Back to Square One?

[Wendylon]

Divorce Busting has come back into my life recently as I realised that H is behaving very suspiciously and I think there is an OW, once again, eight years on from the last time I was seriously here.

While I practiced DB principles in 2004, it's scary how quickly I let go of them once our M seemed back on track. I'm hopeful though that I will be able to resurrect the principles and bring them back to life pretty quickly this time.

Looking back over the past year, I can see that I have definitely made lots of mistakes. His LL is words of affirmation and I haven't been good with that. I've been critical and fed up with him, for good reason as I see it, but it hasn't helped one little bit. He hasn't been pulling his weight in terms of family responsibilities and he has been pretty grumpy and unpleasant. I had a terrible birthday on August 14 because he took OW to a play on Aug 13 that I thought we were going to go to together. (I can't remember how to link threads but my last one is 'Unilateral Disarmament' with more detail about this incident).

This past week (before leaving for my trip), I have taken the spotlight off of him, and haven't questioned his late home-comings. I think he and OW go out for drinks because he smells of alcohol nearly every day, which he didn't in the past. I just arrived in Montreal to see my grandmother so he's in sole charge of the kids for a week with a fair amount of care that I've organised for S13 (special needs). I didn't feel that I could trust H to attend to all the details. I imagine that H will be out of the house as much as he can be while I'm away. He tends to sleep a lot as well so I didn't want S13 wandering around the house on his own.

I'm away for a week. H hasn't mentioned OW to me since Aug 14 when I was v upset but I know that he is hoping to go on more work-related trips with her and I know he spends lots of time at a community work-place called The Hub, which is where they met. There is a cafe/bar there so I wonder if that is why he comes home smelling of alcohol.

When I confronted him about OW, H said that there was absolutely nothing going on but that obviously he'd noticed that she was attractive. He turned my question around to say that he didn't think we could stay together because I'd never trust him again after his A in 2004. In the meantime, the last time we ML was about a year ago. He's just said that statins have decreased his libido. I don't actually find him very attractive at the moment so it's not really a problem for me.

At one point this year, when we were having a difficult time, he suggested that we wait 3 years (at which point D15 would be off to university) and then see if we wanted to stay together. I wonder if that is his plan--wait it out 3 years.

Here I am in Canada and obsessing about him back in London. Hopefully, I can use this break to re-read MWD's books and prepare myself for how I'll behave on my return.

I haven't heard from him today yet. I don't even know if I should email/text/phone to see how things are going or whether I should wait for him to make contact.

Any advice most welcome.

[AnotherStander]

Hi Wendylon, so sorry you're back! Good to hear you're able to recognize your part in the deterioration of the R, so time to get to work

Looking back over the past year, I can see that I have definitely made lots of mistakes. His LL is words of affirmation and I haven't been good with that. I've been critical and fed up with him, for good reason as I see it, but it hasn't helped one little bit.

You're obviously familiar with 5LL, so if you haven't already, my first suggestion is to read it again and refresh yourself on the principals. As a reminder, the purpose of 5LL is to fill your partner's love tank whether you think they deserve it or not, because once you fill it then great things start happening. Don't sit around waiting for him to change or become more positive, YOU need to take action to make that happen.

He hasn't been pulling his weight in terms of family responsibilities and he has been pretty grumpy and unpleasant.

Sounds like his love tank is empty. Fill it, then he'll start filling yours. DO NOT tell him what he's not doing right, he'll perceive it as nagging and the sitch will just get worse. Remember the 5LL principals, fill his love tank and he will take the initiative to improve other things like this.

I didn't feel that I could trust H to attend to all the details. I imagine that H will be out of the house as much as he can be while I'm away. He tends to sleep a lot as well so I didn't want S13 wandering around the house on his own.

You've got to trust him. There's a blurb in DR where Michele touches on this, about how she would always get in the middle of arguments between her D and H and no one ended up happy. Then she finally realized it was a cheeseless tunnel and quit pressuring her H, and once he realized she trusted him he went out of his way to improve his R with their D. It wasn't until she backed off and trusted him that he felt the freedom to take control.

H hasn't mentioned OW to me since Aug 14 when I was v upset but I know that he is hoping to go on more work-related trips with her and I know he spends lots of time at a community work-place called The Hub, which is where they met. There is a cafe/bar there so I wonder if that is why he comes home smelling of alcohol.

Quit worrying about OW and focus on you and your R. Fill your H's love tank and practice DB and he won't need or want the OW anymore.

