WAW in the making, What can I do to prevent it?

[E-Chic]

Basic background:
Married 13 yrs
Together 15 yrs
No kids, no plans to have any
1 dog, 1 cat

For any spouse who was left behind - I could use your perspective. What could your walk-away-spouse have done to make you understand the gravity of the situation? Short of walking away, that is.

We've been in counseling 4 times. We're in counseling now with a person who is pretty good (better than probably any of the people we've seen before). The problem is that I have lost my ability to believe the marriage can work well.

I fit the profile of the WAW - except I haven't left yet. I feel like I'm caught in a no-win situation. If I don't say what I need, then I'm expecting him to be a mind reader and that is wrong. If I ask for what I want then I'm nagging & being demanding.

Sunday our counseling session did not go well - DH had been making progress in some areas but the last month has been just like before we started counseling again. I think it's possible that the things I need in a relationship are things that require herculean effort for him to provide ... so why keep trying to do this? It's like turning sand into water. Maybe we'd both be better off if we are each nice people who aren't compatible.

So we had a long talk Sunday morning (after the session). I explained that there are 2 things that I need in our marriage and it's just part of who I am to need these things.

1) Touch. I need to be touched outside of the bedroom. A few years ago I was at a work function at a pub that was crowded & since I work in a male dominated field, it was mostly men. A group of us were talking, and every time this one guy left the group he had to walk behind me and he'd put his hands on my back - sort of the non-verbal "don't step backwards." But it wasn't on my shoulders, it was more at my waist & his hands would linger a second longer than they needed to. After the 3rd time I thought, "Wow, he thinks I'm attractive." I miss that. I miss being touched just because my husband thinks touching me feels good or because he thinks I'm attractive. I crave getting to feel his hand on my arm, my waist, my hip. Right now he doesn't touch me unless its in the bedroom because he wants a once-a-week quickie (which we usually have). All week I'm a room-mate, except for when he wants sex.

2) Conversation. Every so often at work I have a conversation about a joint project with someone and I walk away thinking, "I wish I had that kind of conversation with H." It's a combination of having someone who wants to hear what I have to say, makes eye contact, responds to what I say ... it makes me feel SEEN. H prefers to watch TV when eating dinner & then stay there & veg out until bedtime.

So I explained these things to him, just like I typed them there. I made it clear that the coworker who put his hands on my waist - that's all that happened. I'm not trying to incite some fit of jealousy, and he understood that.

That afternoon we had to run an errand and on the walk back to the car he put his arm around me for a few steps. It was divine. But then he didn't touch me at all for the rest of the day. Even when he was watching TV & I curled up on the couch next to him to doze he kept his hands to himself. No hand on my shoulder, no hand on my hip or waist. Nothing.

A couple things to explain before I get hit with 101 reasons that I'm asking too much:
1) I work full time in a salaried job that has me working 50+hrs a week. He works FT as well, is hourly, so he doesn't usually work more than 45 hrs/week.

2) My job is lucrative. I'm not thinking I want a divorce because I'll get rich, if anything I'll have to pay spousal support to him.

3) We don't have kids b/c I couldn't have them, but he knew that early on when we started dating (I knew at age 20 I wouldn't be able to have kids & made that clear very early in every dating relationship because if someone desperately wanted to be a father, they shouldn't fall in love with me).

4) I haven't let myself go. If anything I weigh less than when we got married. I'm 5'7" & wear a size 10 or 12. Maybe I could be a size 8 or even a 6, but I'm not overweight enough that this should be an issue.

I don't want to leave - but I don't have a lot of hope that this will work out. I've asked him to touch me more often several times in the past. I've tried to touch him a LOT to sort of demonstrate the concept. I'm asking that when he walks by me in the kitchen, that it isn't the same as walking by a coworker in the break room.

So, please, for anyone who has a WAS - what would have gotten your attention? I feel that he thinks this is the same as the other times we've been in counseling - I'll give up & become complacent to accept what I've always accepted. How can I convince him that this time it really IS different ... without renting the 1 BR in-law apartment across town (that is within my budget and close to work).

[E-Chic]

So, are there any tips for helping a W not become a WAW?

If any LBS can drop a note saying, "If my H/W had said/done this, I would have realized I needed to be willing to change and we could have avoided all this hurt ..." that would be immensely helpful.

Thank you,
E-Chic

[Cadet]

For any spouse who was left behind - I could use your perspective. What could your walk-away-spouse have done to make you understand the gravity of the situation?

Welcome to the board.

Get the DR book and read it.

You can not FIX him or your relationship.
You can only FIX YOU.
Most LBS know the gravity of the situation

He will only change when the PAIN of changing is less than the PAIN of staying the same.

Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

[adinva]

Is there any fault on your side of the equation? Does your H feel completely happy and fulfilled in the marriage or has he asked you for anything he felt lacking? H's sometimes express nonverbally, as if you could mindread, and withholding touch and affection could be his expression of anger over missing something he can't even express. What has he said in counseling?

You asked what was it that finally made it clear that things needed to change. For me it was the bomb, I'm not in love with you, I want to separate. At that point for me, and probably for a lot of people, it was too late to repair. I would give anything for him to have made it clear he was thinking of walking away before he made up his mind. Since then I've done countless things to try to repair our problems but he is committed to divorce.

Over the years he communicated to me that he was unhappy but not in a way I was hearing - he was hypercritical, acted depressed, avoided me, or nitpicked. I wasn't hearing that because I thought he would never want a divorce. Also, I was mad at him too because of his behavior, and I would never want a divorce. I thought he felt the same as I did.

