My Story Part 2: WAW's New Man

[twisted9999]

Ahh...

You worded that earlier, as though you do ask her, but only when you see her...every other week ? I think you said ?

Not sure which witch is which there...

Before i found out about the dude i would ask about cutting the grass or fixing things around house. Thinking back I have not asked if she needed help since i found out.

So how do you change that in yourself ????

I find that once I admitted i had an addiction it all became clear. I began thinking back and reflecting on the past. How i treated people, not just family and friends but coworkers etc. I have made it a point to not treat people like that anymore. Before my addiction i was a fun loving, happy, outgoing person. That is what attracted my wife to me. Although it has been 9 years since i was that person i still was that person at one point. Addictions are terrible, they change who you are and how you act. The hidding and lies consumed me and made me be always on defense. Now that I am in recovery I find its easier to open up. which makes it easier for me to be happy and cheerful.

Personally, I would do the things that I needed to do for myself. Not say a word about them, let my actions speak for me, and let her become curious over time, and have her start wondering about me....

All without looking over my shoulder, wondering if she is watching me or not. Because those are the things that I want for myself in this lifetime. It is the way that I want to present myself to other people.

Funny you say that because in the beginning i would point out what i was doing to change how i acted etc. It kinda annoyed her. I have learned that my actions speak louder than words and she has noticed. She even made the comment in the one and only therapy session she went with me. "I see you are changing and i am so proud of you. You surprised me when you didnt just take the computer and say see ya have a nice life. Then you went to therapy and continued to go...that was a huge surprise. I am so proud of you for stepping up and being a better father. I never respected you before and now i can finally say i respect you and for the first time in a long time i had something good to say about you the other day when someone asked how you were doing."

I will tell you this....

This is the third time today, that you told me to trust you.

In my observations here, over the last 5 years...When somebody told me to trust them, it sends up red flags to me....

It makes me wonder if the other parts are true.

Why would I NOT trust you ?

I can tell you, that I trust what you are saying. I don't know you personally....only from your words here.

If I ask you to trust me, would you do it blindly ?

Or would you read my words, and decide from them if I was trustworthy ???

Little ways that we present ourselves, make a difference...

Honestly i think it is a habbit...i spent most of the last nine years hiding stuff and lying. I would alway say "trust me" when i would start talking....most of the time it was lies. You are the first person to point that out. "Trust me" from now on i will make a point not to say it...lol i could not help myself. But it is a something I need to stop cause it does make me sound like i am trying to convince you to believe me.

I don't quite get the rational behind that one Twisted....

Whose idea was it to....build it up ????

It just sounds weird to me....that you are their Father, and you have to build up spending the night with you...

I'm just trying to understand that one....

Here is the back story. My son is autistic. he has to have a very rigid schedule and if things change up too quickly he does not adjust very well. He is having a very difficult time adjusting to this whole process even 2 1/2 months latter. My oldest is fine. My youngest is somewhat of a mommy clinger so yanking her from her mother two nights in a row may make it difficult on her.

[Mach1]

Honestly

Seriously ????


Now how is that different ??

You weren't honest before ?



: )

[twisted9999]

wow I am speechless.....at least it was a different word....

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Trust me...

Honestly...

In all honesty...

It's a part of your make up that you are going to have to work very hard at 'killing'.

But it is a something I need to stop cause it does make me sound like i am trying to convince you to believe me.

Or convince yourself. : )

Once we can lie to ourselves : ) we can lie convincingly to others.

You and I have very similar backgrounds, BUT, until you stop saying but...or looking for the magical fix I suspect you still think exists?

MY story won't help you much.

[twisted9999]

If I thought there was some magical fix I would be living in a fairytale world or just delusional. Neither of these thing are happening. I have years of hurt and neglect to make up for. I am probably looking at months or even years before she will ever consider us again and she may never.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Didn't mean to offend you.

WTF do I get out of it I do?

You seem to be in good hands with Mach in any case.

Good luck.

[twisted9999]

No I was not offended at all. I was just saying at this point a magic fix would be wishing upon a star and a unrealistic thought. It takes a lot to offend me.

