Thanks for the "tough love". Again, I just want to mention that these are all things that I've just thought of doing and I haven't actually done any of these nor does she have any idea that I've considered them. The fact is that each week she tells me that we will meet to exchange keys and then something comes up and I just stay silent as I don't want to pursue.
I was going to tell her that I understand my role in this as you suggested, but the fact is that I haven't seen her in 2 1/2 months as she avoids me (you can say rightfully so based on my previous actions/words) but that's where I am because I have brought it on myself. I did send her that short note that you suggested.
I do need to work on me, and I'm sure you're right that I think this is unfair and it is leading to some of my ideas listed above.
Spoke with her briefly and she said that she would drop off the keys this week and we could talk shortly then. If she is able to follow through with it, then I will bring this up in a very understanding manner and hopefully show her that I do understand my role in this.
Based on your comments, I won't expose anyone. I will say that I have read elsewhere that breaking up the fantasy of a secret A is critical to stopping it, even in a kind way, so was just throwing that out there as something that could shake up reality for both of them.
I will work on me and try to detach myself from this situation more as I'll need it going forward. Don't think W will get a chance to notice, but better late than never!
What do you wish to accomplish? If you alert OM's family of his behavior, what do you see them doing? I have a feeling this isn't his first rodeo.
If you go behind an email (and that's what you'd be doing)to the OM, and you tell him you know of his inappropriate behavior and threaten to "expose" him to HR or family, exactly what do you see him doing? This is just my opinion, but somehow I don't see a man getting to upset at a jilted H who sends an email or even a call.
So what if you tell HR? Do you expect them to fire OM, suspend with pay/without pay, ship to another location? They hardly can prevent people from being lovers, if that is what the people want to do. Unless it is written in his contact...or sexual conduct on the business' property can be proven, I don't know that many businesses in today's world that will do anything toward the wayward parties. I just think you need to know what it is you expect from this, before you make that move.
And, there's one more thing. You are directing this as if OM would be the only one affected. I doubt that would be the case. If it were investagated (or not), I'm sure your W would know.
There have been posters who have exposed, some say they were successful, but most were not.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
in other words, If I am interpreting Bond correctly, we're saying IF IF IF you must bring it up then the only reason is to show change and the possibility of a recon (b/c you won't hang it over her)
but in general I see no reason to bring it up at all. How does it help her think you have changed?
I mean it's more like you want her to know you know b/c......of ego reasons.
That's just more of the same old...
if you TRULY feel sorry for your role and how your anger and losing your temper at her - hurt her AND that you are changing...
then why not just tell her THAT??
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Regarding my earlier post where I mentioned that DB doesn't work well in cases where there is an OM, I think I may have read that in the past from other users because spouse is in a deeper fog than most.
Regardless of the magnitude, I should realize that it is the most effective course of action, no matter the situation.
This may be a no-brainer, but it is something that has been on my mind in my situation: Is there ever a situation where bringing up an OM in a calm manner (when likely not expected to be received this way by W) actually helps the communication and helps all parties feel more relieved if handled properly? In our situation, as I have in the past alluded to knowing about "someone else", I created a dynamic where she doesn't know how much I know and I think fears talking to me and in her mind it is best to move forward without anymore information being divulged that could jeopardize both Rs (understand that she doesn't want a MR with me, but I think bringing this into the open is a frightening proposition). She has said in the past she wants to remain friends and we have a large network of friends who know both of us quite well, and she might think I would tell them about it, which I wouldn't.
I created this situation with my wanting to be right and punitive actions in the past, so I whole-heartedly take responsibility for why she might think this, but, perhaps out of fear, I have a feeling that she feels there is no other alternative at this point than ending the M. I think she feels that if she did share even part of the truth, I would flip out (which, in the past, I probably would have done), but I am in a different place now, and wondering if drawing the truth out in a calm, non-judgmental manner may cause her to re-think whether it could be possible to reconsider a R with me as this could almost be a weight off of her?
Currently, our communication is pretty limited and she is very anxious when I speak with her (very much feels uncomfortable), even more so than when she dropped the bomb.
Again, this is completely exclusive of the work that I am doing on my own to get rid of the qualities that led her to why she ever felt like she needed to find attachment somewhere else.
Just seems like an 800 lb. elephant in the room that needs to be addressed at some point (not for me to feel better or to feed my ego, but truly an opportunity to show change that I can own up to my actions and that I no longer will show anger towards her for actions which I have had a role in).
If you take your W out of the equation (which essentially - she has done already on her own by moving out and proposing D)
What will YOU gain by releasing the elephant, so to speak?
I mean, really and truly. Think about once it's done and said. Once the discussion happens (either an angry convo or not - it really doesn't matter).
What happens to BL's state of mind after? What happens to his ego? After you scratch that "ha-HA, I KNEW IT!!. See, you'll NEVER get one over me!" itch, will you feel better or worse?
Well, you didn't answer my questions, so I'll try to answer yours.
