughtful your replies are to everyone you talk to. You have a gift, I'm glad you're sharing it with the rest of us. :o)

Awww, thank you so much!

I'm trying to figure out a way for him to "chase" me, but you're right, I need to be MUCH less available to him!

That's exactly it, if you want him to pursue then you need to distance. Just like when you dated!

And thank you, AnotherStander! I agree with TJP - you really help.

Now y'all are just making me blush

And mysterious? HOW do I do that without being rude? I've thought about just leaving the house to spend time with a friend, and not say a word to him. To just LEAVE.

You don't have to leave and not say anything, being mysterious just means not fully disclosing everything. Get dressed up (as hot as possible) and tell him you're going out for a while. If he asks where then say "I'm going out with a friend" and leave it at that. If he keeps pushing then say something like "it's no big deal, are you jealous?" That should shut him up Let him wonder who it is you're meeting and what you're doing.

I also don't want to set a bad precedent for him to start doing the same, you know?

Well he's already told you he's done and wants a D, what worse can he visit on you? What you need to do is change the dynamics of the R and put YOU in control instead of him. Get out, get a life, be mysterious about it, it puts YOU in control. And what you'll find is the more you GAL, the more you will LIKE having control and the less you will need H! That's the whole point. We all have to get into a position where we don't NEED our spouses. We may still WANT them, but "need" allows them to have control over you whereas "want" doesn't. "Want" is optional.

Maybe I'll go do something this evening instead of just sitting at home, watching TV... Anyone have any ideas

Join a gym and/ or exercise class. Take a painting class, around here they have places called "Painting with a Twist" which offer a 3 hour session where they walk you through how to paint an acrylic painting, you leave with a finished painting, it's fun! Go to a clay place and paint some greenware. Or take a pottery throwing class. Go to the park and walk or jog. Join a volleyball league. Take up knitting. Sit under a tree and journal. Grab a friend and go to a bar. Or go alone! Get dressed up and go to the museum or an art exhibition. Volunteer at a local shelter. Only two things matter- 1)get out and away from H and 2)have fun!

[TJP]

I was just thinking...maybe I'm in more control than I thought. He hasn't lived at home since June. He was still living overseas. Anyway, the time between June and Sept I was waiting for his decision. He didn't want to come home, said ILYBNILWY. He moved into an apartment and has pretty much been traveling most of the time he's been back. Ds and I haven't communicated with him in two weeks. Completely silent. He has not contacted us either.

I have YD at home, OD in college a couple hours away. We are VERY close. Anyway, after reading some posts, I am believing now that I can be in control. He did come over to the house to get his passport. I didn't give him a key to the house. It really surprised him and pissed him off. That decision was huge for me. I was doing everything to make him happy. Hoping it would make him want to come home. Not giving him a key wasn't making H happy at all!

I do know now that nothing I say is going to bring him home. He has to come home because he wants to. When he wants to.I realize now that I don't have to let him come home. I know this sounds silly to a lot of you, but for me to be in control of a relationship issue, is rare for me. Especially since we've been going thru all this mess.

I miss him terribly, but don't miss not talking to him right now. I'm interested to see what he does for thanksgiving. Our families don't know what's going on. My family spends the holiday with my brothers family. So, right now it's just me and my girls. H has no where to go. I bet he'll schedule another business trip to keep him gone. He just keeps running and hiding.

Anyway, I've been thinking more of my future and my Ds futures. As much as this hurts, I know that we have to move on. I'm not giving up, I'm just not hiding from reality anymore. I can choose what I do next.

We have a large house and a big yard to take care of. I'm tired of taking care of it. I have been doing it for most of two years now. I just came in from raking leaves. I don't want to even think about shoveling snow this winter! I have actually thought about finding a smaller place for my YD and I to move into after the holidays. The last thing my H said to me before he left on this last business trip, was to,"Don't go and sign any lease or anything like that." Pththththth!!! I have also contacted a lawyer about a consultation. I just want info and know what the girls and I will be entitled to if he doesn't come back. He has never asked for a D. He just talks about us working together and not hiring lawyers.

So, maybe this is a step for me. I'm in control of my own future and it may not be what he wants.

[chatterbug]

Tough love is about setting boundaries and not enabling his poor choices.

The we will remain friends speech is just that. A speech. It is to ease his guilt at his actions by saying. See she agree's I can behave this way towards her and she will still be there for me. That is one of those conversations they say and as long as it sounds like you agree or validate. Then you agree to everything they are doing.

If you had said.

No. You lose me as a lover and as a friend. We will be acquaintances with a shared history and no more.

That would have given him something to think about. Most likely there would have been some crocodile tears and some well wishing tossed in for good measure but it would have been a truth date tossed at him that would have hit home later.

So tough love. If someone says they are removing you from your life. Then you stop meeting their emotional needs. You stop doing their laundry. Stop having sex with them. Stop being intimate with them. Stop being around them.

You explain this to them once. Then you stick to your boundaries.

Let them experience the life they just said to you they want.

And when they drop a few crumbs to see if you nibble.

You stick with your tough love and boundaries.

It is at this moment when they will experience crisis. The crisis you went through when they gave you the speech.

This is where they start to come around and work hard at matching their words with their actions.

Or they just carry on leaving you.

Or you give in and accept crumbs and they carry on with keeping you in a holding pattern.

[FierceHope]

Thanks for the extensive list of ideas, AnotherStander! Wow... I live in a small, rural town right now, but that doesn't mean there is nothing to do!

