I am new to this forum, but have been reading here for some time. I have read the DR book as well.
Just a quick overview: My partner of 18 years gave me the ILY But... speech two months ago. He will turn 40 this year. We were not married and for various reasons (sick parents, careers) we were maintaining our relationship long distance for the last couple of years. We saw each other often and talked every night for hours on the phone. There are no children involved. Neither of us wanted children. I am hoping my "non-traditional" status keeps folks from offering their advice.
In order to keep this first post short, I won't go into all the details, but he is definately having a MLC. He admitted as much.
I have since learned that there is an OW involved and has been for at least the last three months. I was, of course, the last to know. After reading this Board, I have no doubt that some of you know exactly how I felt when I learned of this and how much worse I feel now that they are more openly dating.
She is herself recently separated with two children.
Since the BD, we have kept in touch. I have done my best to stomp down on my emotions during those conversations but do not always succeed (especially when he accidently pocket dialled me and I overheard their sexual innuendoes) but I am trying to at least keep our friendship alive until I need to walk away.
Even at three months, I realize I am still much too attached and hurting. I am working on that.
What I am hoping for from you folks is guidance on how to be "the friend" without enabling him to cake-eat and make it easier to be with the OW. I do not think he has a clue how far down he has demoted me. I saw him two days ago for the first time in two months as I was in his town. He explained how he still wanted to be able to talk to me every night after work about all of the things we used to talk about just not about any relationship stuff. No mention of making any actual effort to see me.
I will provide more details in my next post as this is getting long and I understand that I am on moderation for now.
Welcome to DB Portia. Sorry you have to be here and hope that you find some help and solace.
I do wonder if the following was what you intended to say?
Quote:
I am hoping my "non-traditional" status keeps folks from offering their advice.
I am thinking you meant you hope your status does NOT keep folks from advising?
There are both married and LTR individuals on this forum, all are welcome.
It sounds like you have a unique sitch due to the geography issue. I know there have been other posts involving LDRs, perhaps an "old timer" can refer you.
I'm too new to offer much advice, but you definitely have my condolences.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
Yeah cause us 'traditoinalists' have done such a bang up job with the santicty of marriage right? ; )
There is no judgement here.
And if there is... there won't be long. You have my word on that. You click the notify button in the lower corner if you EVER feel attacked or unwelcome. OK?
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Which means despite the typo, my thread is up and running.
Here is a bit more of my sitch: Not only are there geographic issues, but as of the last visit, I did not get the Distance feeling from him. In fact, he held my hand in the car and it was me who pulled away (every time I thought of the OW). He will still tell me he loves me, just that he is confused. I was the distancer in our relationship and I have identified that this was one thing about our relationship that bothered him. I am ashamed to say that I didn't take those complaints as seriously as I should have. I am trying to look within myself to find out why.
As a 180, I now always say ILY back (sometimes I would not before) My question is: I have seen so many times not to say ILY - but if it is a 180 - is this a time to bend that rule?
I would love some practical advice on the distancing/pursuing dymanmic in MLC where I was the distancer in the relationship. Obviously and in the circumstances he no longer wants my affection butthen, as it says in the DR book, he might think this is "more of the same". I am having a hard time reconciling this and there is not much practical advice or suggestions for this situation that I have found.
Yeah cause us 'traditoinalists' have done such a bang up job with the santicty of marriage right? ; )
There is no judgement here.
And if there is... there won't be long. You have my word on that. You click the notify button in the lower corner if you EVER feel attacked or unwelcome. OK?
Thank you so much for your kind words, Jack.
The truth is, that most people have blamed me - I was not married, so what did I expect?
We did not want children - now, in MLC, he wants "the white picket fence" (thus the OW with kids) and most people think that is awesome for him.
From what I can tell MLCers are nothing BUT confusion. I think of them as Tasmanian Devils whirling around and knocking down anything they come into contact with.
I wondered, do you/ did you ever say ILY first?
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
He will still tell me he loves me, just that he is confused. I was the distancer in our relationship and I have identified that this was one thing about our relationship that bothered him. I am ashamed to say that I didn't take those complaints as seriously as I should have. I am trying to look within myself to find out why.
As a 180, I now always say ILY back (sometimes I would not before) My question is: I have seen so many times not to say ILY - but if it is a 180 - is this a time to bend that rule?
I would love some practical advice on the distancing/pursuing dymanmic in MLC where I was the distancer in the relationship.
Well DR says to DO WHAT WORKS. SO you can always try something and monitor the results.
Pursuit and Distance is very complicated as there are many different traits that one can be a pursurer and a distancer.
Most women are emotional pursurers and sexual distancers. SO here are some other traits in Pursuit and Distance these are predominatly female.
SENSE OF SELF: Strongly non-individualistic. Has difficulty being alone or acting independently for any length of time. Rarely does things on own. Primarily does what others want. Tends to be clinging and overly anxious. A follower. Depends on others for guidance. Sees the world as centered on others "Gives to get" Feels taken for granted. Overly Concerned and protective of others. Always looking out for others never for self. Overly Adaptative. Chooses to be like others or to yield for the sake of unity. Feels empty without interaction with others. Constantly seeking love, approval, and appreciation. Will give up individuality for the sake of relationship.
TRUST: Tends to be naive about relationships. Optomistic about other's motives. Overly trusting; frequently taken advantage of.
