Was this them the whole time ??? My 2nd thread

[SunnyBurst]

Here is my 1st thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2282250&page=12

I know we have all heard this from people -- " you had to know this was the way they were for so long you just didn't want to see it "

I am having a hard time believing that love can be that blind for 15 years in my case.

[TSquared2]

I know we have all heard this from people -- " you had to know this was the way they were for so long you just didn't want to see it "

I am having a hard time believing that love can be that blind for 15 years in my case.

Well, maybe not quite that much...my experience has been:

-Yes, some of this was there the whole time, just not as pronounced, or in very minute quantities so it flew under the radar or was tolerable (or maybe even "cute" or "interesting")...but in mlc it gets turned up to "11" (Spinal Tap movie reference). In my case, I know now, looking back, that W had histrionic/borderline personality disorder traits and other "stuff"...but they were low key...but in mlc they emerged 150% as they need to come to terms with their "stuff".

-Other things are unresolved, repressed stuff from childhood, adolescence, that we never saw, until now, when they are insisting on being processed and resolved.



I'd like to share something from my sitch that may be useful to you (or not...)

My W blamed me for everything, projected all her anger, fear, etc onto me when she took the big dive done the tunnel...and the OM's were probably helping her accomplish this and re-inforcing...as they do....

So I had months of angry venomous alien spew from W. I made it a point to ask (non-judgmentally and VERY even keel, neutral) "I'm sorry your are angry, did I do or say something that made you angry?", each "spew session". At first, I got what I did (whether I really did it or not varied). If it was something I did, I apologize and say that I wish I had done it differently, etc (I learned that here in the forums). Then it started being "No" more often than not, after enough of MY changes were consistent and enough TIME had passed to show that they were real, not a tactic.

Then one day, after pausing the spew to read an IM from an OM, I asked that, and she spat "No! I haven't been angry with you in a while!" Then she looked at me, looked back to the IM, then back at me with a "look" on her face that showed "something" was realized...maybe I wasn't the sole reason for her unhappiness...that maybe, just maybe, it was elsewhere....

Thus started the SLOW turning within her to look within.

I have pretty much removed myself from being the root of all evil...I'm just a wee bit of the evil now...

That was my intermediate goal, to not be the "cause" 100% anymore in her mind, allowing her to look within. And yes, I still make mistakes, still slip and slide sometimes, I am not perfect by any stretch, but hey, it's my journey too! And I can sleep well knowing I gave it everything, should things not turn out...

Hope that helps some, and that I was sort of clear...

T^2

[ForeverYoung]

Wow, thanks T2. I haven't heard my wife say that I was the problem for quite a while now. This gives me some hope. It sounds like our wive's have similar issues.

She's not in love with me of course, and doesn't see us staying married, but that's another story.

Sorry this post wasn't about you sunny, but T's post spoke to me.

[ericmsant2]

Sunny

I guess I am expecting her to be nasty as she has been till I cave and let her go out on Sat and watch my son

DB101 – change how you look at things. If you are expecting her to be “nasty” then anything she says or does will be viewed through that lens. It’s not easy buddy..especially when you feel like this…

till I cave and let her go out on Sat and watch my son

One thing I noticed in your response, that maybe I am mis-interpreting (and I may) is your comment…. ”let her”

Think about that for a second….how does that sounds…YOU LET HER.

I think I should go home and make dinner the reason I don't want to is 1) I am trying to detach 2) I don't like going into a non talking situation either - very uncomfortable right now as I have been an ass kissing doormat for so long now.

The biggest thing I learned about DBing were healthy boundaries and learning to trust, love and forgive myself. I say this because if you really want to go home and make dinner, then you should. I get how hard it is to detach when your MLCer batchit crazy partner is around, but dude if she is not saying a thing and leaving you alone – try not to let it get to you and go about doing what YOU want to do.

This is the confusing part for me -- since until I started posting here I would always greet her when I saw her I am trying to stop that and NOT speak to her her UNLESS she speaks to me.

