Where to begin. My wife has just ended a 4 month infidelity, which I pushed out the door by sheer tenacity I think. Many on another forum suggested that this was an Exit affair on her part and after reading Michelle's book, I truly believe I am dealing with a WAW. Although she has not left, the sentiments surrounding her affair and her comments are very strikingly similar to that described on this website and in Michelle's book Divorce Remedy. The fact that she is still here, perhaps has less to do with her feelings and more to do with her affair partner's inability to leave his own W and kids. Though this is conjecture on my part. Furthermore, the affair was predominately long distance and almost entirely emotional. (I can provide more details as needed). As per the topic of this forum, I believe that I am trying to piece this marriage back together. And while I have been working on it for several months (since D-Day) she claims to have only been working on it for two weeks (since affair ending). She says that she is 'still here and is trying.' My biggest concern now is her comments which approximate the following; She still does not love me, says there is no passion (I was given the ILYBNILWY statement, which led me to confront her about an affair). She is afraid that she can never love me or have the feeling she needs to have. And finally, all of my attempts to get said feeling from her seem to be failing and frustrating to her. Furthermore, I am frustrated and don't know what else to do. So the question, is my relationship still doomed, even if the affair is over? And if not, what steps can I take to rebuild the bridge between us?
{some back story for those who need it: I have been married for 4+ years and have been in a relationship off and on (mostly on) with my W for nearly a decade. We have three children, the oldest born before marriage, and was perhaps the catalyst for our long term relationship, and the youngest is 7 months. We were bound by constraint, but I want our marriage to work.}
And finally, all of my attempts to get said feeling from her seem to be failing and frustrating to her. Furthermore, I am frustrated and don't know what else to do.
You said that you read the book Divorce Remedy...sooo this is not generally a good tactic and you should likely stop.
You are not going to force her into feeling this way, telling you that she changed her mind and hell I can understand why she would be frustrated.
On an aside you'll get more reads and advice in Newcomers. While you can post anywhere here...Piecing is generally for those where both parties are working or attmepting to work on rebuilding the marriage.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
My biggest concern now is her comments which approximate the following; She still does not love me, says there is no passion (I was given the ILYBNILWY statement, which led me to confront her about an affair). She is afraid that she can never love me or have the feeling she needs to have.
Yeah, that's straight out of the WAW script. Have you read DB and DR? I'd also recommend Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough". If she talks about leaving, tell her you understand and support her decision. She may very well have to leave to get her thoughts together, otherwise you'll be in limbo for quite some time. Don't argue about it or get in her way. Validate her feelings, you can do that without agreeing with her (IE, "You want to leave? I understand why you feel that way and I support your decision, I want you to be happy even if that means leaving me").
Originally Posted By: icDude
And finally, all of my attempts to get said feeling from her seem to be failing and frustrating to her. Furthermore, I am frustrated and don't know what else to do.
First, quit trying to make her feel anything, you can't. You can only change YOU. Read DB/ DR, make a list of your 180's and implement them right away. Take serious stock of what you've done that has made your wife unhappy and do 180's on those things. Don't tell your W you're changing, just do it:
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
And give her space and time, right now she needs both.
Originally Posted By: icDude
So the question, is my relationship still doomed, even if the affair is over? And if not, what steps can I take to rebuild the bridge between us?
It absolutely is not doomed, there are many success stories on these forums even after separations of years. Read DB/ DR, post often here, and don't try to rebuild the bridge, build YOU into a new, improved, good-looking, sexy, attractive you and your W will notice.
Well I feel like she is trying to work on the marriage as well. Just her sentiments scare me. I also wanted to get advice from people who had been through the drama and were wiser for it.
As Jack wisely states, you can't legislate your wife's FEELINGS. All you can do is effectively lay out your own boundaries about her BEHAVIOR. The feelings will take time -- almost TWO YEARS for my wife and I, and that's pretty typical.
Love may be a decision, but the FEELINGS of "in love" are emotional and even chemical. They take awhile to return.
What sort of boundaries did you guys put in place when her affair ended? No-contact/transparency? MCing with a good MC specifically trained in infidelity? Maybe Retrouvaille? Anything?
Most people I've seen that fail to put these elements in place are doomed to find themselves right back here in time. WITH those things in place, it's still a damned-hard slog, but it's very possible and -- over time -- your wife's "in love" feelings for you will return.
I re-read some of DR and decided I needed to back off, which is kinda what my W is saying. Doing more of the activities that she wants from me; i.e. household tasks, childcare.
