My wife came home - sorry I did not get the chance to proof read the post above.
Meant to finish by saying that the hard part is not letting the fear and emotions take control but I feel good that these changes are really sticking as I have remained really positive through the conversation and even afterwards. just have to keep focusing on myself and hopefully, eventually, she will commit to the marriage.
At lunch we talked about how she is bored as a stay at home mom and she fills guilty about it. As the kids get older it is not fulfilling. This something we have talked a bit about over the last few weeks and it made sense and I understand her struggles there.
Make sure you validate her emotions on this and ask her what she thinks she can do to make her life better/ more enjoyable. It sounds pretty clear that she's not happy, and if she's not happy then disaster is looming. One thing most people don't understand is it is not their spouse's fault or their children's fault they're not happy, happiness comes from within. They will abandon everything in search of happiness like it's something tangible that they just need to grab onto to solve all their problems. You can't make her happy, but you can create an environment that fosters her happiness. Find out what that environment is. Maybe once a week you watch the kids while she goes out with friends, or goes to a painting class or something. Tell her how important it is to you and brainstorm it with her.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
Then she mentioned one of her best friends is going through some of the same things in her marriage (EA / unhappy) and I was shocked.
Ah, so she has an enabler. My W does too. Very typical in these situations. They feed off of each other.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
She is really torn between staying and going. She acknowledged that I have changed but she does not understand how I could change so much so quickly. She wished she could change like that but she can not and she does not have feelings like she did before for me.
Don't worry, that's a perfectly normal and common reaction. It will take a lot of time for her to understand your 180's are real. Right now she thinks you're just doing it to get her back and then will fall into your old ways. She spent months or years building a wall around herself and she won't love you again until the wall comes down, but it takes time.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
She was worried that if we divorce the kids will hate her because it will be all her fault and she implied that she was upset because it seemed like I was now a "perfect husband" and yet she could still not be happy.
Most walkways feel similar guilt, but rarely express it until much later. And she can be happy with the "perfect husband", but it'll take her time to come to that realization. Don't try to convince her, just stick with your 180's and show her a happy, confident you. Do validate her concerns, listen to her intently, make lots of eye contact, tell her you understand why she feels that way. Repeat her emotions back to her, tell her things like "it sounds like you're really upset over this, I'm sorry to see you so upset." You're not agreeing, just validating.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
She also said that she did not feel that she could be intimate with me again physically. That the feelings were not there. She even broached the possibility of us staying together without being physically intimate. That was hard to hear and is not what I want and I hope that is just a manifestation of her current feelings and conflicts.
Memorize DB tip 32:
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
Again, empathize. Tell her you understand why she feels that way. But don't believe it, she probably doesn't believe it herself and months down the road will be shocked at some of the things that came out of her mouth.
Your sitch actually sounds very promising, don't get discouraged! You're doing 180's, she not only has noticed them but has acknowledged them! She's not talking about leaving anytime soon, she's looking at a minimum 90 day window, she still wants to do things with you, all very good signs!
The changes are for me and the sad thing is I could not be happier with who I am now and what I hope to become. Also ashamed at what I was. Getting rid of my negative view point on everything has opened up the world to me and some employees at my company have even commented on how I seem to be more relaxed and do not get bent out of shape over little things. Just hope to share the new me with my wife for the rest of our lives but I also realize that if things do not work out I need to change who I am to have a chance at long term relationships in the future too.
The expectations are hard to manage because we do get along so well together and I have very strong feelings for her but I have to remind myself that until she is ready we are really just best friends.
Hi Anotherstrander. Have not been on the board lately. Had some great moments with my wife and others that make me recognize that me and my wife are going through different things and on different paths but hopefully they lead to the same destination.
I will fill you in. Just poopped in to see how you were doing but it will be good to write this out to help reflect on it. A lot has happened so I am not even sure of the exact timeline but here it goes:
The morning after I posted my wife came home from taking the kids to school about a half hour later than normal. I was on the phone for work and once I got off she asked me to lay down on the bed. She then snuggled with me and it was amazing. First real physical contact like that since the bomb. She was late getting back because she was talking with the Realtor that had gone through her own divorce about 6 years ago. Not 100% sure what she told my wife but it had to do with the "other side of divorce" and my wife also mentioned that the Realtor told her that when she got divorced her husband had not tried to change to save the marriage and if I was really changing she (my wife) needed to try too. My wife admitted to me that she had not been trying and that she was going to. That if we both tried we could make it. She said she was going to start focusing on the present and not the past. I had sent her an email earlier in the year that probably set this all in motion. It was really harsh and it was a stupid mistake. It was the old me to the extreme. She admitted that she has been reading it a lot and that she was going to delete it. She said that she wanted to spend as much time as possible together. I was overwhelmed. We had plans to go paddle boarding and I actually had to remind her that we needed to go. We went paddle boarding and had a great time.
