Each Step is a First Step

[Quorumof1]

Where to begin?

I've been lurking on these forums reading for a few weeks now absorbing the wisdom of all who spend time here.

I've seen the number of postings on the 37 rules and have now picked up the DR book and am beginning to read. Why? Here's my sitch:

I've been with my wife almost 20 years, and we've been married for over 16 of those years. We've had ups and downs at times but the past couple of years has seen us get further and further apart. I'm 48 and she is 49, turning 50 this summer. We have no kids.

I started IC with a couple of sessions last spring as she thought I needed to figure myself out, since she had herself all figured out already. After the initial sessions, the counsellor wanted to see both of us as he saw that to me the relationship was part of my "problem". She came to one session in order to "help" me towards my journey to getting myself figure out. Needless to say that didn't do much.

Last Fall, on the recommendation of a friend I started seeing a new C who I quite like and he has helped me with some of my issues. He has let me see I can take ownership of just half of our R issues but it takes two. Even if I did everything wrong, it would still only be half my fault. He's let me see that our marriage has really already died as it once existed, but that doesn't mean we couldn't rebuild a new one.

However, my W no longer has any interest in our relationship, has expressed things like she never felt like a partner, etc. much of what has been written here by others.

A few times in the past year out of frustration I've asked her if she wanted me to leave but she always said no. We havent sat together or been close in a long time. Over the past year or so I have heard "hon" less and less and she had taken to calling me by my name only, likely as a distancing measure. It all came to a head after my birthday in Feb where she gave me a card that was signed from her and the dog I couldn't have felt less cared about. So a week or so later I asked if she thought we should separate. Her response was yes as she has no feelings for me anymore. As I write this I know that that part of our life is done. I can't say I disagree with her.

Where I struggle is that later that day I am already getting an email from a mutual friend saying how sorry they were that we were splitting up but maybe we could both find peace now as we had each been unhappy for some time. My wife wasted no time.

She has also started inquiries with the bank to figure out how she can buy me out of my share of our home. We both have good paying careers so that is not an issue.

Anyway, I have found a furnished apartment for three months starting April 1st. I want to slow this process down as I was not happy where we were but that doesn't mean I did t want us to work towards building a new life together.

I am beginning to wonder if it was a mistake agreeing to move out. Alternatively, I don't see how me staying in the house was going to help me detach while she figures out that she has a part in all this.

I know that all I can do is work on me and I am trying to do that by continuing to see the C, getting involved in sports again and I've even started attending a meditation class (not doing a great job on regular attendance to that one due to my job and the class' early start time).

I think I've rambled enough for this first post. I will try to add more info later. I understand this takes some time as new members are moderated In the beginning, so I will learn as I go.

Q1

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board.

So you moved out, yes that might have been a mistake but all you can do is pick yourself up dust yourself off and get on living your life.

You have read the 37 rules, so stop begging pleading and pursuing.

She is asking for SPACE, give it to her.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You may be on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Stick to one thread until you get to 100 posts.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

[Starsky309]

Q1,

I'm sorry you're going thru this, and sorry it's taking days for your posts to show up. Frustrating, when you're struggling, I'm sure.

If you have no kids involved, you may be in a better -- or at least "cleaner" -- situation than most, in that you don't have to worry about how they may be affected by all of this. Just need to do what YOU want to do, and think would make you happiest.

Personally, I would NOT have advised you to move out of your home. If she's the one wanting out of the marriage, it would be more appropriate for her to find the new place.

I gotta say, this really jumped out at me, right from the outset:

I started IC with a couple of sessions last spring as she thought I needed to figure myself out, since she had herself all figured out already.

I found it odd that it would be your wife's place to recommend an individual counselor for YOU? My guess is that, over the years, you may have let "Quorum" get swallowed up more and more into the marriage, and become more "Mr. Wife-of-Quorum," and lost sight of a lot of your own goals and dreams, and -- ironically -- maybe what made you attractive to your wife to begin with?

This dynamic is more typical of a left-behind wife than a left-behind husband, but it does apply to men as well. I'm guessing you may have some co-dependency issues (I did .. and do!!); did your IC mention anything about that to you?

Keep posting frequently, in shorter posts -- it'll help get you off the "full moderation" thing.


Starsky

[Quorumof1]

Welcome to the board.

So you moved out, yes that might have been a mistake but all you can do is pick yourself up dust yourself off and get on living your life.

You have read the 37 rules, so stop begging pleading and pursuing.

She is asking for SPACE, give it to her.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You may be on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Stick to one thread until you get to 100 posts.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Thanks Cadet!

I was almost certain you would give a post and I was ready for it.

Been doing pretty much everything according to the 37 rules and have backed off on all pursuit stuff. For the moment I'm actually in a reasonable headspace. I have no doubts there will be ups and downs.

Next weekend move out will probably be difficult. Possibly a mistake moving out but I'm not certain as it will take some time to figure out what she wants. All I can do right now is me.

Cheers,

Q1

[Quorumof1]

Thanks for the response Starsky.

I'm in an odd headspace right now, as I am enjoying doing some of the things I like to do and it is a bit strange not to have to let anyone know what I'm up to or "checking in" to keep in touch. Also, we both have been unhappy for a while and perhaps that changes the dynamic a little bit. It isn't like one of us got blindsided.

I think I am more frustrated that she wasn't/isn't willing to participate in trying to see if we can each learn to be better partners. My IC is helping me identify my issues and has stated that if she isn't prepared to see that she has a part in it as well, then it will be difficult to reconcile. Time will tell.