I know, I know, if you are anything like me…it was like a knife in the heart. It was like WTF, don’t I deserve at least a hello. Right now, she probably can’t be nice and civil – so instead she chooses silence. I am not excusing her bad behavior per se – just providing another perspective. Right now she can’t so try not to EXPECT her to. That said, HER ACTIONS should not DRIVE YOURS. SO if you want to say hello, say it. Don’t allow her craziness to turn you into a bitter and mean…not to mention NOT speaking person. Don’t give her a “reason” to be pissed off at you at the same token, do not do something you do not want to do.

In terms of her being in the house and not speaking……Here is where the DB approach of “act as if” I think will help….

Act as if you are okay with her being in the house, act as if you are going about your life.

Oh…and DB101 again on the “ass kissing doormat”….change how you look at it. Are you a doormat or are you giving her the loving space she needs to fix her chit? I personally, think the later.

So if I walk in and I see she has already fed my son should I say thinks for taking care of it if she still does not address me

A lot of times we hold back saying what we feel because we are concerned about what some else is gonna say and feel. Although there is a place for that (i.e. not being a cruel and mean prick, which I do not think you are) I do think that if you want to say THANK YOU to her – you should. The bigger thing to look at is….why would you change your kind and nice demeanor for her? Doesn’t that give her the power to control how YOU feel?

I am having a hard time believing that love can be that blind for 15 years in my case.

IF this is a “crisis”…then believe it or not…YOU nor SHE asked for this. Ya know I struggled with this for a long time…I came to realize that MY upbringing and my XW were the perfect ingredients for a crisis. At the end of the day, both of us did the best we could with the TOOLS we had. I am not saying this to justify her actions, I am only saying that her CRISIS is NOT YOUR FAULT and to some extent it is NOT hers either.

Sunny – this crap aint easy man and FTR, I think you are doing a hell of job. My only suggestion would be to spend less time thinking about what she is doing/saying and more time thinking about what you want in your life that really does not involve her.

Chin up dude!

God Bless,
Eric

[SunnyBurst]

Sunny

I guess I am expecting her to be nasty as she has been till I cave and let her go out on Sat and watch my son

DB101 – change how you look at things. If you are expecting her to be “nasty” then anything she says or does will be viewed through that lens. It’s not easy buddy..especially when you feel like this…

till I cave and let her go out on Sat and watch my son

One thing I noticed in your response, that maybe I am mis-interpreting (and I may) is your comment…. ”let her”

Think about that for a second….how does that sounds…YOU LET HER.

I think I should go home and make dinner the reason I don't want to is 1) I am trying to detach 2) I don't like going into a non talking situation either - very uncomfortable right now as I have been an ass kissing doormat for so long now.

The biggest thing I learned about DBing were healthy boundaries and learning to trust, love and forgive myself. I say this because if you really want to go home and make dinner, then you should. I get how hard it is to detach when your MLCer batchit crazy partner is around, but dude if she is not saying a thing and leaving you alone – try not to let it get to you and go about doing what YOU want to do.

This is the confusing part for me -- since until I started posting here I would always greet her when I saw her I am trying to stop that and NOT speak to her her UNLESS she speaks to me.

I know, I know, if you are anything like me…it was like a knife in the heart. It was like WTF, don’t I deserve at least a hello. Right now, she probably can’t be nice and civil – so instead she chooses silence. I am not excusing her bad behavior per se – just providing another perspective. Right now she can’t so try not to EXPECT her to. That said, HER ACTIONS should not DRIVE YOURS. SO if you want to say hello, say it. Don’t allow her craziness to turn you into a bitter and mean…not to mention NOT speaking person. Don’t give her a “reason” to be pissed off at you at the same token, do not do something you do not want to do.

In terms of her being in the house and not speaking……Here is where the DB approach of “act as if” I think will help….

Act as if you are okay with her being in the house, act as if you are going about your life.