In the meantime, the last time we ML was about a year ago. He's just said that statins have decreased his libido. I don't actually find him very attractive at the moment so it's not really a problem for me.

Don't assume that neither of you needs sex. I guarantee you H does or there would be no OW in the picture. And I bet you need it more than you realize as well. His primary LL may be WOA, but I promise you that rocking his world with mind-blowing sex will go a long ways towards filling his love tank too. You should work on all 5 love languages, not just the primary.

Good luck!

[Wendylon]

I waited and didn't initiate contact. I'm glad I waited because he sent several emails (with links to articles to read) and then seemed keener to talk than usual. Having said that, I'm the one who emailed and said I was in hotel room if he wanted to call. Unfortunately, he's the one who ended the convo first.

I would love to change that pattern. Whether it's on the phone or in person, I've noticed that he's always the one who leaves first. Even when we watch something on TV, he is the first one out of the room. Often, I'm taken aback by how abruptly he disengages from me. Often, I'm still waiting for him to come back into the room because I can't believe he's actually gone back to his own thing with no warning. I just end up feeling abandonned and annoyed

I'll try to Skype with my S17 and D15 without getting him involved. I've spoken to H once today so I'll leave it at that, unless he initiates which I doubt he will. I'll try not to even ask S17 or D15 if he's home. He wasn't when I spoke to him an hour ago. There is a carer with S13 for another 30 mins so H could easily not be home yet and anyway S17 and D15 can keep an eye on S13 (special needs) so even more reason for H not to be home yet. I don't even want to try to find out!

[Wendylon]

Just Skyped with my kids. Sure enough, H wasn't home even though it was 9 pm there.

I heard him coming into the house so made a point of getting off Skype with D15. Normally, I would have wanted to see him too but he knows how to Skype me if he wants to.

I hate that he spends so much time away from home--even when I'm not there and he could be having some QT with kids.

[Wendylon]

I woke up feeling as if I'm in the middle of a strategic/depressing war. I'm really tempted to hire a private investigator so that I actually know what I'm up against.

I'm determined to react differently to things when I get home (in five days' time). H has been spoiling for fights this past year. I want to walk away from the situation when he provokes me. I get especially upset if he is nasty.

Last time I came home from being away, I made some comment about how he needed to be awake when looking after S13. He said very aggressively, "You just watch it that your being away isn't more pleasant than you're being back home". I felt so unfairly attacked because every time he comes back from work trips, I find his presence really difficult in that he is home but not helping. I find it easier when he's away because it's then clear that I'm the one who needs to get things done.

I do feel low about our M.

[AnotherStander]

Hi Wendylon, I replied a few days ago but it appears it's stuck in the moderator queue. I'm over 100 posts now, so can reply right away rather than going through moderation. I may be repeating myself if my previous post ever gets approved and shows up, but here we go:

First I would say don't hire a PI. Whether there is an OW or not it doesn't really change your DB approach. And if you go down that road, if H finds out then it's going to wreck your chances of fixing things.

While I practiced DB principles in 2004, it's scary how quickly I let go of them once our M seemed back on track. I'm hopeful though that I will be able to resurrect the principles and bring them back to life pretty quickly this time.

It's good that you can acknowledge you've backslid. Time to sit down and make a list of 180's again, and implement them! Take stock of what's not working in your R and do 180's on those things. Don't try to fix your H, he needs to work on that and it will come with time. Work on you.

Looking back over the past year, I can see that I have definitely made lots of mistakes. His LL is words of affirmation and I haven't been good with that. I've been critical and fed up with him, for good reason as I see it, but it hasn't helped one little bit.

Like the old saying goes, you can be right or you can be happily married Go back and read the 5LL again, when you're critical he sees it as nagging and neither of you gets what you want. Instead, quit nagging him and start filling his love tank and it will inspire him to do the things you want him to do (or quit doing what you don't want him to do).

I didn't feel that I could trust H to attend to all the details. I imagine that H will be out of the house as much as he can be while I'm away.

You've got to trust him. Michele talks about this in DR, she and her husband used to fight a lot over how her H took care of their D while she was away. She was constantly in the middle of it. Then she realized it was "more of the same" behavior and she changed it. She quit arguing with her husband about it and he did a 180 and started taking better care of their D on his own. Your child's safety is of course paramount, but if you've either got to trust your H or make other arrangements, not leave H to take care of S and then constantly badger him over how he's doing it.

When I confronted him about OW, H said that there was absolutely nothing going on but that obviously he'd noticed that she was attractive.