EMOTIONS: Primarily people and feeling oriented. Places these above material things. Seeks out emotions and emotionality. Overemotional and effect is heightened. Openly shows feelings to everyone. Expresses a full range of emotions. Frequently intensely expressive, at the expense of thought or reason. Overinvolved with others. A Codependent. Overly sympathetic and empathetic. Heightened response to others. Avoids pain,Tries to protect others from the consequences of their behavior.
EMOTIONAL BOUNDARIES: Ill defined. May be nosy, intrusive. Always has to know whats going on with everyone in the family at all times.
RELATIONSHIP SKILLS: Immaturely applied
SENSE OF RESPOSIBILITY:Overly responsible; Assumes to much resposibility for the relationship. Assumes solution is in their power with sufficient effort. Most comfortable emotionally(although not truly happy) when tending to others. Tends to infantilze others. Is a "rescuer"
CAPACITY TO CHANGE: Insight into others, but little into self. Often held back by looking for explanations. Much talk of change while still passive. Changes made to appease. Avoids significant change because of anticipated pain and lack of approval. Wants prior guarantees. Open to direct change. Overly amenable. Fears taking a stand and dealing with consequences. Believes problems must be dealt with instantly. Seeks advice, counseling. Open to offered solutions via own efforts.
RYTHYM OF INITIATING CHANGE: Overly impatient. Cannot delay dealing with problems. Lacks restraint; impulsive.
PATTERN OF EMOTIONS: High peaks and deep lows. Depends on the distancer for stability.
RELATIONSHIP EXPECTATIONS: High Expectations of others, low for self. Believes they "exprct nothing in return" but hold expectations no one could fulfill. Prone to resentment, bitterness in later years. Very critical of others
PERSONAL PROBLEM-SOLVING STYLE: Emotional engagement. Seeks emotionally charged, reactive situations. Uncomfortable in calm situations. Tends to provoke reactivity and crises. Generates worry about about everyone and everything.
CONTROL AND MANIPULATION: Controls to protect others from themselves. Manipulates controls others through guilt, advice, retaliation, criticism and or/submissiveness. Acts for others "own good." Feels powerless and ultimately incapable. Seeks someone to exert control for and over them.
DECISION MAKING: Difficult, confused, inconsistent. Depends on others to make decisions(parents, partner)
VIEW OF LOVE: Overly romantic. Overlooks practical aspects of relationship.
TYPICAL BELIEF: Love conquers all.
SEXUALTIY: Caring for the partner takes precedence over physical enjoyemnt. sex seen as a sign of caring for and by partner.
SUBSTITUE ACTIVITIES: Overly involved with family, house(for approval), sexual liasons (to feel cared for), medications, particularly tranquilzers
SELF-DECEPTION: Believes living for an extension of partner brings a sense of security, self esteem, contentment. Believes they can catch a distancer.
DEMEANOR: Assumed invulnerability. Self righteous. In later years bitter, cold, emotionally and physically fatigued. Prone to martydom.
GREATEST RELATIONSHIP DIFFICULTY: Inability to remain univolved, particularly with own children.
TYPICAL STATEMENT: "All I ever needed was a home and to be loved. I'll do whatever I have to do to keep everyone happy.If they really cared about me, they would know what I want" ____________________________________________
Cadet should be by soon to give you his welcome, along with all the links.
Try to do the homework he gives, it will help out.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD, Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This is my ultra brand new and improved list of link
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively. It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena). So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process. (Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what she says and 50% of what she does.
I would not ask her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
The truth is that I played a more masculine role in our relationship - independent, overachiever. I think that is why I am still a little shocked that I cannot seem to function at all right now. All my independence has seemed to have left me when I needed it the most.
With regard to Pursuit/Distance, do you have any suggestions as to "what works"? I can say the ILY first and see what happens but anything else? At least for the next month, we'll only have contact by phone. One other thing I am trying is to listen to his life more as I was always the talker. It is sooo hard to not talk about the OW, like the elephant in the room.
Right now, I have decided, for my own sanity, to not initiate any contact for about a week. Quite frankly, I need the time to adjust to this "new reality". I keep thinking this is all a nightmare and of course he has not decided to be with someone else. He has decidedly decided to be with someone else.
I also want to use the "silent week" to come to terms with "just being a friend" for now and how to balance that with self-respect. I want to give him a chance to miss me. When he said that he sees us staying friends and talking on the phone, I just cringed. So, I get the demotion and he gets a new love and his best friend?
The truly ironic thing in all this, is that I thought we were finally getting to a place in our lives where we could discuss moving closer together, family situations willing.
Oh...you are. You just got here right? We are all messes then. But you'll clean up well, I promise...well I promise as long as you put some work into it as well.
"I love you." It is not really recommmended to say.
Why is that you ask?
Michele, the wonderful lady who wrote the books says (paraphrasing here)
Saying, "I love you." Reminds them (the WAS/MLCer) that they don't love you. (At least right now, or they don't think they do...and lets face it. Not thinking they do...is the same thing right now as not.)
So...not a big fan of saying "I love you."
Especially if you are hoping they say it back.
Asking questions and making statements, expecting or wanting them to answer or respond in a certain way? Bad idea right now. VERY bad idea.
Try to avoid question you 'want' answers to. Or rather answers you hope they answer in a way you WANT to hear.
It REALLY hurts when they don't answer that way...and...it's your fault because you set yourself up for it.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
