I have started another thread as I am not sure how to get help with my current sitch. My previous thread was v emotional so I want to start this with a bit clearer head.
Short summary is wife loves but not in love withme in August. This after confused feelings since December, a really good spell in February where we both wanted to make things work and then now.
Wife at home but wants to move out with S12. Eldest S19 starts University on Thursday and will be leaving home.
Wife stated she can't stand me touching her, re-written our marriage history to say everything was wrong - even the sex which she used to be so into but now is saying that it was sex and not love making. Other things include lack of emotional support, neglect and not helping around the house. Plus a spell about 6 years ago when I was stressed at work and for about 2 weeks was bad temperered (but not abusive).
She has been a stay at home mum for 13 years. Gave up a decent career to be at home.
She has put a wall up saying she won't give in to changing her mind, that she wants more passion in her life, that she needs to find herself. She has been depressed in the past but never got help. She has also spent the last 12 months cutting off her family (says she does not love her mum), always accusing her sister of being a bad parent, obsessing looking at other peoples business on facebook and making negative comments. We also moved our son out of his school last summer (he has special needs) over allegations of abuse. She has since been obsessed with getting the headteacher sacked for not acting properly. I agree with her feelings and support this but she has even set up a new facebook account to befriend the teachers at the school under a different name to try and spy on their actions/conversations!
She is being very private with e-mail and mobile but no other man - mutual friend and my own detective work has confirmed this although can never be 100% certain.
She gets very down on herself saying people have worked over her all her life and that the new her won't allow this to happen. Has even accused me of walking all over her. When I ask about her being single parent with our sons she says it won't be any different than it is now. Something I find extremely hurtful.
She then says she could live me forever re day to day but when she thinks about me and her it is not right (although will not elaborate on what not right is). She also says she wants to be good friends and that I can see S whenever I like and that she sees us all spending time together in the future.
She has told our mutual friends that it is all my fault, that she wants a strong man, that the last 13 years have been a mistaken and she has had enough.
I have done my own soul searching. Some of what she says is true in that I could have been more emotional supportive with regard to certain events. However, I don't believe this has been the case over our entire marriage but there are changes I could make that I am making. She is getting angrier by the changes in that why could I not have done them sooner, it makes no difference no and there is no way she sees a future in our marriage. She keeps referring back to needing to find herself, that she has changed in what she wants, she then says it is not me it is her, but contradicts herself by saying it is all my fault.
She is trying to find a new place but finding it difficult as she would have to rely on benefits, plus support from me. She does not like the houses available on benefits, not sure of she can get housing benefits whilst she is joint named on the mortgage and resorts to telling herself she feels worthless and feels trapped.
So how do I deal with this. After the initial shock and begging I am trying to disrtance myself and focus on my sons, myself by getting to the gym but it is all starting to tear me up. I have read about detachment and everytime I start to feel progress my Wife starts being nice and I am back to square 1. Like yesterday morning I let her lie in bed, took youngest out and when I arrived home she was really grateful for the lie in, cooked some lunch for us all, was talkative. Then she says she is going looking at a house which set me right back again.
I feel like i am on an emotional rollercoaster. I have told her I accept her decision etc and will support her. That has difused everything and the tension is a lot less. I have stopped snooping as there is still a nagging doubt re OM in my search for answers to all this.
We don't argue and she seems to be carrying on like there is nothing wrong. My mum called round the other day and was shocked that W seemed to be carrying on like nothing was wrong etc.
Can someone please advise how i handle this. We are still sleeping in the same bed (no touching/intimacy) but it is like a ticking time bomb until she sorts out a place of her own. I 100% want this to work but don't want to carry on in what feels like limbo at the moment. I have ordered DR but has not arrived yet but did read the chapter on this site.
On my last thread a poster confirmed it sounds like MLC. That was my assumption but a mutual friend commented that W did not look herself, looked depressed and was shaking when talking to her.
I want to help W through anything whether it saves the marriage or not. She is not herself but I am worried that when she moves out the greener grass will not be greener. That she is looking for happiness elsewhere but is not happy with herself and has decided the only thing she can change is the marriage which will help her feel better.
I know lots are going through similar on this site, but any tips on how to be around my wife, how to handle this myself would be greatly appreciated.
This is a quote from wife on your other thread: "I want a strong man not a boy." She is saying volumes in that one statement.