What's important is why H needs OW at all. People don't seek out other R's unless there's something wrong at home. You've admitted there is, and that's what you need to work on. Give your H the W he needs and it'll take away his desire for OW.

In the meantime, the last time we ML was about a year ago. He's just said that statins have decreased his libido. I don't actually find him very attractive at the moment so it's not really a problem for me.

It's a huge problem for you. Regardless of what H says, he needs intimacy and you do too. No sex for a year is an invitation for the spouse to seek it elsewhere. Again, read the 5LL again. Follow the advice. Fill your H's love tank not just in his primary LL, but all of them.

I haven't heard from him today yet. I don't even know if I should email/text/phone to see how things are going or whether I should wait for him to make contact.

What is your previous behavior and how has it gone for you? If you frequently contact him and he seems cold/ distant, time for a 180. Let him contact you. However, if you never contact him and let him contact you, then you should start initiating contact. Do the opposite of what you've been doing. Do it for a week or more, see how it goes. Reevaluate depending on whether things improve or get worse.

Good luck!

[Starsky309]

I woke up feeling as if I'm in the middle of a strategic/depressing war. I'm really tempted to hire a private investigator so that I actually know what I'm up against.

If you can afford it, I think this is a great idea. Find out the truth, and deal with it accordingly. Often, your imagination is much worse than the truth, but even if it's not, wouldn't you rather have accurate information?


Starsky

[Tumbling]

Hello Wendylon
I just wanted to drop by and say thanks for commenting and advising on my thread when I was feeling so badly the other week.

I am sorry you find your Self back here. I understand you feel bad about your M right now but feel a little positive that you have succeeded here before and by what you say LL was part of your solution.

Tumbling

[StubbornDyke]

Hey Wendy. It's been a long time. How are the kids doing?

You're getting good advice about being positive and filling his love tank. I read how hard it is for you to avoid criticizing. I'm reminded of my own short fuse and how irritable I can be.

This is a bit of a detour so take it for what it's worth... I've found that endorphins (exercise) and sunshine or equivalent (cod liver oil) noticeably reduce my irritability. Will power is necessary, but it's not fair for it to be climbing an uphill battle.

I hope you had a good visit with your grandmother.

[Wendylon]

Thank you so much, Another Stander, for your thoughtful and detailed reply. I've been home just over 24 hours and already finding the R difficult. It was so nice to log on and get your advice and encouragement. It all makes so much sense.

First I would say don't hire a PI. Whether there is an OW or not it doesn't really change your DB approach. And if you go down that road, if H finds out then it's going to wreck your chances of fixing things.

I keep wavering on this one. Thank you for sharing your view. I sometimes see it your way and also figure that I'd rather spend the money on something nice for me. Having said that, I have no idea what it would cost.

Don't try to fix your H, he needs to work on that and it will come with time. Work on you.

I've been dying to point out to him that I know he's either involved with an OW and has taken to drinking, or at least the latter. I've resisted so far but kept rehearsing in my head last night how I was going to say it to him. I could smell alcohol emanating from him in bed. He isn't drunk but I can tell he's been drinking every day. He was doing secret eating last year which then morphed into secret smoking, and now it's secret drinking. Both my parents are alcoholics and he knows that I'm uptight about alcohol. Nonetheless, I'd rather he wasn't secretive about it. Back to your advice: I need to leave him to it and work on myself. It's great to be reminded of it. I know it but somehow that knowledge doesn't stick when I'm feeling anxious.

What's important is why H needs OW at all. People don't seek out other R's unless there's something wrong at home. You've admitted there is, and that's what you need to work on. Give your H the W he needs and it'll take away his desire for OW.

Won't it look really weird and suspect if I start complimenting him all of a sudden?

Regardless of what H says, he needs intimacy and you do too. No sex for a year is an invitation for the spouse to seek it elsewhere.

I really don't know how I'd begin on this one. I feel that the ball is in his court. For many years, I instigated.

What is your previous behavior and how has it gone for you? If you frequently contact him and he seems cold/ distant, time for a 180. Let him contact you. However, if you never contact him and let him contact you, then you should start initiating contact. Do the opposite of what you've been doing. Do it for a week or more, see how it goes.

I initiate contact to do with logistics. He often sends me impersonal emails with links to interesting articles or to jokes. I usually respond to those and thank him and send a smiley face.

Thank you so much, Another Stander. I'll check out your sitch (if I can figure out how to do that!)