I would guess the no kids situation may change things up a bit as well. As you state, it is cleaner. For example, if it all goes completely sideways and we can't recover, then there will be no future reason to connect at all.

We have one aging dog, 15 yrs old, that we both love, but it is definitely more her dog. That is why she will stay with the house, it is what the dog knows.

We both have successful careers, so either of us could carry the cost of the house on our own, but the buying out of equity will cripple the buyer (but then that is my opinion and I've always been more fiscally conservative than her). Yes, I'm sure finances were one of our hot buttons.

Personally, I would NOT have advised you to move out of your home. If she's the one wanting out of the marriage, it would be more appropriate for her to find the new place.

Yeah, so far, this is probably the biggest mistake I've made. In the past few months before the agreement, I was pursuing, etc, but since the "agreement" to separate, I've backed right off. We now pretty much live like the roommates we seemed to pretend to be before the agreement. I've been of two minds on the point. If I stayed, we would just continue in the cycle we've been in for months so I don't know if that would have helped more than it hurt. Moving out for three months to a furnished place means leaving most of my stuff here (other than clothes, etc) leaves a connection to my "home" for now. I think it may be a need for me to just do the distance and detach and do my own thing and let her be in her thoughts.

Right now, it is black and white to her. We were never partners. She has no feelings for me. etc etc. I know that is the situation talking and only time can let her find perspective.

I gotta say, this really jumped out at me, right from the outset:

I started IC with a couple of sessions last spring as she thought I needed to figure myself out, since she had herself all figured out already.

I found it odd that it would be your wife's place to recommend an individual counselor for YOU? My guess is that, over the years, you may have let "Quorum" get swallowed up more and more into the marriage, and become more "Mr. Wife-of-Quorum," and lost sight of a lot of your own goals and dreams, and -- ironically -- maybe what made you attractive to your wife to begin with?

An interesting point and to be obtuse, it is in some ways very accurate and others completely off the mark. I'm an extremely private person, sometimes I don't even tell myself. Ok, that is a lame attempt at humour. More accurately, I am still trying to figure me out and what it is that makes me happy, etc. I understand now through the IC that this will have made our marriage difficult. How hard would it be to love someone who doesn't know himself? I totally get that I contributed to the mess we are in. What my IC wants me to keep in focus (though not the centre of attention) is that she has issues as well and needs to face them if we are going to ever have a chance.

You also mentioned the co-dependency issue and I think I did/do have that as part of the problem. I did/do place a lot of my self-image as deriving from our relationship. I'm working on that and so in that respect I think I may have lost a bit of my direction/personality.

Keep posting frequently, in shorter posts -- it'll help get you off the "full moderation" thing.

Whoops, fail.

Starsky, want to say thank you for your thoughts. In my better moments right now, I recognize that I am not ready to give up. However, I am not prepared to go back to what we had either. That relationship has really died and the question is whether we can have a new one.

I don't love who she is right now anymore than I know she has no feelings for me right now. But I do think we are two people who have the opportunity to take a new path together if we choose to. For now I will follow mine and hope it meets hers down the way.

Q1

[labug]

I think you're off moderation so post away...

[Quorumof1]

I think you're off moderation so post away...

I noticed, am surprised but pleased.

This is a great community. And it is cathartic to read and post.

Cheers LA

Q1

[Quorumof1]

Hey all,

Another thing comes to mind that I may have mentioned earlier but probably didn't put in details.

I was in a bad headspace when we first agreed to separate, and made comments about selling the house, dividing up assets, setting a date to determine things by, etc. Yes, I recognize that I have control issues at times.

A couple of weeks later she emailed and asked why we couldn't buy each other out of the house. I said because I didn't think either of us could afford it, not that we couldn't. Her response was that the bank said that she could afford it. My reply was I didn't want to do anything by an emotional decision and that she could stay here, with me contributing for the interim a smaller component of house expenses since I'd have other costs for my own place and left it at that. Maybe that was avoidance but I also didn't want to agree to something I'd regret later. She has fully explored the means of buying me out though as to how the process would work but I think that is it.

I have no indication that she has gone to a L yet. And the D word has never been stated by either of us, only that we should separate. At this point, I don't want to read anything into that, however, who knows.

The downside of things is that her sister left her husband a couple of years ago and is now newly married and our neighbours that we hang with at times have just split up a month ago and they've been married a similar length of time. I read somewhere here the theory that people see those around them splitting and they are more likely to critically analyze their own marriage as well and decide it is better to get out.

That's it for now, just spewing some thoughts.

Thanks for reading.

Q1

[Starsky309]

I think you're off moderation so post away...

I noticed, am surprised but pleased.

This is a great community. And it is cathartic to read and post.

Cheers LA

Q1

Oh, sure. NOW you do a short one.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

Next weekend move out will probably be difficult. Possibly a mistake moving out but I'm not certain as it will take some time to figure out what she wants. All I can do right now is me.

Hmmmm. Methinks thou doth contradicteth thyself there.


Q1, I will give you one of the very best pieces of advice I got in DBing:

When faced with a situation, don't look at it from a standpoint of "How will my wife react if I say/do this? Will she be angry? How will her reaction make ME feel?"

Instead, learn to operatate from a standpoint of: in every given situation, ask yourself "What is THE RIGHT THING TO DO in this situation? What is the thing that God Himself would have me do, if He were standing right in front of me?"

And then let the chips fall where they may.

Staying in your own home was "The Right Thing To Do," irrespective of how your wife reacts to it. Is it too late to change your mind, because of the rental contract?


Starsky