In what ways have you left day-to-day decision making up to her? How much are you involved with the children? Does your special needs child have a physical handicap? How much do you help her with him? How much free time does she have? How much do you take her out...without the kids?
She's drowning in this life she has and she's extremely unhappy. Her will to find a chance at happiness is trying to take over....but without wise counsel. All she knows to do to change her life is to eliminate what she sees as her biggest block to happiness. Without eliminating her children (which is a good thing b/c some women do) that just leaves ....you.
She is physically exhausted and emotionally empty. That is a very scary feeling for a woman b/c we are all about emotions. That’s why we tend to base everything on how we feel. If she doesn’t have some other person who makes her feel special, she will find him. She’s already listing the requirements she wants in the next man.
In the beginning, she was probably happy to give up a career to make a home for you and the kids. Now, she feels she gave up a lot in order to be a SAHM. Life can be cruel and the rewards can be less than what we thought they would be whenever we go into making lifetime decisions. I read stories that sound a lot like yours……some have it better financially than others, but regardless of that, the W is desperately unhappy and at some point she starts fighting for her own emotional survival. At least, that is how she feels.
Your W has changed. She may point her finger at you, but life just has a way of taking its toll on us. She’s still young enough that she thinks she may have one last chance at true happiness and she’s going to be looking for it. That is a very dangerous state to be in. She is vulnerable to anything out there.
While you are waiting on your books, do some research on line for mid-life crises. Also, MWD has articles and chapters from her books here on the board.
This is going to be a terribly long road. She will not "snap" out of this. Hopefully, your M will survive, but it means that you will have to buckle down for a bumping ride. Her emotions will be all over the place, and you cannot allow yourself to think she’s coming around just because she’s more talkative or seems to be in a better mood that day. You will crash and burn if you do that. You have to stay focused on the goal and not her behavior. Do you know what that goal is?
Do not start sleeping anywhere other than your bed.
Do not ask for a separation at this time.
Do not offer to leave your home.
Don’t make threats of getting a D or anything like that, b/c she will take you up on it and that’s not what you really want.
Do not tell her you'll support her decisions or help her financially if she moves out.
Figure out why she sees you as a boy instead of a strong man…… but don’t ask her about it. How can you show more maturity?
Post every day you can, in order to keep your thread active with responses.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This is a quote from wife on your other thread: "I want a strong man not a boy." She is saying volumes in that one statement.
In what ways have you left day-to-day decision making up to her? How much are you involved with the children? Does your special needs child have a physical handicap? How much do you help her with him? How much free time does she have? How much do you take her out...without the kids?
She's drowning in this life she has and she's extremely unhappy. Her will to find a chance at happiness is trying to take over....but without wise counsel. All she knows to do to change her life is to eliminate what she sees as her biggest block to happiness. Without eliminating her children (which is a good thing b/c some women do) that just leaves ....you.
She is physically exhausted and emotionally empty. That is a very scary feeling for a woman b/c we are all about emotions. That’s why we tend to base everything on how we feel. If she doesn’t have some other person who makes her feel special, she will find him. She’s already listing the requirements she wants in the next man.
In the beginning, she was probably happy to give up a career to make a home for you and the kids. Now, she feels she gave up a lot in order to be a SAHM. Life can be cruel and the rewards can be less than what we thought they would be whenever we go into making lifetime decisions. I read stories that sound a lot like yours……some have it better financially than others, but regardless of that, the W is desperately unhappy and at some point she starts fighting for her own emotional survival. At least, that is how she feels.
Your W has changed. She may point her finger at you, but life just has a way of taking its toll on us. She’s still young enough that she thinks she may have one last chance at true happiness and she’s going to be looking for it. That is a very dangerous state to be in. She is vulnerable to anything out there.
While you are waiting on your books, do some research on line for mid-life crises. Also, MWD has articles and chapters from her books here on the board.
This is going to be a terribly long road. She will not "snap" out of this. Hopefully, your M will survive, but it means that you will have to buckle down for a bumping ride. Her emotions will be all over the place, and you cannot allow yourself to think she’s coming around just because she’s more talkative or seems to be in a better mood that day. You will crash and burn if you do that. You have to stay focused on the goal and not her behavior. Do you know what that goal is?
