I cannot grasp how reconciling with me would be harder/more painful than living without our children.
It just goes to show that I still haven't understood what the problem is, I suppose.
Something that helps me deal with it a little is the idea that my H feels 'stuck' in our relationship. The only thing he can think to do is to run away in order to overcome this crushing feeling. It's as if he feels he has no choice if he is to survive...
And yes, I share your hope about having a better relationship with our spouses in the future. Our kids will surely be a big part of it.
I cannot grasp how reconciling with me would be harder/more painful than living without our children.
It just goes to show that I still haven't understood what the problem is, I suppose.
But you have different situations NLW, albeit with some basics in common. In your situation NLW, if I recall correctly, your h has serious issues that have little to do with you.
With Crimson, it's a mix of things he is owning now and his wifes stuff. She has her work to do. But if I understand your question Crimson, is that you are troubled b/c you feel you NOW "GET IT" about what your role was
and you are not sure your wife knows that you get it.
Therefore, how can she know that you would have a better/different marriage than before?
That's always the question and Challenge, along with making sure you demonstrate that marriage to you now, & from this day forward would be better/different.
Those replies I suggested to you (per my DB coach years ago) will help when she brings up the past. She WILL do that if she pushes the divorce ahead...and you will be able to show that change.
Something that helps me deal with it a little is the idea that my H feels 'stuck' in our relationship. The only thing he can think to do is to run away in order to overcome this crushing feeling. It's as if he feels he has no choice if he is to survive... Most WAS's feel they are doing a self preservation act, if they leave a marriage in which the LBSer wants to work on things. MOST don't make the choice lightly and that is especially true with WASs who leave and have no OPs in their lives. What "cures"that? IF they are to be healed, they'll need to do THEIR work and they will do at least some b/c they want peace inside too. But as for what gets them to think things would be better in the marriage-- only time + consistent change on your end, will change their belief
so they accept that you are different and therefore the m could be good again.
Patience and consistency on your end (your work) is what you have control over, nothing else. Accept that.
In my case, I changed a great deal. I needed to let go of my anger b/c it was hurting MY LIFE and consuming me, and not doing a dang thing for my r with h.
Our interactions re finances and the kids also changed a lot. Money had been a source of conflict we did not do well with before, but I helped change that dynamic.
I can give one small example of a huge 180 I did. I now think it was the beginning of us finding our way back...
H had left for his fellowship (which I was very hurt by and thought was a direct slap in the face/threat to our m). Unbeknownst to me, he had stopped paying the bills, which he had done for over 20 years.
One day shortly after he left, our electricity was being cut off, which I told him. (But right before we spoke, I had a DB coach session, thank God.)
H's first response was an unusually selfish one (like if his credit was hurt) but I let that slide (180#1 for me)
and then I said something about how I did not know I needed to pay that bill & that it was upsetting to have a power guy come to disconnect.
He angrily retorted "Now you know what it's like b/c I've paid the bills for 20 years!"
I took a breath & I said, "and I want to thank you for that, b/c I know how stressful it is now." (180#2 for me and a big one) A long pause followed, like maybe 10 full seconds, and then h said "you're welcome." We got off the phone and I'm positive he was shocked by that interaction.
More months passed, like a good year...and I detached...at first with grief but then I decided to be happy no matter what. I really did. I saw my aunt do it after a long marriage ended with her h's death. She grieved and grieved but finally picked herself up and dusted herself off and moved forward, joining groups and working at a new job. She has a nice new younger boyfriend and is very happy now. She's 70! And she is my role model.
Only when I detached and began believing my m was over and that I was going to be alright anyhow, (which took TIME) did my h begin to show an awakening. It's a paradox, I know.
But he had time to reflect on his own, and let good times resurface in his recall. He didnt see himself as such a victim but I don't know how he dealt with his guilt then. (Later in Retrovaille I learned about it but that was years later). Back then he'd reach out to the kids and me and got a better reception than he expected, perhaps.
But I let him know what he was missing. There was no cake eating b/c he was losing out, not me...
And yes, I share your hope about having a better relationship with our spouses in the future. Our kids will surely be a big part of it.
NLW
kids are the bond you have. Knowing another person cares as much about your kids as you do, DOES bond you. Embrace that.
Don't assume they don't care. In fact, try hard to assume the best of your spouse, without having expectations.
Hard to explain- but it sure helps to Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25, what responses were you referring to? I might have missed them....... Also, you hit the nail on the head regarding my concerns. I have no idea how to show her I see her perspective now.
