Quote: I am confussed now. I started working on what I thought he wanted and now he says it's not really what he wants. Women's intuition tells me he is not being honest with me. Did you ever feel this way? It's like he just gave up.
jen,
since I am the woman with hd and my h is the ld partner, perhaps I can shed a little light on the sit.
do not use "womans intuition" when dealing with such topics...often what you think is just that...what YOU think.
there have been many occassions when h does want to be more physical and then I just am not as motivated.
yes some of it is anger and frustration just me saying well now you want to...I just don't feel like it.
but there is more to the story...it's more a learning to appreciate and accept. it's more of an understanding and hearing from the ld partner that they do care about our (the hd) feelings...that they do care..that they do find us attractive..that it's not "us".
if you can step back and see that it is not "sex" that we are seeking but affection, attention, affirmation of your feelings for us (after all the physical part of a m is the main thing that seperates that r from all others). for the hd person it is not so much that we are sex hungry maniacs but that we are those who's primary love language is physical touch...when we are deprived of that we are not hearing ily etc. when our attempts at physical contact are rejected we feel unloved...when we are met with a response that says...well I am not a "physical touch" love language speaker so you'll have to do without sex. we hear I don't love you. when we hear...I do love you and understand that physical touch (namely sexual) is important to you and I'm willing to make an effort in that area for you..we hear ily and may feel that because you have made the effort to speak our language we should then make the effort to speak yours and not look for sex as often.
there is also another little twist too...if the hd spouse feels that the ld spouse is simply participating in sex because of an obligation and not becuase they truly "want" to express themselves physically it takes away from the "feeling" it becomes just sex..an act being performed for your (the hd spouse) benifit wich can then lead the hd spouse to feel guilty and selfish for wanting or "needing" you to make that change for them. so then I suppose it more of what I said earlier.
hope that makes some sense, it really is a confusing issue for both the high and low desire partners.
I don't think she used the exact words, "anytime, anywhere", but she said, as closely to verbatum as possible, "I will not reject you again". While we haven't tried the bathroom vanity, kitchen floor or table since we were much younger, I think that she would give it a try :-) I am too old, and cars are too small these days to try the back seat. Besides, we like making love much better than a quickie interlude, although that can be fun too.
He is likely, as am I, still a bit apprehensive that you aren't really embracing his desire for you, or are just pretending in order to service him. LL said essentially the same thing. I bet once a week really isn't what he is interested in.
There is no way to know what will work for you and your husband. You certainly don't want to feel used or cheap. He obviously doesn't want to make you feel that way. The answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. Try initiating contact with him. Most guys love it when their lover initiates. Watch the timing though. Try to do it at a time when you know he would be interested.
Most importantly for me, is my wifes openness to my advances. If he grabs your butt, do you draw back or present? Grabbing your butt may initially be offensive to you. Likely, he does it out of affection. Rejection is often presented in ways that you might not even be conscious of. It will take him a while to get used to the change. It will take you a while to get used to being available.
In my relationship, we are still working on being secure with our newfound ease. I don't know what your early relationship was like, but mine was passionate and we experimented with places, times, and technique. All the things that new couples do. It was natural. The unnatural feel and discomfiture with making love and just having sex as a release was the learned behavior. It is no suprise that it will take time and effort to put it right again.
Jen said; ---- "I have increased the frequency but now he is telling me he is just not interested anymore and once a week is fine with him. (No enthusiasm). He says he learned to control his desire and is proving to me that he is not a neanderthal that only wants sex.
I am confussed now. I started working on what I thought he wanted and now he says it's not really what he wants. Women's intuition tells me he is not being honest with me. Did you ever feel this way? It's like he just gave up. " ----
He doesn't just want sex, but he does at times. Guys are as mixed up emotionally as you ladies, we just don't show it the same way. Throw in a liberal dose of testosterone, and life gets interesting. LL is one of the high drive ladies here, and has a good grasp on what it is like to be a guy (for most of us). What he probably really wants is you to want him the way you used to. That may only be a perception or a fantasy in his head of what it was like "in the early days", or maybe you two were like cats in heat. Either way, he wants to be closer to you. For a guy, that normally doesn't mean long talks by candle light.