Do not start sleeping anywhere other than your bed.
Do not ask for a separation at this time.
Do not offer to leave your home.
Don’t make threats of getting a D or anything like that, b/c she will take you up on it and that’s not what you really want.
Do not tell her you'll support her decisions or help her financially if she moves out.
Figure out why she sees you as a boy instead of a strong man…… but don’t ask her about it. How can you show more maturity?
Post every day you can, in order to keep your thread active with responses.
many thanks. It sounds like you have a very good understanding of where my wife is. A little background may help with some of the questions you asked.
Re our youngest needs he has severe learning difficulties (mainly mental) - this includes no speech, autism with some physical disabilities (i.e. he can walk but has no saving reactions when he falls - needs a constant eye on him). He also has challenging behaviour.
My wife was always the career woman in the marriage and earnt the most money. However, when our youngest was born and we started to realise his special needs we agreed my Wife would be the one to quit work and stay at home. She worked part time whilst the eldest was at school.
The decision was based on my earning potential. I had recently started a new job and the company were willing to sponsor my studies to be an accountant. We agreed that for the future this would be the best option for our financial security. For 3 years I worked longer hours, plus study and yes, my Wife took care of the household.
I have always spent as much time as possible with the kids and she still acknowledges I have been a good father (albeit she contradicted it with her comment that nothing would change if she left!).
I qualified as an accountant and then my career took off. However, it meant even longer hours and more travel. This obviously placed an even greater burden on my Wife. At weekends I always cooked, cleaned and spent time with the kids. However, we used to divide our time a lot with the children - the eldest played football and we could not take the youngest at the time because of his difficulties. My Wife used to take the eldest to football which was a bit of a break in that there was a social scene with the other parents.
However, my Wife did do the day to day decision making with regard to the household/bills etc, I would be more involved with bigger decisions regarding therapy for our youngest, holidays, bigger jobs around the house etc.
Re time on our own there has never been much of it. It was always difficult to find a babysitter as the youngest got a bit older and we got v little support from family. My parents would help to a degree but W's parents never really helped at all with childcare - hence she has a lot of resentment for that.
However, we did manage a weekend away alone each year and my parents stayed at out house to look after the kids. But this became more difficult as the youngest got older and his behaviour more challenging. About a year ago we started getting a carer who takes our youngest away for 5 hours on a Sunday. I also agreed with my boss to take the summer holidays off work to help W during the long holiday period. I did this for the last 2 years.
Anyway about 2 years ago I realised that although my Wife is independent and very strong woman that she was struggling. I was also struggling in that I was working around 18 hour days and was also stressed. She never said anything but I could tell. I decided to change jobs to one with more routine/less hours so that I could be at home more and take the pressure off myself. Truth is I always felt some guilt for W giving up her job and guess I over compensated and got carried away with my own career.
Re the strong man not a boy I think that is probably one of the periods it resonates from. I had a temporary period where I was off work for a month with stress prior to leaving my job at around the same time as she wanted someone to take over. I have also been less that perfect at DIY etc - what my wife calls daddy jobs. i.e. I tended to leave things to the last minute before doing them which I know frustrated her.
Basically when I reflect there is a lot I have done wrong. After work all my spare time went on our kids and there was very little left for W. Whilst we did talk regularly re our feelings she always used to tell me she felt loved and has never felt loved before like this. Our sex life was great for a couple with the stresses we had.
What was missing is the cuddles, time together on our own and intimacy without sex. We did cuddle etc but not enough. I feel like we had drifted and are both guilty of not setting time for each other.
I have changed a lot these last few months. I do DIY asap, make sure I am at home earlier, help out more around the house and have taken charge of finance/bills etc. I also take youngest to horse riding on a saturday morning whilst W has a lie in.
However, like many H's it is all too late. The resentment set in and she feels incredibly angry at everything. My work, the fact I was not around much, the changes I have made since, keeps raising the DIY issue and generally everything has been wrong for our marriage.
She is very bitter and says the passion has gone, she can barely stand me touching her, that she is empty. However, she does say it is her thats changed re what she wants, that I am a good father, and hopes that we can be friends.
This is where I have been confused re advice and the path to take. I am willing to put everything into this to make this work but part of me is accepting it is over.