Interesting 180 ( kinda like yours) from our text exchange last night. She asked me if I was getting video of our son. I said of course because now I take my camera every with me when he is with me. She replied "good, you used to dread when I would take pictures all the time". Instead of letting that blow by or worse, being snarky I simply said "well, now I don't want to miss any of his life. I see why you were always taking pictures.". No real response to that, but I hope it hit home.
Got an unsolicited blackberry picture of the baby trying to eat with chopsticks tonight. I replied with a heart and a smiley. It sure doesn't mean that we are "all good" but it least it is a nice gesture considering she knows how much I miss him.
Thanks NLW and 25. 25, what responses were you referring to? I might have missed them....... Also, you hit the nail on the head regarding my concerns. I have no idea how to show her I see her perspective now.
I THINK I posted the possible replies to you. These are the "standard replies" of the LBSer when the WAS revises the marital history to justify leaving the m. Sorry if I posted this elsewhere ,but I thought it was you...ANYHOW here they are.
If the marital history is SO revised that you don't recognize it, like you think it did not happen at all or at all like THEY SAY, you don't call them a liar (thank God for this advice b/c I almost did call my h a liar for one of his revisions but damn if he wasn't right. The KIDS remembered it more his way and I am glad I gave the DB reply instead of challenging h...) So the answer to a revision of hers, of an event that you REALLY don't agree with, is: "Wow w, I sure don't recall it that way, but I'm sorry if you were hurt/upset by it"...
The answer to a historical revision that you DO agree with, and OR perhaps you feel bad about a mistake of yours, or a behavior you want to change, is: "W, Yes and if I had it to do over again, there are a LOT of things I'd do differently..."
Neither answer escalates or argues. Both answers show possible change, especially the latter one. Neither answer is a doormat answer either.
These replies ^^ became my mantras in difficult discussions. When h would press me for an answer and I felt angry, or reluctant to say how I really felt (b/c contrary to what some men think, I am GLAD MY H CANNOT READ MY MIND...)
I would say "I hear you, and I get what you are saying, but I need some time to ponder all this before I can answer so I don't give you an answer I'm not sure of..."
Interesting 180 ( kinda like yours) from our text exchange last night. She asked me if I was getting video of our son. I said of course because now I take my camera every with me when he is with me. She replied "good, you used to dread when I would take pictures all the time". Instead of letting that blow by or worse, being snarky I simply said "well, now I don't want to miss any of his life. I see why you were always taking pictures.". No real response to that, but I hope it hit home. no response IS a response. You did well. That's the type of interaction that shows change.
Do NOT attach expectation to her "response" yet b/c she's not sure what to make of this new stuff you are doing. That's ok!
You are not being predictable, and you are not being defensive. YAY!!! Her noticing that is enough for now. And she is noticing, trust me.
I also doubt her original comment about the camera was meant as a shot, so much as an observation of mild surprise on her end. That's alright too...Crimson these are small but positive steps. Realistically - that's the best you can hope for now.
Got an unsolicited blackberry picture of the baby trying to eat with chopsticks tonight. I replied with a heart and a smiley. It sure doesn't mean that we are "all good" but it least it is a nice gesture considering she knows how much I miss him.
Crimson
you both miss him and you both realize the other misses him....this is NOT bad.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I totally relate to how you both feel about our spouses preferring to live w/o our children than to reconcile with us and wonder how is that possible. I used to obsess with thoughts like this all the time and now I am trying very hard not to think that. If I am completely honest with myself, I then have to admit that my H is NOT really preferring to live w/o the kids, he just cannot see himself living with ME, so he feels he has to sacrifice time with his kids to keep them away from the toxic relationship we had in our M. And to be honest, the way I was acting, with my anger, detachment from him and all the issues we had, I can see now how he felt this way. I understand clearly what his state of mind was when he walked away.
NLW mentions how her H felt "stuck." I heard the same - my husband literally told me he felt "trapped" in our marriage and it took him a long time to come to the decision to leave. What held him back? He said that he stayed as long as he did for the kids. He said that finally he came to a point where he just could not do it any longer.
Granted - he has also revised our marital history somewhat - he now cannot remember any good things about our 13 years of marriage, but there is a lot of truth in his description of our dysfunctional relationship. (Plus he also started an EA that I believe in my heart also helped him make the decision to give up and leave).
Anyways, I try not to focus on that - although it pains me to think about what we are both missing out and what our family could be, it's just too painful and I now choose to focus on what I can do to change his view of me and our R. I want him to start trusting me again and feel comfortable around me as a first step. Then, time will tell - I am letting go and letting God.