I did feel the way he does. I had almost given up. At least I had convinced myself of that. As for him having control of his drives, horse crap. Most priests have a hard time with that. Maybe a small percentage of Tibetan monks do. I should think that would be a very small portion of the population with real control over their drives, and an even smaller percentage with control over their emotions.
If I had to guess, I would bet that a willing and ready wife, genuinely interested in his advances, would let him find what his real drive levels are. He sounds like he is still hurt and frustrated. I doubt he really knows exactly what he wants yet. Since you are the one championing the relationship repair, you may have to pull some extra weight until he is on board.
I really admire your addressing the issues with your husband, especially as the low desire spouse. I think your husband doesn't know how lucky he is to have you, or how lucky he is going to be - yet :-) I hope he will take an active role in returning your relationship to a more normal hue.
I am looking forward to the day when 'frequency' is what you tune the radio to, and not used to determine the health of the sexual part of a relationship. Happy couples do 'it' when THEY want to, not because 'it' is at issue. I want to be there. I wish that for every one that has been brave or frustrated enough to post here. I know we can't live in perfection, but couples have enough on their respective plates already. Making love shouldn't have to a battle.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Like I was telling Sooner this morning, the sexual revival must be a combination of the frequency and the passion, not necessarily intensity of lovemaking but the inbetween intercourse days should be sexual in a way. It’s hard to explain. Make a man realize how much you desire and respect him and he will melt at your feet. At least that’s how I’d work if my wife would be putting forth the effort that you are.
It is quite possible that the starvation went on too long for your husband and he truly has developed a lowered sexual metabolism, which in my opinion, is a dysfunction in itself. Now you are going to have to be willing to work harder to revive his passion and ardor. It is definitely doable. You have to be absolutely sincere and willing to stretch yourself beyond your comfort zone. Try initiating in ways and places that you couldn’t have imagined before. Push yourself. Rub him under the table in a restaurant, greet him at the door half naked after a shower with a sultry look in your eye, wake him up in the middle of the night with a bj...in other words, get a bit crazy, let go...use your incredible female powers.
I think the case is more likely that he is really hurt and ticked at living with Mrs. Freeze for so long. It may take some time but I can’t imagine any angry guy surviving the onslaught of his horny wife on the warpath. Take some aphrodisiacs yourself (try Damiana and Muira Puama, niacin and zinc are good too) and study the feelings of longing and ache that he probably experienced before. That should also help you understand his despair and the subsequent sexual rejection that seems to be happening now. How ironic that the thing he wanted most was no longer needed by the time he got it. I could see that happening with me. If only my wife were as aware as you are, her spark would hit my gasoline and the resulting passionate explosion would destroy all doubt. Be sincerely sexy, he won’t resist.
I am gaining strength from the knowledge that maybe there is something I can do by not trying to be so proactive. I’m sure the book will help with a few ideas.
How did you actually get your wife to respond with such vigor or at least willingness to get down and boogie whenever you wanted? I’ve probably missed some of your posts regarding the real process. If my wife came to me and said she was ready to put our sex life on high priority status I’d cry with joy, do a jig and carry her anywhere she wanted to go. Hell, I’d even take up tango lessons and take a shower now and then (just kidding)
Seriously, I really appreciate your feedback. I am trying not to get so angry about it.
Jen, I think maybe it could be an issue of trust. He may have felt that you withheld sex over the years to manipulate him and now you are "wanting" sex (or pretending to want it) in some kind of other attempt at manipulation. I think being available for him without being "too available" for him could be the key. Will he talk about it at all? Trust yourself and him that you will eventually find the right balance.
The most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.
QUOTE FROM NOPKINS: "Sexual frequency is not so much of an issue now. There is one simple reason. Willingness. That's it. Rotten days, flu, oral surgery (insert how your day goes bad here) all tend to dampen spirits on occasion, but if your spouse loves you, and is willing, then the formerly sex starved partner can say 'that's alright, we can wait until tomorrow', and mean it."
Nopkins, my boy, you have struck gold with those words. I wouldn't need sex everyday if I knew that I could get it if I wanted. Now that I'm not getting more than once a month I need it at least every day. Folks, that is the key to your starving spouse's need. Now, how do we get all those low-libbers out there to realize this?
Thanks for all the great feedback, you have all given me things to think about.