However, generally the advice seems to be support her re plans to move out. I had to do this initially as a way to difuse the tension (obviously my very first reaction like everyones was shock, begged her to stay for a week etc etc). Things have been better since. So your advice re not supporting her has confused me - did i do the wrong things?
I would not make threats of D as it is the last thing I want and would never threat on something I was not prepared to follow through.
I will never willingly leave my home.
I beleive marriage is for life and that whatever happens I will never give up on us.
I am prepared mentally to go the distance (i had done some research on MLC) whatever that will bring.
However, given our position I don't want to be seen as ignoring her/not caring etc. Similarly I don't want to be a doormat given her comment re man and boy! But I suppose she does not care whether or not I care about her at the moment?
I just want to be here for her if she needs be, to give her the space she needs, and to keep working on my faults that should make me a better person overall. However, I feel if she leaves the support I can give her with my son will be less, this would only put more pressure on her as his main carer. I don't doubt she could cope on her own - it worries me what this will do to her though as looking after our son can be mentally and physically draining - but v rewarding at the same time.
For the record we have discussed her going to work etc in the past/me going part-time etc. However, W feels she has been out of work for so long now that she could not find a job. I have tried to support her but nothing has ever got off the ground.
I have read the MLC chapter and thanks for the link. I am seeing the doctor tommorrow to sort some counselling out for me (Wife won't go). The sad thing is that this and the lessons I am learning make me want this to work more and more as I know we could be much stronger as a couple.
I did not mean to confuse you about support for your W. I was referring to not telling her you'll support her decision to separate or sleep in different room, etc. You don't want to give the impression you are just standing around with your hands in your pockets, waiting on her decision. She needs to see you carrying on like the strong man you really are. Maybe she hasn't seen that in a while, so dig deep.
A lot of women tend to think everything will run smoothly and they'll be in their own place and have the same amount of money to operate on.....but usually they find themselves with a lot less than what they previously had......unless the H forks over the financial support for both households.
Validate her when she expresses how she feels, but don't tell her you'll support a separation. You don't want to S, do you? If you do, I'm sure it's out of frustration and you're thinking she'll be back home in a few weeks. You may be able to help her financially and help keep the S, but don't be telling her all of that up front. She needs to see a S as not being the answer to her problems. Don't tell her you won't help her.....but just be a little quieter about that subject.
Support her in other ways. Your description of things you have not been good to do is a perfect 180 beginning.
Does your community have a facility or program for parents with special needs children where they can receive care for their child while they take the evening off.....or a few days? We have one in our small town and the employees are trained in how to care for them while parents have some free time. However, you said he was in a special school, and that doesn't seem to be enough for your W to recover while he's away every day. So, IDK. I just can't imagine how draining it must be physically & mentally.
Her self-esteem is very low. Why does she feel everyone steps on her?
I suggest that you continue on and not discuss the MR. If she wants to talk....fine. But you just listen. Men want to fix the M by talking. All that does is speed up the process to end the M. Don't try to take her emotional temperature.
Expect nothing from her. She has nothing to give, right now. Especially don't expect her to work on the M. Yes, you are the only one working on the M, so expect it and continue on. Whenever a W is talking about a S, she doesn't want to repair the M, she wants to leave it. So, going to MC, reading material, watching tapes, etc., usually doesn't work for the WAS. They feel it's too late.
It is not too late for you. Your M can be saved. But if it is saved, it will be b/c you work really hard on yourself and show her what it could be like if she stayed. Right now, she just wants to escape to a place where she feels like that happy-go-lucky girl again.
This will not be teamwork. I think that's what trips some LBH's up....is b/c they keep expecting the WAW to put forth effort to save the M. It's all on you for now, and probably a long spell.....until she sees the man she fell in love with and decides his changes will stick.
Don't tell her you love her, and don't try to give her hugs & kisses. If she initiates the physical touches, then you "mirror" what she does. Let her lead. Don't go crazy if she slips up and calls you "honey" or even says ILY out of habit. It doesn't mean everythings's fixed.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
First, sorry you've had to find your way here but rest assured there is a ton of wisdom on these forums and here you will find something that you won't find elsewhere- hope for your marriage. No matter how dark it may seem rest assured there have been many amazing reconcilation stories even when it seemed there was no hope. So take heart!