I have three young children and like you, I hope that our kids will also be a strong bond that will eventually help turn the tide in my favor and eventually have my H choose me and our family instead of OW. Although I have to keep reminding myself that IF this is going to happen, it will take a long time, lots of patience and a lot of work on myself.
I do know now that if this doesn't happen, I will become a better person for all the changes I am working on right now. The hard part for me, is to detach to the point of believing that my marriage is over. I am definitely not at that point. I still adore my H, and still hold hope for a future together.
I hope you guys continue to find strength as we continue this journey, becoming better people every day. KG
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
but you can have hope, while preparing for the worst. When your h sees what he is missing b/c of his choice
it WILL begin to weigh on him as long as what he sees in you/kids is stuff he'd miss. Make sense?
I REALLY think you are getting it, so now you have to trust that
1) good memories will resurface. There WERE Some, right? I mean you have 3 kids...and you did more than most couples and expected A LOT from each other. But the good times will resurface -- when he sees/hears of good ones with you and the kids being made now.
AND
2) that in time, he'll believe in your changes and wonder about a reconciliation....AND
3) OW will reveal that she is human....and flawed. BTW, how is HER h taking all this? And her kids?
They are both giving up a lot to be together. The "tragic romance" of that only lasts so long before it wears. This isn't Romeo and Juliet or a television show with "Us against Them" and having the "us" winning out against all odds.
Hang in there...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I totally relate to how you both feel about our spouses preferring to live w/o our children than to reconcile with us and wonder how is that possible. I used to obsess with thoughts like this all the time and now I am trying very hard not to think that. If I am completely honest with myself, I then have to admit that my H is NOT really preferring to live w/o the kids, he just cannot see himself living with ME, so he feels he has to sacrifice time with his kids to keep them away from the toxic relationship we had in our M. And to be honest, the way I was acting, with my anger, detachment from him and all the issues we had, I can see now how he felt this way. I understand clearly what his state of mind was when he walked away.
My husband literally told me he felt "trapped" in our marriage and it took him a long time to come to the decision to leave. What held him back? He said that he stayed as long as he did for the kids. He said that finally he came to a point where he just could not do it any longer.
Granted - he has also revised our marital history somewhat - he now cannot remember any good things about our 13 years of marriage, but there is a lot of truth in his description of our dysfunctional relationship. (Plus he also started an EA that I believe in my heart also helped him make the decision to give up and leave).
Brutally honest post, and something that many of us can relate to. Thanks for posting it.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Got my son back today. W had told me she would drop him off between 6:30 and 7:00 PM. She actually showed up at 5:30 - she was going to meet with the neighbor's kid's and our S - but they weren't home. I had told her earlier that I would go to her place and get him and she was OK dropping him off here - even though it's about a 15-20 minute drive.
It's odd for me to see her ring the doorbell to get into the house she used to live in. I had boxed up some Christmas decorations for her as well as our son's school pictures. She was a little shocked that there weren't more decorations for her - truthfully, I can't tell what belongs to who anymore. When she was standing at the door I noticed a new key fob in her hand and walked down the front walk:
M: You got a new car
W: Yeah, the other one crapped out on me. I surprised you didn't hear about it - I had to "justify the purchase" (said in a very slightly annoyed voice)
M: With who?
W: With your lawyer.
M: Oh - I had no idea, I haven't heard from him in over a week. It's a nice looking car!
W: Thanks.
Needless to say, my anxiety during the exchange was high - but I hid it and presented as upbeat as possible. She seemed "down" a little bit - I'm guessing because she had to drop off our son, but my ego wants to believe she misses me and saw the tree and lights on the house and felt a little sad that she wasn't here. Probably a pipe dream, I know.
I thought that as a 180 I would text her "sorry that you had to deal with my lawyer to get your care, that must have been aggravating." Is that a bad idea? In a sense it's apologizing for something I really had no idea was going on, but at the same time I want to let her know that I understand her feelings about the situation. What to do?
It was hard to see her - I looked right into her eyes and she is still so beautiful to me. It really makes me feel a sense of loss - I still miss her, especially this time of year. As soon as she left, my hands were kind of shaking and I had to sit down and take a few deep breaths. Got a little teary. Seeing her is hard - I want to tell her everything that I have been thinking and I know I can't. I want to give her a hug and tell her that I hope she is doing OK, and I know I can't. I want to tell her that I miss her, and I know I can't. DB'ing is tough business. I hope it is having a least a small impact on her on some level.