That was about a week ago and we have spent a great deal of time together since. Probably 80-90%. I can do this as I am fortunate to own my own business and while it is not ideal I have stopped working for the most part. My wife is more important to me than my business. Been a fun week. We went out until 2 in the morning twice - something I have not done in over a decade. My wife helped me get a new wardrobe. Apparently my taste is worse than I thought . We watched some shows together that my wife initiated. Still not a lot of physical contact and I can not do anything more that a light touch here and there. But that is fine. Happy to be where I am today and that is a big part of my 180.
Not everything is perfect and I have not expected it to be.
A few days ago after a great day together she rolled over in bed and hugged me. I do not think she said anything. If she did I missed it. It lasted maybe a minute and she went back to her side of the bed and said she was still furious with me. I am ok with that. I hope it is part of the process of her healing.
Today we were in the car after a 45 minute trip to take one of our pets to a specialist. On the way back she opened up and said she was still having a hard time with this. She can not understand how I can change so quickly. That I am desperate to keep her and once she agrees to stay I will change back. That one of her friends recommended that she do something to test me. (It will not work - my 180's are pretty set I am proud to say). That she thinks the kids will hate her if she leaves. She admitted to being depressed. She acknowledge that I have been the "perfect husband" and yet she can still not be happy and she does not know if she can love me again. She is still angry with me. I have a trip next Friday for five days for an important business trip but I was planning on talking to her about not going so I brought that up. I asked if we are spending to much time together and asked if she needed a break or if I should stay home instead of going on the trip. She told me she does not know what she wants. I told her I understood her feelings and I understood why she might think my changes are not permanent and I really do understand. Not just saying it. She is obviously in a lot of conflict still and that is understandable given that she just decided a week ago to try and work on the relationship. I am worried about her mental health. I did tell her that she was my hero. That most couples in this situation were not where we are and I know she is trying (At least I think she is). I also told her that I had no expectations about us except for what we are doing today. Not sure what else to say or if anything should be said. Only time and me changing will fix this if it is fixable.
She did acknowledge her depression and that she missed her counseling appointment last week. Probably missed it to spend time with me. You mentioned above I need to find out what makes her happy and get her there and I am not sure how to get her there by myself. We have had some discussions about that. I will help her get there if I can but I am not sure if she knows right now.
My response to this has been to continue to focus on my 180, being the best husband and father I can be, and enjoying the moment. I am trying to look at all of this as two steps forward one step back and I am not over reacting (I hope). As I mentioned above I have tempered all future expectations. If my wife leaves me I will know I have tried my hardest and it was not enough and I am comfortable with whatever happens. It has taken a lot of pressure off me. Some times I do feel like I am still walking on eggshells at times but they are few and farther between. If anything I am just looking for any opportunity to make her happy and to keep working on my 180's.
My 180's now feel permanent which also takes some stress off. I never realized how angry I was all the time and my wife was taking the brunt of it. Kind of feel reborn right now. About t month before the bomb I had a complete falling out with my parents. The short of it is my Dad wanted my business - because he is my father. Found out today that he has been going into our off-site storage. We are not sure but we can surmise that he has taken product. The old me would have stewed over this for days and been a sullen withdrawn jerk at home. Whatever. Life goes on and I refuse now to be angry over something like this. (He had signed the storage lease so legally he had access.) Not going to lie - it bothered me - but I did not get angry. And part of me was shocked at that but really I am overjoyed. No more anger! Feel so much better.
Any advice on my trip would be great. We did talk about spending as much time together as possible but I am concerned it might be to much. Not sure if I can get a decision from her on this. It is an important trip in regards to my business but it is insignificant in regards to my marriage. If it is up to me I will not go.
I do want to finish this novel by saying that I feel extremely fortunate right now. Not sure if it will all work out but I am just going to focus on myself. She is not going to fall in love with me overnight. Going to be a long road. I realized today that I was able to chance so quickly because I have always loved my wife and when I realized what I had to do to try and save this marriage I did it - as quickly as I could. My wife has fallen out of love with me. We are going through two different things. She will need a lot of time to sort this out. And more time to fall in love with me. I am just thankful for today.
Interesting couple of days. I went a checked a calendar to make sure my time line was right and it has been about eight weeks since my wife broached the subject of divorce and it has been 5 weeks since the ILYBIANILWY talk. About a month since I started DB.