H and I had a long talk on Sunday, we spent the afternoon at the beach and we talked at length about sex. He stood firm on his point of veiw that he is "just not that interested anymore". But he did say "who knows, maybe I'll feel different tomorrow".
Yes, I do think that he has been living in pain and rejection for so long that a shift in my attitude is throwing him for a loop. I guess it will take time.
One thing we discovered on Sunday was that niether of us likes the way each other kisses. Not the bedroom kind, the quick ones, going the store, see you later kind. We got to talking about it and then showing each other what we liked and how we liked it. We laughed a lot. We have been practicing for the last 2 days now and I have had more butterflies in my stomach (the good ones) than in the last 5 years. We talked a lot about touching too and have been working on that as well. Sunday night was a hit!
You all gave me so much information I really want to take the time and re read your posts to fully get the messages.
I think we all, in a strange way, feel a boost to see other Starvers getting fed. It gives hope to all of us still in the trenches and behind barbed wire. Just being able to talk about it with your hubby is light years ahead of many frustrated relationships. I got turned on just thinking about practicing kissing with my honey!
Quote: One thing we discovered on Sunday was that niether of us likes the way each other kisses
Jen, I am so glad you posted about this! Just one of those things where the planets are in line I guess. I've been thinking about this very thing and have been struggling with how to go about brooching the subject with my h. In my case it actually is the more intimate kissing. I really want to enjoy his kisses and even more so when Sooner posts about how intimate it is. But I don't like the way he kisses (my h, not Sooner)! I've always hesitated to mention it for fear of hurting his feelings. I think I'll go for the lighthearted, fun approach you're using. It's worked well for us in the past on other things. It just didn't occur to me to use it in this situation for some reason. THANKS!!
I'm betting your h's interest is going to be returning. Don't stress about it. Just give him the space and time he needs to work through this at his own pace. If my h had said something like your h, I'd have probably just said, "Okay, I'll probably try to get you interested more than once a week if you won't bother you. But if you want to turn me down, that'll be fine. We can just try again another time."
Thanks again for the kissing post. I'm looking forward to some practicing!
AchingMan said; ------ "How did you actually get your wife to respond with such vigor or at least willingness to get down and boogie whenever you wanted? I’ve probably missed some of your posts regarding the real process. If my wife came to me and said she was ready to put our sex life on high priority status I’d cry with joy, do a jig and carry her anywhere she wanted to go. Hell, I’d even take up tango lessons and take a shower now and then (just kidding)" ------
Actually, she had already made her mind up to be available shortly after reading Michele's book. It took me a little while to realize she was serious. In confronting her after I got a mad on, and after she had already told me she was willing, I found out a few things about myself. It wasn't fun, but it was necessary.
You might want to have a read of Corri's thread.
As I mentioned before, if you want to see real change in your spouse, you might want to have a good look at yourself. If you are really brave, ask your wife what you have done in the past that has seriously hurt her feelings. Warning, you might not like what you hear.
A relationship is not one-sided. While it may be true that she has a lower drive than you, you might be suprised at what you have done to supress what drive she does have.
I am NOT saying it is all your fault. It is also not all her fault. It IS an issue for both of you to work through. When I started reading Michele's book, I loved the first chapter. Here was proof that I was right, and she needed to change. All the while, I knew that at some point in the book, my part of the responsibility was bound to be taken issue. I really liked the part of the book that told her what to do. The chapters addressing me, weren't as much fun.
I am sure that there are relationships out there where one spouse does everything right, and the other fails at everything. I would suspect that those are also quite rare. Most relationships are a constant mix of miscommunication.
Vigilance, and sometimes, long-suffering, is what makes a marriage last.
I will pose two questions to you, neither are meant to offend, rather to provoke thought.
Have you done your 'homework' with your wife? Is your definition of 'homework' the same as hers?
Hang in there, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Just one of those things where the planets are in line I guess. I've been thinking about this very thing and have been struggling with how to go about brooching the subject with my h. In my case it actually is the more intimate kissing. I really want to enjoy his kisses and even more so when Sooner posts about how intimate it is. But I don't like the way he kisses (my h, not Sooner)! I've always hesitated to mention it for fear of hurting his feelings. I think I'll go for the lighthearted, fun approach you're using. It's worked well for us in the past on other things. It just didn't occur to me to use it in this situation for some reason. THANKS!!