[Mach1]

So what do YOU want ???

What do you think that you should do ???

How would you like to be different in your next relationship ? (which can be with your current spouse)

Twisted, you come across as very defensive...something that you said was a problem for you in your marriage...

Then you said that you were different now...

How so ???

Is your argument better ?

Are you defending with a different strategy ?

How important is it for you, to be right ?



From what I have read from you ?

I see you as a guy, who is on the cusp of losing everything that he didn't value, until he was faced with losing it. I see a guy who is beyond remorseful, and who will do anything to achieve that.

I see a guy who is carrying around a huge bucket of guilt for the things that he could have done better, and is willing to defend the person that he is NOW, against who he was then.

I see a guy that extremely guilt driven. Whose actions are all coming from guilt. And his guilt is driving him to become something that he is not prepared to follow through with in the long run.

I see a guy who is willing to scream from the mountaintops that he is different, without providing any depth to back that up.....yet.

I see a guy who uses words to his advantage, to talk his way out of any situation. A guy who says...."well, you just don't understand" , instead of letting his actions speak for him.

I see a guy who wants to be different, yet applies just enough to get the desired results..

I see a guy, who can do anything that he chooses to do....

If any of this is untrue, please correct me....

Read back through your threads...and you tell me what advice you deflected, and what advice you ignored, defended yourself, and created a diversion, instead of reflecting it internally, and seeing how it could have helped you.

One of my favorite quotes ....

I remind myself of this daily...

"Seek to understand, and then you will be understood"

What does that mean to you ???








BTW...

Thank you for explaining the situation with your Son...

Makes way more sense now

[ericmsant2]

Twisted

You’re an accountant I think…with a Masters degree so you must be a really bright guy.

Consistency…what does that mean to you?

9 years (the duration that you were married) is 3,285 days give or take a few days for leap year.

On 9/5 or 43 days ago.. you said…

At the beginning she was somewhat open to R if I were to show true change but I have kind of pushed her away and now she does not know if it is too late for R but she is still somewhat open to it.

Moved out 5 weeks ago and she filed for a Petition for Divorce

5 weeks ago is about 76 days ago.

Will not go to marriage counseling till I fix myself and she also will not consider dating during the separation.

And do you think in 76 days you have FIXED yourself? Hmmm…I am three years post bomb and guess what..honestly, I still have not fixed EVERYTHING.

so my early life was faced with a lot of loneliness. I also had a rather large settlement from my biological dads death that allowed me to go through college/high school without having to work AKA never got a chance to grow up.

Never had a chance to “grow up”. Do you think you can grow up in 76 days?

Before I get into the rest of my post….

3,285 days (the number of days you were married) – 76 days = 3,209 days. The 3,209 days represent the number of days that you were married minus 76 days of "good behavior". …..3,209 days is 97.68% of the total number of days. 76 days is 2.32% of the number of days. So which odds would you play...the 97.68% or the 2.32%? Which is determine consistency?

So if I understand some of the issues were…..

I was not ready to grow up and be married

would spend most of my time playing online video games

She on the other hand was supporting us with her job

I was so preoccupied with gaming that I would neglect both her and my daughter.

The first year of life I had never fed her, rarely changed a diaper, would not stay up with her, and was sleeping in another room so that I would not “roll on top of her” but really I was in the computer room playing games. This went on for the next 3 years

Hmmm….3 years vs. 43 days.

when I was not being emotionally there for her

I became jealous of her relationship with my wife and would lash out at her

Hmmm…maybe some of the defense issues that Mach mentioned….

So I did not fully participate in the counseling and we only went to 1 session

“you make decisions in life and you will have to live with the consequence”. I ignored this and did it anyway only playing 2 nights a week.

she just did it so I would not argue with her. When she didn’t want to have sex I would guilt her into it or get pissed and she would sometimes give in.

would lash out at people, and was an all-around miserable person to be around

we were constantly fighting and she would feel like she was walking on eggshells around me until she just gave up

I was selfish and put my own needs before everyone else.