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Wife stated she can't stand me touching her, re-written our marriage history to say everything was wrong - even the sex which she used to be so into but now is saying that it was sex and not love making. Other things include lack of emotional support, neglect and not helping around the house.
Take her seriously, take stock of the things she's told you. Write them down. Commit to changing these things about yourself. Understand that your W does not want to go back to your old M and neither should you. It failed. So change yourself, that's all you have control over. Read DR over and over again and live by it. Show your W a new, happy, confident, strong you. Show her you will be fine with or without her. Don't pursue. Don't talk about the M. Make yourself better and give her time to sort through her emotions and hopefully decide she wants to come back to you to establish a NEW, BETTER marriage.
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She has put a wall up saying she won't give in to changing her mind, that she wants more passion in her life, that she needs to find herself.
Don't dwell on anything she says right now, it's her emotions talking:
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
Validate her emotions, tell her things like "I understand why you feel this way and I want you to be happy no matter what that means for us." NO conflict right now! You have to make her feel you're on her side.
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She is being very private with e-mail and mobile but no other man - mutual friend and my own detective work has confirmed this although can never be 100% certain.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
Spying never makes things better and often makes things worse. You may find things out that you don't want to know, and if W discovers you're spying it will be a huge setback in your R.
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She has told our mutual friends that it is all my fault, that she wants a strong man, that the last 13 years have been a mistaken and she has had enough.
Again, it's her emotions talking. In your OP you are dwelling far too much on what she's saying. Don't do that! Let it roll off of you. She's not the person you knew and she's going to say hurtful things. You need to take the moral high road. She's in a fog right now, you need to be a lighthouse beacon through the fog. Solid, reliable, trustworthy; regardless of how much she tries to hurt you, you remain true to yourself and others. Don't defend yourself, if you stand strong people will see it and respect you for it. Your W too, although she won't let you know until much later.
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She is getting angrier by the changes in that why could I not have done them sooner, it makes no difference no and there is no way she sees a future in our marriage.
You're not making the changes for HER, you're making them for YOU. You can tell her that if you want. The idea with GAL is to make yourself a better, stronger, more attractive person. This will hopefully bring your W back, but even if it doesn't you still benefit.
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She keeps referring back to needing to find herself, that she has changed in what she wants, she then says it is not me it is her, but contradicts herself by saying it is all my fault.
Again, disregard what she says. Expect LOTS of contradictory, confusing statements in the coming weeks/ months.
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So how do I deal with this. After the initial shock and begging I am trying to disrtance myself and focus on my sons, myself by getting to the gym but it is all starting to tear me up.
No more begging! Yes, focusing on your sons and getting to the gym are good things. Also reach out and contact old friends, start building yourself a support group. If you can find men who have gone through similar situations it will help immensely. You'll be surprised that when you start talking to friends some of them will have gone through the same thing even though you never knew about it.
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I have read about detachment and everytime I start to feel progress my Wife starts being nice and I am back to square 1.
This is the "pursuit/ distance" dynamic. When you detach, your W will sense that you're distancing and she will pursue. You need to keep detaching when she does this, because if you go into pursuit mode she'll go right back to distancing which is why you end up back to square 1.
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I have told her I accept her decision etc and will support her. That has difused everything and the tension is a lot less. I have stopped snooping as there is still a nagging doubt re OM in my search for answers to all this.
GOOD! This is what you should do. Now don't backslide! Stick with the game plan. If she wants to leave, just agree with her that it may be best. In fact it probably is for the best, WAW's can never seem to get their heads straight as long as they stay home. But when they move out, the fog starts to clear.
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Can someone please advise how i handle this. We are still sleeping in the same bed (no touching/intimacy) but it is like a ticking time bomb until she sorts out a place of her own. I 100% want this to work but don't want to carry on in what feels like limbo at the moment. I have ordered DR but has not arrived yet but did read the chapter on this site.
Don't expect a turnaround while she's at home. After BD my W and I still slept in the same bed and even ML, we went to MC, etc. It didn't help. She was set on moving out and that's what she's done. I know EXACTLY what you mean when you say it's like being in limbo, because that's exactly what it was for me. Much of what I read in your OP sounds like my W's script as well. I hope you can accept that she's probably going to leave, and that it's probably for the best, and that it'll take many months for the sitch to change for the better. In the meantime keep working out, keep strengthening your R with your kids and work on improving yourself.