Quote:
This may be a no-brainer, but it is something that has been on my mind in my situation: Is there ever a situation where bringing up an OM in a calm manner (when likely not expected to be received this way by W) actually helps the communication and helps all parties feel more relieved if handled properly?
In case you missed reading this in most all the LBH's threads, they all wanted to talk to the OM or do something to cause the WAW admit her A, and especially wanted her to know that he knows what she's done. They all believed 100% that discussing the problem calmly would make everyone feel better. The truth is that it's just the LBH who wants to feel better, and doesn't want to follow the advice given here.
So after this calm discussion, then what?
Oh yes, there have been others exactly like you! I have seen the LBH discuss the A with his WAW. Yes, the communication opened alright......it opened for her to tell him how she felt toward OM, how hard it was to try to live without him, and day in - day out the LBH had to listen to her whine and cry over the OM. I haven't seen success from doing this type of "better communication" but if you think you'd feel better hearing your W talk about him.....then have at it.
You talk about wanting honesty, but the truth is that you want your W to know what you know about the A. That's why you feel the urge to have the talk. But you aren't seeing what's beyond her surprised face after you tell her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi - Sorry for not answering your questions. Definitely thought they were more rhetorical and points to think about, which I think I knew the answers to once you laid them out in that way.
Quick update on my situation. Sent W an e-mail yesterday basically saying that I accept our situation and even though I will miss her and don't agree that this is the best solution, I have come to terms with it. I mentioned that we still need to exchange the safe deposit keys as well and that hopefully we could do that soon.
She called me back and thanked me for my e-mail and said it was very nice. Then discussed if I've talked with my L and asked me when I was planning on doing so to finalize this. To me, it didn't seem like there was any second guessing (not that I was expecting it, but hey, one can always be hopeful).
We discussed meeting up on Monday night at 6pm and said that we could talk. We couldn't figure out where, so I proposed that we go to the gym together (random, I know...but I go to a pretty nice gym a few blocks away from where we both live). We've met up to talk in coffee shops before, but thought it was too sterile of an environment and raises anxiety levels, so said it'd be good just to do something active where we didn't have to stare at each other and talk. She said, "yeah, I understand...I'm not sure I want to do gym idea, but I'll think about it and let you know, but I'm definitely up for 6 on Monday".
Note: This wasn't intended to be a date or anything, but I didn't want to talk over dinner or sit in a coffee shop, so proposed something off the wall which we both like to do anyway (work out).
So, long story short, we're meeting at 6 on Monday. The talk is intended to just catch up on what's going on in our lives and discuss path forward on the D.
Overall, it was a very amicable conversation...she even sounded emotional at one point as if this was something she needed to do as if there was no other choice. She said "I can't be in limbo anymore". I didn't say it, but in my mind, I was thinking "well, there are two ways to get out of limbo, and I feel like you are only thinking about one way".
In any case, I'm going to spend some time this weekend thinking about what i'm going to say. Since I haven't really used my opportunities in the past to show my changes, I think this might be one of my few shots before this thing is said and done. I haven't seen her in 2 1/2 months either, so it will be nice to see her, and I'm sure she may feel some anxiety about this meeting as well.
Thanks for all your comments and any other suggestions would be helpful as well. You all have saved me from making any additional damaging moves (such as contacting OM, family, etc.).
Just updating my situation - thank you for all your help (and tough love) to date.
As I mentioned previously, W and I do not have kids so there is typically no reason to meet as our Ls handle all of the administrative matters. She lives a few blocks away in an apt. as she moved out of our condo in August 2011.
I haven't seen her in 2 1/2 months and we are meeting tonight over coffee (apparently decided she didn't want to go to the gym with me). It is strange how nervous I feel to see her. We were together for 10 years prior to the bomb, and this is by far the longest we've ever been apart. My thought is that she also has some level of anxiety over this meeting. It is just to exchange safe deposit keys and talk for a little bit on catching up and about moving forward, but based on our conversation on Friday, I do honestly think there is at least 1% of her which may not know if this is the best idea. She is not mean, and not overly nice...just cordial.
I know one of the DB principles is not to use friends or family to help, but I did have lunch with one of my close guy friends last week (who my W really respects and likes), and told him that my W filed. Quick background on a previous thread: my W hasn't talked to or seen any of our common friends since last May and even skipped two of our mutual friends' weddings. My thought was that she was just trying to leave her old life behind as she was hanging out with all new friends from grad school and her old HS friends. Apparently, my friend was really concerned and his W (who was also a mutual friend with my W), reached out to see if my W would be interested in grabbing dinner to catch up. I know that they both want us to pull through. I found out today from my friend that they are having dinner tomorrow night. My W didn't mention this to me, and I don't plan on bringing it up tonight.
I am by no means hopeful and expecting the worst still, but I do find it a positive sign that my W is agreeing to have dinner with W of one of our close couple friends since she has basically ignored all of our mutual friends since she dropped the bomb.
In any case, when I meet W tonight, I'm going to do my best job of DB'ing yet. No judgments, anger, punitive words, nothing. Just listening and validating. It is really one of my few chances left to show a 180, so I really need to use this opportunity well.