I would hide the fact I spent money on games and lie to her about monthly subscriptions or the fact I was even playing them

She kicked me out and said if I don’t find a job she would not let me back

Wife got sick of this and threatened to kick me out. But let me back in that same day

Looks like early on she was unhappy and the only way to get a response from you was to…

She kicked me out and said if I don’t find a job she would not let me back. I got off my butt and found a job and she let me back in after a few days

Kick you out, which appears to have worked.

When she finally was tired and realized that YOU were not changing ….

My wife stopped nagging me

She gave UP.

I have done a complete 180 when it comes to being a father.

Yes over 76 days….

I am not trying to cause you undo pain man…I just hope you see what I see (I have been where you are – I know the pain very well)…

I love you and I care a great deal about you, I don’t regret marrying you, I am no longer angry with you, you were not a horrible husband and we did have good times, I just said those things because I was angry, I am not doing this to hurt you and I don’t like to see you in pain. But she also said she does not love me romantically and does not think she ever could and that was not normal.

Ouch I know that hurt. The feeling of knowing you f’d up. It [censored]. The guilt you probably feel, wanting to go back in time and redo it.

Wanting the world to know that YOU changed….

But why did you change? Did you really not like you? If you didn’t, then to my earlier point…do you really think you could change in almost 80 days?

As I was reading your thread I realized just how much sound advice you were being given….

You have to prove yourself to her. Just because you suddenly changed your wasys? Doesn't mean she should or has to believe you. I wouldn't. You like I did have years of damage to undo.

this is an ideal time for you to redefine your previous concept of "patience" and "time".

Hmmmm…70 something days…ya think that time is something that needs to be redefined.

Stop pressuring her. Let it be HER choice.

if you continue to push, it's the fastest way for her to say no.

These changes as long as they aren't to 'trick' her into coming back, but that you made them for yourself and yourself alone? Then they have the best chance of sticking, and if they do, she has the best reason to believe in them...even though that belief will only come in time.

I think having your W there is a terrible idea. She's going to go there to show others (not you) that she tried. She's going to feel ganged up by you and the C, then get defensive and come up with a HUGE list of faults of yours. And maybe throw in a line like "I see he's changing, but I don't trust them, etc."

And just some of your defenses….

I am not trying to pressure her to go. I told her it is up to her when I talked to her yesterday but I also need to know by the end of the day before it is too late.

I have been backing off from her trust me

When I proposed the idea to her I said yes the main goal is to heal a marriage but more importantly it is about learning to communicate and that my therapist, who agrees that counselling is not really a good idea right now, said we would both benefit from it.

Probably viewed as manipulative. And FTR, it is WHAT YOU WANTED.

I will let her know it is too late for next week and if she still wants to go there is one available in Mar. if she is willing to go or if she is willing to drive to Texas there is one in October.

Still did not get YOUR way so you are gonna “let her know” ….or in my words…”talk to her about it”. Hmmm…maybe there is some truth to you trying to talk your way out of this.

"My therapist called and let me know she had talked to you and what you said. I am sorry I offered it I honestly did not know it would upset you".

Another defense of your postion…and another example of…Oh….you talking again.

I told her that if someone truly loved someone they would let them go and that I was ready to move on without her and I didn't need her in my life that I just want her to be happy.

Really…let her go. That was not sincere IMO and she probably knew it.

In terms of the changes that you are making for YOU….
On 9/24 you said…

I truly am in a happier place and I am doing the changes for me.

The very next day you said….

So what should I do? Should I continue my 180 because she is seeing the changes and says she finally respects me that she never respected me.

Twisted…reading your thread is like going back in time for me. It is quite painful but I have much much better picture/sense of where you are.

Twisted, I would suggest that you go back over your posts and read them again…draw out a timeline…

I want you to really think about this…(in addition to all of the chit that Mach put out there for you)..

Whose actions are all coming from guilt. And his guilt is driving him to become something that he is not prepared to follow through with in the long run.

IMO, guilt may start the process of change. It is the true internal desire to want more…to become the best…REGARDLESS of the OUTCOME that will make these changes last.

Twisted…you really can do “this”. As long as you know what ‘this” is, who this is for you and WHY you are doing it.

Do you want more in your life (and I am not talking about your W)?