I set up bounderies with her. No contact is in place and I ask for tranparancy (of course I can never be sure that she is being transparent, so I find this one a little nuts). We are seeing an MC and are both seeing ICs periodically.
By backing off, I got a better response from my W. Not robust love making or anything but she came up to me and sat with my arm around her to share something on her iPad and wanted me to hold her at night. I do think we are getting improvements. For example, divorce is no longer on the table and it was when this first came out.
I re-read some of DR and decided I needed to back off, which is kinda what my W is saying. Doing more of the activities that she wants from me; i.e. household tasks, childcare.
Supplication is rarely attractive, esp. when a man displays it towards a woman. Do you GENUINELY feel like you don't do enough around there? Is it a true "180" for you to do more, or are you doing this to supplicate your wife?
Tell us more about your transparency plan. Does she share all online accounts and passwords with you? Did she change her e-mail addresses and phone #s after her last affair?
So, I guess I don't have a transparency plan. I have her telling me stuff and showing me stuff. The major problem that I had was that she has a work email, phone, and internet devices which I don't have access to. This is really not something I can change. What I have is her word that she has ended this affair (which is of course worth piss all in wake of her betrayal) and the changes in her attitude toward me, which are strong tells. Do I know she has ended the affair? No I don't. I know that all outward signs of the affair have ended and she is telling me and everyone else she has ended it; Even those that she doesn't know I am speaking with. And she is not good at keeping a secret. (her affair lasted six weeks before I caught on, but it was all online and phone calls before one physical encounter, her behavior toward me was the tell there as well.) But second. I don't want to keep pestering her about this affair. She claims to want to work on us. I could demand transparency in all things, but that would seems both like a weak move and a desperate one. I'm not the police and she is not a criminal. If she wants to tie her own rope, it will come out in the wash, and that will be that. Meanwhile, you say supplication is weak. See the above for another weak move. (but it may be something I ask for again if I feel it necessary) I have freely admitted to her that I have been absent from our home life. I hadn't done our laundry in the four years of our marriage and maybe for the greater majority of our relationship before that. Yes I have done a 180 by picking up on the chores. I was furthermore, depressive and negative quite a lot of the time and obsessed with my work. I have shifted focus toward my family and have made a constant effort to point out the positives rather than the negative. She claims that she doesn't know if she can love me like she should, which bothers me, because in Michele's book that is one of the signs that she is still having an affair. Or it could just be too early and that she is still resolving feelings from this affair. (more on the affair partner as needed.) These are my concerns. And I am still hoping to get past them sooner rather than later. But judging from some of the other posts on this forum, many of you have been at this for months or years,and many of your stories seem much more unbearable then mine as well. Those of you who have fought through this toward a better marriage have shown great strength and that is why I am here.
So, I guess I don't have a transparency plan. I have her telling me stuff and showing me stuff. The major problem that I had was that she has a work email, phone, and internet devices which I don't have access to. This is really not something I can change.
You have every right to ask for -- and get -- COMPLETE NO-CONTACT, and FULL TRANSPARENCY from her as part of your recovery. The problem you're in now is, she already doesn't seem to care about working on things, so you have no leverage in this regard. The time to communicate what your short list of "deal-breakers" are -- your Boundaries of Personal Intregrity, as I like to call them -- are when the wayward is asking "What would it take for me to come back to the marriage?"
Not sure what you can do now, other than just ASSUME she is either still in contact with OM (or an OM2), or she merely wants to maintain a way that she CAN be, if she wants to.
Good for you on the 180s; it sounds like those are things that you indeed had to step up. Just make sure you are doing them because YOU feel it's "The Right Thing to Do," and not looking for some quid-pro-quo reaction out of her. And then just fold in a couple of "manly-man" things, like put a set of drums in the living room, or hang one of those velvet "Dogs Playing Cards" things on the wall, or join a men's rugby league or something.
Well I have a lot of manly things I already do. The problem is that the marriage really didn't end. Just came really close. And she never moved out, but I had to push her to end this thing with this guy. It was odd. She wanted to stay, perhaps for the kids, perhaps because this guy is really a tool who had his own W and kids and wouldn't support her... but that of course wasn't going to work for me. Still I wanted to keep the marriage together. Hence MC and laying down boundaries. She is under no circumstance to resume contact with him and if I find out that she has, the shoe will drop. This is her chance to save the marriage and she can blow it if she wants to. Until then I will give her the benefit of the doubt ...and have sex with her (which may be my quid-pro-quo, but it makes me think she is trying).