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On my last thread a poster confirmed it sounds like MLC. That was my assumption but a mutual friend commented that W did not look herself, looked depressed and was shaking when talking to her.
I spent a lot of time trying to "diagnose" my W, but the bottom line is it's a waste of time. You'll want to tell her why she's doing what she's doing, but what she'll hear is "there's nothing wrong with me, you're doing this because there's something wrong with you" and she'll shut down. If you fix the things about yourself that she's complaining about, she'll see it and appreciate it even if she doesn't say so now. That should be your approach. Fix yourself. Only she can sort through her issues and that's going to take time.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
Forgot to mention, you might want to read the Married Man Sex Life Primer. This comment is probably coming from the fact that you were originally a mix of alpha and beta when you met your W, but like most married men you've become almost all beta with no alpha. This is a very clear statement from her that she wants you to be more alpha. The books goes into great detail on how to do this.
Great advice from AnotherStander. I agree with each of his points -- especially since I have made some mistakes but also seen a few minor results early on based on the same type of feedback.
What a hard road we are travelling and yet hope is not lost and I love feeling better about me in the process.
M:44 W:41 M: 12 yrs W's EA began 3/12 Somewhere between WAW and MLC Still in same house
thanks all for the feedback/advice. It is very much appreciated and I take a lot of comfort from them.
Sandi 2. Thanks again and I will try to answer some of your Q's:
Why does wife feel everone steps on her - thinks comes from her childhood. Her dad died when she was 7 (cancer) and her mum had what seems to be a nervous breakdown and did not cope v well. W was constantly trying to please her but got knocked back. Her mum did not really support the children through this period as she was dealing with her own stress/emotion. W feels she has carried the pleasing into her married life. She was emotionally abused in her last M through trying to please and being taken advantage of. She feels that she has been the main person trying to please in our M. I don't see it at all that way but there are some aspects I can see how she may have interpreted things that way. Again, me working long hours, her making sure the household was run was her way of pleasing me as well as it needing to be done. I see that clearly now but in the thick of the day 2 day stuff did not show my appreciation as much as I could have. I did show it - just perhaps not as often as she would have liked. We have had discussions in the past about how she tries to please other people too much and I have told her it is ok to say no as she has a lot on. However, she felt helping others a distraction from the mundane day 2 day routine so I never pushed this. But she has always taken on too much with not much help from others in return. I think basically she has felt like a doormat.
For the record no Separation is the last think I want. Whilst I understand the need for her to get away out of the fog I think given our specific circumstances it would push her deeper into it at the moment. But I am prepared for S if that is what it takes.
Re other support it is very difficult here. Special needs is v low on govts agendas and hence there is v little money available. If our son was a robber or mugged old people we would get plenty support! but hey I'm getting politicial
Just to be clear I do not expect anything from W. I am willing to put in what it takes and can do this to either a happy end or D. W is emotional enough and I don't want to add to the pressure. I just want W to feel better in herself at the moment. To me our relationship is on hold until she can do that. In my soul searching I can see the faults in our marriage and would completely agree that any move forward would definately mean not going back to how we were.
I am enjoying doing jobs etc I never did before - it is making me feel better and giving me more confidence around the house.
AnotherStander - thanks so much for the list of responses. I am prepared for S and you are absoloutely right in your comments re snooping and trying to diagnose W. I drove myself mad with this and decided that what will be will be. There is nothing I can do or have control over other than myself.
I have always been determined and this is like nothing I have ever faced. But I will not give up on my M and family. I love what we have too much but completely agree that if there is a hope of R it needs to be completely different. This is the frustating thing - I know we could have an even stronger, better relationship than before if we get through this. It is this that keeps me going. If I did think about going back to how things were then I would probably want to S myself having had this wakeup to think about things properly.
Williams - the hardest and possibly the longest road ever! I always remember a stranger coming up to me in the park when I was with my youngest S and saying "God has a way of placing the biggest burdens on the strongest shoulders". Not sure if that is a quote from the bible - No idea who he was and yet I have always taken comfort from that in difficult times.
Anyway - update for today is that W was brighter this am. I have got youngest S ready for bed and about to read him his story. Then its the Gym, dog walk and rest.
Keep in touch and best of luck with your sitchs. It is good to here from people in the same place as I am and it is keeping me going at the moment.