Do you want to really…finally…once and for all….”grow up”?

Do you want to be the best MAN that side of the miss?

What do YOU really want Twisted and what are you will to pay to get it?

Do you think you are strong enough to give up everything you have known….

Something is out there for you Twisted…those demons…the one you have been running from….they can be addressed once and for all…

It takes more than 76 days OR .0232%

God Bless,
Eric

[twisted9999]

So what do YOU want ???

I want to be happy. I want my wife to be happy. I want to be a better father, person, someone that can be loved for who i am. Someone who does not let games control my life. I dont want to be misserable anymore. I want to move on but at the same time I dont because i really do love my wife and it really is so hard because i see her at least 2-3 times a week and when i call she usually answers the phone its a constant reminder of all the pain i am hold inside me. I am trying so hard to detach from her. Just when I think i am OK something comes up that rocks my world. Like last night when I called to tell my kids good night my daughter told me she had friends over and told me their names....they are the other guys kids. I thought she was keeping it a secret from her family but her mother was at the house too. I just feel betrayed and lied too.

What do you think that you should do ???

I am not sure. That is why i see 2 therapist and post on this forum. I know that I have to detach and i know that i can not control her and she will do whatever she thinks she needs to do. Having kids makes this difficult because we are in constant contact. I try and not contact her unless need be. I just feels like the more I dont contact her the more she pulls away.

How would you like to be different in your next relationship ? (which can be with your current spouse)

The first thing that needed to change and that I have changed is that getting my addiction in control. I know that no matter what I want to be or how I want to act if i can not get this addiction in control then everything is for naught. I see myself in my next relationship being a better husband by being supportive of her and taking on some of the task that i just let others do. I would compliment her and tell her how much she means to me. Not hold back my feelings or thoughts like i did before. I am not talking being all mushy but sit down and have a adult conversation with her. I would be a better father, more family time, play with the kids more, help with the raising of them.

Twisted, you come across as very defensive...something that you said was a problem for you in your marriage.../quote] I am not trying to be defense. I am stress to the max right now. I work 2 jobs to make ends meet. I wake up at 5 am and get home at 11pm Mon, Wed, Thur. Sat and sunday I work 8 hours shifts. I am pulling in 70+ hours a week. I get very little time with my children. My wife activily pursuing some other guy. its just really overwhelming and my defensivness is probably a direct result of this. I am trying my hardest to not revert back to my old habbits and I admit sometimes they rear their ugly heads and this is something i am try to work on.

[quote] Then you said that you were different now...

How so ???

I see a difference in me. My friends see difference in my and so does my wife and family. I have become an 100% better father. Spending as much time as i can with them going out instead of staying home with them. I am cheerful and try and look at the bright side of things. I am doing things to better myself, like running and working out. I try to do things with friends but with my schedule there is little time for me. I am more open about my feeling with my family and friends and I try not to hold back like i did in the past.

Is your argument better ?

I have not gotten into an argument with my wife since the split. Not because i am activily trying not to. I do it because i hate argments. They are stressful and alot of times dont lead to anything positive. We would fight on a almost daily basis not huge fights but snarky comments and passive aggressiveness. I was misserable in my marriage and it had nothing to do with my wife or kids but I did take it out on them. I was in a very dark and lonely place. My every waking moment was consumed about thoughts of what boss we will kill this week or what strat will we use on the next boss fight. I would stay up in bed for hours thinking about this stuff. It made me a horrible person to be around.

Are you defending with a different strategy ?

Not sure what you mean her please elaborate.

How important is it for you, to be right ?

In the past it was my number one goal. Right now I admit when I am wrong and have not problems with that. I know that I am not perfect, no one is. I could care less if i am right or wrong because when I am wrong i look at it as a learning experience.

I see you as a guy, who is on the cusp of losing everything that he didn't value, until he was faced with losing it. I see a guy who is beyond remorseful, and who will do anything to achieve that.

True, they say addicts dont get better till they hit rock bottom. My guilt over my marriage sometimes consumes me. I am getting better at letting go of the past. It just the thought that my wife would rush into the arms of the first person that gave her any attention so soon after the separation hurts so bad. I am here waiting, willing to do my all to make her happy and she knows it. And yet she chooses to get into a relationship with a person she barely knows over the person that spent the last 11 years together with, the person that fathered her children.