I think you sound like you've been really clear. The thing he might hear is a draft separation agreement and a plan to move out for six months or a year to see if with space you can resolve your problems and rebuild. Or - he might hear if you invite him to attend Retrouvaille, which has been highly recommended by people in this forum. Or - only you can answer. The thing is, whatever it is needs to be a sincere reflection of where you are at this point, NOT a tactic to get him to snap out of it. You have to be prepared to go through with it all the way to divorce, because you may end up there. I've heard a story of someone who did it as a tactic and wound up hurt that the husband went on his way.

You might start by thinking hard about whether you want to be married to him - what do you love about him and your life together. And then thinking hard about what you might need to change about yourself to create a better relationship. You can only change you, you can't change him.

Will be thinking of you.
Adinva

[adinva]

Also, The Five Love Languages sounds like it was written especially for you and your H. If he's willing to read it, and you too, it might generate helpful conversations.

[2thepoint]

E-Chic - You've certainly come to the right place. Welcome!


Adinva's advice about Retrouvaille is worthy of consideration. People that have attended have good things to say about it. Look it up on Google. The "5 Love Languages" is a great book and another you should take a look at is "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking about it."

From my perspective, and your question has been asked before, If my W had sat me down at a time where there could be no distractions and told me very specifically that we were "this close" to destroying our M and that we had to take action or it would end in D, I would have listened.

Unfortunately what happens more often than not, is the WAS just walks away and the LBS is stunned! Stunned and shocked and then they take action, often too late.

My W dropped the bomb, refused to go to MC and I've been playing catch up ever since. Because of this forum, the books I've read and the IC that I've been participating in, I've at least been able to slow things way down. We are not D and we get along better than ever but we are separated and not living as a husband/wife should live.

Like you, I crave touch. I need to feel attractive and loved. It is something my W for whatever reason is not comfortable with. It is probably not something she was raised with and so for her to change in this area would be a big adjustment for her.

Anyway, there are tons of folks here who will be happy to share their experiences with you and if you poke around you are bound to find threads that speak to you. Sandi2 is a good person to connect with. She was a former WAS who has very good insight into what you are feeling. Perhaps she will chime in. In the meantime I'm going to try to find a quote from her that so spoke to me that may be helpful to you as well. I'll be back by later or tomorrow.

Hang in there!

[AlwaysTrying]

Welcome E-chic

Like Advina, I would have given anything to know how much my wife was thinking about leaving. Instead, she was telling me she was upset but wasn't going to leave me... I thought we had time to work some stuff out.

With the language you're using, I wouldn't be surprised if you've already read 5 Love Languages. I think your H needs to read it. I strongly recommend you read Divorce Remedy as soon as possible. I strongly second that you read "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" as 2tp suggests.

I think it will shed some light on the ways you both are reinforcing a cycle that pushes you further apart. I'm willing to bet your husband has some pretty strong resentment that he will sit next to you and ignore you that way.

Perhaps when he sees you with a book titled "The Divorce Remedy" in your hands, he'll pay attention.

[AlwaysTrying]

Also, good luck. I deeply respect that you are trying to care for your marriage in the middle of this difficulty. Please find a way to stick with it.

One more thing - Michelle Weiner Davis also has a book for wives trying to reach oblivious husbands. I have to run out the door right now. Can someone else name that book?

[E-Chic]

"Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS."

Ouch. But thank you, it is probably what I needed to hear. Fortunately I have a biz trip coming up on Monday and will get some space. Of course, all business trips end, but in the meantime I'll have a little distance.

E-Chic

[E-Chic]

"Is there any fault on your side of the equation? Does your H feel completely happy and fulfilled in the marriage or has he asked you for anything he felt lacking? H's sometimes express nonverbally, as if you could mindread, and withholding touch and affection could be his expression of anger over missing something he can't even express. What has he said in counseling?"

I am SURE there is fault on my side of the equation, 1000% sure of it. He has said that I expect too much - usually referring to chores. One solution I had for that was to hire someone to clean the house every 2 weeks (just the 1st floor). Having someone else clean the bathroom, damp-mop the floor, vacc the carpet, etc has really helped because I don't worry about it any more & I don't ask for help with cleaning the house.

Some of the times we've had big arguments about things that made him angry were when he'd start a project but leave it unfinished and in a big mess for too long. Like if he was looking for something in the basement & pulled a lot of plastic totes off a shelf, opened them & took some of the contents out (to see if what he needed was in them) but didn't re-pack the totes & put them back on the shelf. That caused a big argument when I complained about it a few days later (the mess) because in his mind he was going to get to it, it was in the basement, and he was busy so it could wait.

So I know he sees me as impatient. And he's probably right about that. But mostly his complaints during counseling are that I want him to do too much around the house because my standards are too high about things like organization, not leaving dishes in the sink for too long, etc. We have different thresholds between messy & tidy - we draw that line in different places.

Also, I know in the past he wanted to go back to college to get a new degree but I said we couldn't afford him to be out of work for 4 years (he would have had to start over, it was a complete 180 from his existing degree and too long had lapsed between his old college credits and starting a new degree). He felt (understandably) that going part time would take an extremely long time and trying to balance work & school would be a recipe for failure. So he might be frustrated & angry from that. We compromised & he got a 2 yr degree, which let him work in a new field that he seems to enjoy. He had taken some night school courses so he was able to do the shorter program in just 2 semesters + summer school.

And I'm sure there are things that I'm not even aware of. I should see if we can figure those out in counseling - ASAP. Thank you for the advice!

E-Chic