Oh…and DB101 again on the “ass kissing doormat”….change how you look at it. Are you a doormat or are you giving her the loving space she needs to fix her chit? I personally, think the later.

So if I walk in and I see she has already fed my son should I say thinks for taking care of it if she still does not address me

A lot of times we hold back saying what we feel because we are concerned about what some else is gonna say and feel. Although there is a place for that (i.e. not being a cruel and mean prick, which I do not think you are) I do think that if you want to say THANK YOU to her – you should. The bigger thing to look at is….why would you change your kind and nice demeanor for her? Doesn’t that give her the power to control how YOU feel?

I am having a hard time believing that love can be that blind for 15 years in my case.

IF this is a “crisis”…then believe it or not…YOU nor SHE asked for this. Ya know I struggled with this for a long time…I came to realize that MY upbringing and my XW were the perfect ingredients for a crisis. At the end of the day, both of us did the best we could with the TOOLS we had. I am not saying this to justify her actions, I am only saying that her CRISIS is NOT YOUR FAULT and to some extent it is NOT hers either.

Sunny – this crap aint easy man and FTR, I think you are doing a hell of job. My only suggestion would be to spend less time thinking about what she is doing/saying and more time thinking about what you want in your life that really does not involve her.

Chin up dude!

God Bless,
Eric

Eric you have so much wisdom !! I was actually trying to follow this list of recomendation posted in the resource area:
Here are a few things I did to DB my H while all the craziness was going on:

·I found more ways to focus on my children and myself.

·I forced myself to stop thinking about what my H was doing and how unfair it was.
·I realized there is really nothing I could do about my H’s behavior anyway.

·I learned to state boundaries in a friendly none threatening tone. And I stated those boundaries quickly and succinctly.

·I tried to process all my emotions in a healthy way that allowed me to stay calm just about 24/7. (If I became angry I broke plates against a wall to get out the anger.)

·I worked on my self-esteem.

·I started going out once a week and having H watch the kids.

·I tried to stay in touch with my emotions as best as I could and release them as close to the incident as possible even if I thought I felt fine.

·I "acted as if", I was going on with my life, I gave my H some breathing room.

·I tried different 180’s.

· I became more unpredictable. One fourth of July H said he was going out. (Not spending it as a family) So I had a barbeque and invited lots of people over and celebrated without him.

·I became mysterious.

· I stopped initiating any conversation.

· I went to my room as soon as he came home.

· I laughed a lot and enjoyed my kids in my room with the door shut.

· I never made plans that included him.

· I stopped interfering and/or helping along his relationships with the kids.

· I stopped keeping him informed on the kids.

·I avoided OR talks.

· I stopped confronting him.

· I left the room first and ended conversations first.

·I was always friendly but distracted.

·I stopped defending myself.

·I listened to him ad- nauseum.

· I sat in therapy sessions and let him express his anger at me until I couldn’t do it anymore.

·Went to counseling by myself.

·Made a list of all of my good points and talents(To remind myself of my worth)

·I took stock of what about myself could be improved and did so.

·I prayed

·I became more focused on what I had to be grateful for.

·I gave the whole situation over to God.

[SunnyBurst]

Since I was basically always being kind and nice -- she wasn't responding to it - so you say if you DBing and it is not working --- try something completely different.

Do you have children ??? This is becoming a concern for me, my son is autistic and needs a lot of attention - before my wife got canned from work I was home with him every afternoon when he got off the bus - now since I am working 2 jobs my wife is taking care of him -- he needs to be read to and stimulated - my wife lets him watch TV and play video games ad nauseum. My bigger concern is how impatient she is and how much she yells at him when he doesn't do everything exactly as she wishes which is impossible as he has focusing issues - any advice ???

Also how do you handle financial issues when she is out of work and spending money we don't even have -- I find these 2 situations daunting -- my wife would never spend dollar unless we had 5 !! She has spent over $12,000 on credit cards since April -- She took $10,000 out of her 401K (which is 1/2 mine) and gave it to her parents to pay for her sisters wedding. She also took $1000 out of the saving account yesterday without asking me which is our rule for the saving account - Should I address this issue or ride the storm with her ??