I see a guy who is carrying around a huge bucket of guilt for the things that he could have done better, and is willing to defend the person that he is NOW, against who he was then.

True. The guilt like i said before is overwhelming because i know i had a addiction and sometimes i use that as a excuse for my action. Deep down I know that I could have been better i could have decided not to let my addiction control me. Instead i choose not too. I choose to be the person that i was all those years and destroy everything that I loved in the process. I defend myself for the person i am now because i so want to believe that I am changing and that these changes are real and long lasting. I am so afraid to go back to that horrible person. I look back and see what i did, said, and i find myself hating myself. Hate is a strong word...i hate that person and i hate myself for letting it get so bad.

I see a guy that extremely guilt driven. Whose actions are all coming from guilt. And his guilt is driving him to become something that he is not prepared to follow through with in the long run.

Is this true? Only time will tell. I know one thing though....no matter what happens I will never pick up another game again. Not because of guilt because I hate games. I hate everything about them because i know see how it ruined everything I loved. Like i said before I would like to believe that these changes are real and long lasting. I hope that guilt is not the main driver now. I know in the beggining it was. As time went on I became happier, not at my situation but happier at the person I had become. The thing is I like this new me. I have made friends with people I never would have talked to in the past. Done things that i never thought i would do. So I hope they are for real. Hope is all i have right now.

I see a guy who is willing to scream from the mountaintops that he is different, without providing any depth to back that up.....yet.

Probably true. I guess i am not sure how else to go about having depth. Making lasting changes is difficult. Do i think i can do it? yes. Do i think i am making progress in this department? Yes. Do i think i am their yet? Not by a long shot.

I see a guy who uses words to his advantage, to talk his way out of any situation. A guy who says...."well, you just don't understand" , instead of letting his actions speak for him.

True. I was/am a master of using words to get out of things...how do you think i lasted so long in the relationship with my wife. I used alot of talking to convince her that I would stop playing games, be nicer, be a better father, etc. My actions though said otherwise. I would stop for a while but really i never stopped. I would just hid it from her. The difference between now and then is I am on my own. I could easily stop going to therapy, start playing games, pick the kids up and just sit there and let them play by themselve. I choose not to. I choose to be a better person not because I feel it will win my wife back because honestly at this point I think i have a better chance at winning the lottery. Instead i do it because i enjoy not being consumed by games, enjoy letting it all my emotions out without being judged by my therapist, enjoy playing with my kids.

I see a guy who wants to be different, yet applies just enough to get the desired results..

Maybe this is true. I try and think it is not. I hope that this is not true. I do want to be different and do see changes. Drastic changes at that. People that i am friends with make comments like who are you? you are not the person I once knew". I also may be fooling myself.

I see a guy, who can do anything that he chooses to do....

This is true. I have no doubt in my mind that this is true. I am a very persistant person and when i want something or want to do something I very rarely fail because i work hard at accomplising my goals.

Read back through your threads...and you tell me what advice you deflected, and what advice you ignored, defended yourself, and created a diversion, instead of reflecting it internally, and seeing how it could have helped you.

The first thing is detaching. I have got to do a better job at it. I was doing so good then the other guy came into the picture and put me back at square one. Not being there to help out. I admit I did way too much of this. I have scaled back drastically. Snooping is another thing i have been told to stop and I did. once i found out about this other dude i once again when back to square one. I did it at first because I didnt want to believe she would move on so fast so it was to try and find a sign it was not happening....i know that was not the case now. I was doing so good at all these things and once i had a feeling she was talking to someone else i went into crisis mode. Asking if she needed any help. Paying for stuff i didnt have to, etc. After it was confirmed I scaled back drastically.

I remind myself of this daily...

"Seek to understand, and then you will be understood"

What does that mean to you ???

I think it means that until you seek to understand the situation you are in, how your people feel, what i are doing wrong, etc you will never be understood and will give off mixed signals. Not sure if that makes any sense.