And thank you for explaining more about Tough Love, chatterbug. I can definitely see where you are right about that. I DO need to set some boundaries... And I will work on that, too. I just need to get past feeling like if I do that, then there's no hope. But, right now, what have I to lose? He doesn't want to be married to me, and I don't think I could maintain a friendship with him afterwards, so why NOT start as I mean to end? I think the only thing holding me back right now is that it's just NICE having him here at all! And that isn't strong of me, and I need to be strong, or there NEVER will be a chance at reconciliation! This is quite probably the hardest thing I've ever tried... <slump>

So, I'm working on being less available to my husband for right now... Boundaries and Tough Love to come later...

Here is Friday's "Journal" (for lack of a better description):

Anyway, I work about 45 minutes from home, in a small city (or large town?). I agreed to run an errand for my husband after work on Friday (it benefited me, too, so it wasn't all about him!), and he asked me to let him know when I was headed to the store (long story about WHY he needed to know, but he did). So, after work I went to the mall instead, and pretty much just browsed around a bookstore for about an hour and a half or so. When I called to let him know I was headed to the place, he was surprised it took this long! He had expected me to call RIGHT after work! Hah!

So, when I got home, he had already fed our cats, and given medicine to the one who needs it. I unwound a bit, took a shower, and started settling in to our "normal" routine. So, I stopped and called my friend instead. She invited me over, so I left. I can't remember if he asked where I was going, but since it was getting late, and I only have the one friend locally, it isn't hard to figure out. Plus, all our marital issues aside, my husband isn't dumb. I hung out with her for a couple hours, and then headed home. My husband and I watched a TV show or two and headed to bed... Nightly hug, holding hands, and a confused me as usual.

I'm torn between kicking him out of our bedroom because of my pride and the whole "Tough Love" thing... And what my DB coach Laurie told me about asking myself if what I am about to do or say will bring him close or push him away! I don't KNOW if kicking him out of our bed would make him realize what he is going to lose or if it would just simply plant his feet more firmly in the direction he says he wants! And it's ALL because of these mixed signals from him...

<groan>

[FierceHope]

Saturday morning I got up, and fed our cats. My husband was getting up too, but I told him I had it, and that I knew he didn't like giving our cat his shot on his left (we alternate sides). He said he didn't mind doing that, but thanked me just the same.

And, since I had already agreed to two movies this weekend, we went to catch a matinee in town (did I mention that he is a huge movie buff?), and when we returned, I called my friend again. She was out running an errand, but said she would call when she got back. So, I just started reading... My husband asked if I was going to see my friend; I said she wasn't home and so we acted like all was normal, and he would share bits of whatever he was reading or came across online. An hour later, she called back, but I didn't say her name out loud. Then, I started getting ready to head over, and I decided to "dress up" a smidge. Just jeans instead of yoga pants!

He asked where I was going! All cheerful, like he didn't have a care in the world, but he DID ask... I said I was going to go see a friend. I visited her, but I made sure to leave in time to be home to give our cat his medicine - I don't want him to think or feel like I'm abandoning the cats to him... Maybe I'm being silly about that, but I've taken him for granted in so many things, I don't want to do it regarding the cats, too...

But, while I was visiting my friend, we talked... I brought up how confused I was that he hadn't told his parents yet! At least, he didn't tell me he had. I love my in-laws, and I don't call as much as I probably should, so my friend suggested calling right then, since my husband wasn't here. I did.

I spoke to my mother-in-law first. I KNOW I wasn't able to keep some sadness out of my voice, but I just said I was doing okay when she asked. We talked a little, then she handed the phone to my father-in-law. He was his usual cheerful self. I heard my MIL in the background ask him to ask me what our plans were for Christmas!!! Confirmed: they don't know yet. I could see them avoiding talk of the future if they had an idea something was wrong, but asking outright? No... I wrapped up my call with them, speaking to MIL again, telling them both that I loved them.

When I went home, I took care of the cats and our evening and night time ritual was the same as before... Hug in bed and hold hands until we fall asleep.

But, as is usual for these past few months, I have a hard time falling asleep. I just can't figure out what to make of him!

Several weeks ago, when he was giving me MANY hugs a day, he even started hugging me on the couch, pulling me down to lay on top of him. I don't know why I couldn't take that (when I'm still tolerating him and his hugs in bed), but I told him that as much as I liked it, and how it WAS helping keep the "ball of hate" AT BAY, people who are just friends don't hug like that... It confused me. He apologized, and stopped hugging that way. A part of me is glad I said something, to help him realize WHAT he is doing, but another part MISSES it so much!

Perhaps THAT is why I haven't stopped the hugs or kicked him out of bed? If I knew he was cheating on me (emotional or physical), I would have NO problem kicking him out of our bedroom! But this? I just don't know the best way to get him to want me again, aside from trying to be less available to him...

[FierceHope]

ACK!!! I just got home, and two of the cats were there to welcome me home, as usual. But then, my husband actually got up out of his recliner to come greet me! Then, he opened his arms, saying something like "Welcome home hug." So, we hugged! Granted, he said it the way he gives me a good night hug, or even a good morning hug... He's doing it to prevent me from hating him and becoming vindictive later!

It's just that he hasn't gotten up to greet me, nor has he offered me a welcome home hug in SO long! Not since at least before I caved in, and all of THOSE gestures between the "bomb" and me "caving in" were essentially under duress - he didn't WANT to then.

But now? WHAT am I to make of this? I'm so confused by his behavior! Little things like getting up to meet each other at the door, welcoming the other home with hugs (and kisses), being genuinely happy to see the other again... ALL those things mean so much to me. They are just one way that I feel loved and cared for... Does he really not know how much it hurts to have him do these things when he still says he wants a divorce?

Is it possible the detaching is working? I know I can't backslide regardless, but it would be nice to have an idea...

Anyone have a clue for me?