[ericmsant2]

Sunny

Do you have children ???

Yes I do. Three…S18, S17 and D11.

Before I respond to your other questions…EVERY sitch is different…every one. You will need to find what works and does not work for you. The key to everything, at least IMO, is to really DETACH and begin to ask yourself some really hard questions. Add to that…FACING YOUR OWN FEAR and having to learn that YOU and YOU alone are responsible for YOU life. So, if you wanted to see what I did..and lord knows I made mistake after mistake after mistake….you can read my history (warning – it ain’t pretty).

As for your son what other options are available to you? Can you put him in a program during the day so that he gets the stimulation that he needs?

My bigger concern is how impatient she is and how much she yells at him when he doesn't do everything exactly as she wishes which is impossible as he has focusing issues - any advice ???

First this may sound bad dude…but imo, it is the truth. You cannot make YOUR W be someone, right now she is not. Sounds bad I know. But really it is impossible for you to be there every second of the day. That said, maybe you can write up a daily schedule for him. Like 10 am – Breakfast, 11 – 11:30 – Reading time, 11:30 – 12:30 – Lunch and play time 12:30 – 1:30 – TV time (this way at least she feels what she thinks is best for him you are agreeing too).

she is out of work and spending money we don't even have

Be careful here buddy. MLCers will spend, spend, spend. They feel entitled to it. While you are still legally married, you are responsible for the joint debt. Personally, I would sit down a put together a budget. If she cannot abide by it, then I would call the credit card company and have them freeze the cards so that you can stop the excess spending.

She has spent over $12,000 on credit cards since April

Not good. I would send her an email or at a min. document a conversation you have with her that says that you will not be responsible for these debts. Also, do NOT use the credit cards yourself.

She also took $1000 out of the saving account yesterday without asking me which is our rule for the saving account

This is a tough one dude, you are still legally married and depending on the state you live in, you may not be able to do much. You may want to find out a little bit about the divorce laws in your state. If need be, take the rest of the savings account money and pay off the credit cards and then close them.

You need to protect yourself. I am not saying file…I am saying protect you and YOUR son.

[TSquared2]

Hi Sunny,

W and I have 3 children, and it was/is rough on them...I can't imagine the worry you feel, being gone from the house with 2 jobs and all. There were times I would have to take the younger ones away from the house to get them away from the craziness...

I had to start, without telling W, a separate account in my name only (and it still is until this gets resolved somehow) and split my direct deposit 70% mine - 30% joint...and I removed her from other some other joint accounts.

T^2

[TSquared2]

and what Eric said ^^^^ ... I did see a L as well.

[SunnyBurst]

[/quote]
This is the confusing part for me -- since until I started posting here I would always greet her when I saw her I am trying to stop that and NOT speak to her her UNLESS she speaks to me.[/quote]

I know, I know, if you are anything like me…it was like a knife in the heart. It was like WTF, don’t I deserve at least a hello. Right now, she probably can’t be nice and civil – so instead she chooses silence. I am not excusing her bad behavior per se – just providing another perspective. Right now she can’t so try not to EXPECT her to. That said, HER ACTIONS should not DRIVE YOURS. SO if you want to say hello, say it. Don’t allow her craziness to turn you into a bitter and mean…not to mention NOT speaking person. Don’t give her a “reason” to be pissed off at you at the same token, do not do something you do not want to do.

In terms of her being in the house and not speaking……Here is where the DB approach of “act as if” I think will help….

Act as if you are okay with her being in the house, act as if you are going about your life.

Oh…and DB101 again on the “ass kissing doormat”….change how you look at it. Are you a doormat or are you giving her the loving space she needs to fix her chit? I personally, think the later. [quote]

So you think I should greet her when I come home or when she comes home ???