The last week has been great. Spent a lot of time with my wife. We are renting and our lease is up in February and she started talking about buying a house. She got so excited when I told her to schedule a realtor for Friday she did not want to wait so she scheduled it for today. Last night she told me she was trying in regards to our relationship and still did not know what was going to happen. I felt I had no choice to tell her that until our marriage was solid it would be crazy to buy a house especially in the neighborhood we are in. It was the last thing I wanted to bring up but it would have been a financial disaster to buy an expensive house and then have to deal with it in a separation or divorce. We still spent the morning looking at houses and then we went to lunch.
At lunch we talked about how she is bored as a stay at home mom and she fills guilty about it. As the kids get older it is not fulfilling. This something we have talked a bit about over the last few weeks and it made sense and I understand her struggles there. Then she mentioned one of her best friends is going through some of the same things in her marriage (EA / unhappy) and I was shocked. Hate hearing it with this couple especially as it worries me that some of her friends are having the same issues.
The the bomb - and I think this is part of the healing process. I told her how much I have enjoyed spending time with her lately. She told me in regards to the house I was right and she can not make a decision right now about our relationship. She is really torn between staying and going. She acknowledged that I have changed but she does not understand how I could change so much so quickly. She wished she could change like that but she can not and she does not have feelings like she did before for me. That we have grown apart. She was worried that if we divorce the kids will hate her because it will be all her fault and she implied that she was upset because it seemed like I was now a "perfect husband" and yet she could still not be happy. When we talked about the house I told her we really had about 90 days to make a decision and she said that was to soon - she could not decide anything in 90 days and that really highlighted to me how far we have to go to make this marriage work. She also said that she did not feel that she could be intimate with me again physically. That the feelings were not there. She even broached the possibility of us staying together without being physically intimate. That was hard to hear and is not what I want and I hope that is just a manifestation of her current feelings and conflicts.
I am hoping that his is part of the process for her and us. It has only been about 4 weeks from my 180 so I think my hopes of just gotten up to much and that the healing process will take time. We really have so much fun together and enjoy each other so much I think I just got to excited. The good news for me is that for the old me this conversation would have sent me off the deep end in regards to negativity but I was able to stay positive which makes me believe that the 180 is really taking root.
The good news is that she still wants to spend time with me. She mentioned playing pool tonight at the end of lunch and we have plans for tomorrow already too. She has always wanted to paddle board and during lunch, after the other stuff was discussed, she joked that she can not wait to see me fall in the water and laugh. I think right now we are almost like best friends as we both really enjoy having fun together. Not want I want in the long term but all things considered not a bad place to be 8 weeks removed from a divorce talk. Just have to stay positive and stick to this. It is really hard to be objective though.
Sam,
Did your wife's refusal and rejection and complete shutdown of sex and intimacy have any effect on you?
Hi DaddyLongShanks,
I am ok with it right now but it is hard to deal with - I really want just intimacy right now. A hug here and there but I can not initiate anything. I walk down the street and would love to reach out and hold her hand. But it is a bridge to cross another day. To hear it though hurts. She has also made other comments about my physical appearance for the first time ever. But I am focusing on my 180's and if she falls back in love with me than it will work itself out. Not something I am worried about in the sort term.
Right now you have to stop thinking about YOUR needs. This time is all about her right now. It s@cks, but this is the way it is right now.
Have you spent your time fixing the things that she had issues with you for?
Hi Mr Bond!
Thanks for the advice. I am past the inequity of the situation. I was worried about her mental health and she confirmed that she feels like she is in a depression. This is my time to take care of her and if something bothers me I just move on and realize that this is just a moment in time and it will pass. I do feel very fortunate right now to have this opportunity.
In regards to fixing my wife has said quite a few times I am now a "perfect husband". It is not an act even though she is afraid it is. She also told me yesterday that I have made this so hard on her and she was angry about that. That if I had just continued being a jerk (paraphrasing) her decision would be easier. Clearly she is in conflict right now because of my changes. I do feel I have addressed everything behaviorally that I am aware of.
Wow Sam, you are a model of DB'ing! Fantastic update!! I'm glad to hear things are going so well, your efforts are really taking root. You're showing incredible poise and fortitude and doing a great job of rolling with the occasional punches your W throws. I was particularly impressed with this:
Quote:
She told me she does not know what she wants. I told her I understood her feelings and I understood why she might think my changes are not permanent and I really do understand. Not just saying it.
Excellent response! You validated her emotions without agreeing or disagreeing. Perfect.
Great to hear your 180's are no longer 180's but are just part of you now. I just mentioned the same thing in my thread about myself. It's a wonderful feeling, isn't it? Even though we may have started them to appease our W's, at some point we realize they're needed for US rather than them; and the benefits extend beyond W to the kids, friends, clients, coworkers, etc.
. We watched some shows together that my wife initiated. Still not a lot of physical contact and I can not do anything more that a light touch here and there. But that is fine. Happy to be where I am today and that is a big part of my 180.