When is it time?

[stillhopin]

I think I need to start a new thread. If interested in more of the back story check out "Upside Down" in this same forum.

I'm lucky that in I quickly found DB and began implementing it quickly. My DB coach was impressed with me and told me to keep up the good work. I realize it has been a very short time, less than two weeks on the calendar, but a decade in my mind.

That being said the differences from discussing divorce and emotions running to high, to conversations this week that are all but normal, including a couple of hugs, has me completely scratching my head and scared to death of the next bomb.

It has been right on the tip of my tongue to ask if we can seek counseling and begin steps to reconcile but I have held it back. I got some great advice from my DB coach saying, "If I'm afraid of the answer then don't ask" That one has been my mantra last night and today.

But when? How to know? I've tested the waters of just having some short but important conversations regarding what i'm learning about myself and those have been met positively with "thank you for tell me that." And I think those have resulted (as well as my GAL efforts, and acting as if) in the better times we're having. Seeking patience and advice.

[Harrier]

My thoughts.

It's waaaay too soon. I hasn't even been 2 weeks yet. Enjoy the fact that you have a couple hugs, and normal conversations.

I'd also kinda back off of telling her what you've learned about yourself...it's 10X more important to show her. Telling her isn't going to change anything without action.

However, if she is ready to start moving in some direction. I would follow her lead. You need take it slow for both of your sakes and for the Ms sake.

Give her the time and the space.

For me, I waited until my W wanted to go to MC and not before. I didn't really push her on that (I did other minor dumb things) but with that I was pretty consistent on.

It took about 5 weeks for her to bring it up. And that is very quick for DBing.

good luck.

[stillhopin]

Thanks much Harrier. I know that is true in my head, I just need to keep posting and reading on here looking for more help in coping to keep things in perspective. Without it, I think I would have caved several times already.

We've made plans for Thanksgiving and they're not together (she's wanting time alone with her family to tell them her plans). It seems almost like a deadline for me, hoping things will change before she has to do that. I know it wont be easy for her and they'll likely give her a hard time, she doesn't want the kids around due to the drama she's expecting. Wish I could be there for her for that or moreover that it doesn't have to happen at all.

I like your quote about patience, so true.

[workinghardguy]

It seems almost like a deadline for me, hoping things will change before she has to do that

Ah yes... the proverbial game clock. So I've only been at this two months now, but I remember very much being right where you are. I remember telling my EAP counselor that I constantly felt like it was the fourth quarter, I knew time was running out, I'm trying to run my two minute offense, but nobody will tell me how time is on the damn game clock nor will they let me take a timeout!

Here is a very important concept to understand... there is no clock. There never is a clock. There never is a deadline. She does not get to decide when you stop trying. She does get to decide when to separate or when to divorce. But that doesn't mean you have to stop. You have all the power in this dynamic.

I know... that sounds crazy right? But, let's say she takes the kids and walks out the door... is it over? Are you done? You can be. You can say, enough and stop. That is up to you at any given point. Or you can continue to DB. You can hold out. You can wait for her, improve yourself, and make yourself a man that she's an idiot for not coming back to. At some point you may then decide you're not waiting anymore and move on. Or she may come back. Or she may come back but you've grown so much that you can't accept her back.

But that's why there is no clock. Understand that the D is not the end of this, it's only another beginning. So don't live in fear of it. I'm not saying you should welcome it or look forward to it. It will hurt, but don't run around worrying that the clock is running out. Be Payton Manning out there running his two minute drill... or I should say Aaron Rodgers really don't be Jay Cutler (hope you're not a Bears fan)

Wish I could be there for her for that or moreover that it doesn't have to happen at all.

Ok.. and I'm sorry, but why on God's green earth do you wish you could be there for her? It's not like she has to go through this! She is CHOOSING to put herself in this mess. Good luck with it dear! She is making her bed, and by all means let her lie in it. Do not get her a blanket, a pillow, or a single thing. Telling mom and dad will be hard? Good! Glad to hear it! It should be hard.

I understand wanting to be there for your W when she is pain or hurt. If her mom dies, be there for her. But if she is in pain because of a self-inflicted wound... well... there's an easy remedy for that.

[workinghardguy]

And here's a quote I got from somewhere on the boards... I even wrote down on the inside cover of my counseling journal, I still refer to it (though far less often than I did in those first few weeks after the bomb):

"There may be a day when I quit and give up. But today is not that day."

The other one, that I think came from 25, that I have written in the cover goes something like, "A woman is attracted to a man who is in control of his emotions, not to a man controlled by his emotions."

[stillhopin]

Thanks, I needed that. All thoughts I need to hear. Good quotes as well, I'll add them to my list.

Telling myself I'm in control will take some work. As I roll over here at 3am on the couch that's a hard one to keep in perspective. I'll try though, I can see there is some power there and we all need sources of strength.

No worries, not a Bears fan. I'd love nothing more than to have the confidence that Aaron Rodgers has and pick apart this defense. I'm playing for our kids and for our M. We really need a victory here. It seems like there are first downs but somehow the view of the goal line is obstructed.

[workinghardguy]

Well, time for the second fundamental reality here on the boards...

You don't need a victory. Frankly, until you are able to process this concept you're going to have a hard time DBing well and making any progress.

You need air, you need water, you want your M. They are different. For things we need we will do just about anything including, sometimes, short-circuiting our value systems and betraying our own selves. We will plead, beg, demand, and be desperate for the things we need. We don't do that level of desperation for things we want.

I need air. I want my pilot's license. Therefore I will do almost anything for air, but if I can't have my pilot's license life will go on.

You need lots of things... you don't need your marriage. This is not saying you don't want your M or that it is unimportant; only that you don't need it to live. You can live, quite happily eventually, without your W and your M. Your kids can and will survive. So no, you don't "need a victory here".

WAW's can smell the desperation on you and it turns them off. So there's one reason to detach and let go. Second, you are still connected to your W. This means that as she goes through her rollercoaster you ride along with her. Trust me... this will get old very fast. It means you do not get to be the master of your own emotions - she does.

You're early in this process so all of this will sound wrong, counterintuitive, and painful. That's ok and normal, but read through sitch after sitch and you will see the successful ones come about once the LBS realizes they don't need their WAS anymore.

I'm just about there. It's taken months to get here, but I can see how life will continue to exist without my W. I don't like it as much as I like life with my W, but again, I don't get to control that. So therefore if I NEED her I'm going to be in a bad way should she execute the rights she has to terminate our M. Ergo, I can't need her. And frankly, as I'm growing and changing I'm finding that, unless she starts to grow too, I don't know that I even want her anymore.

I'm sitting here with a sick stepdaughter who's been up since 3am. She wants her mom. Her mom is god knows where. Her mom just texted me that she think she'll be home by 6:30am. Awesome. This is who I want? A woman who sets this type of example for her children? Who can't find a way to get home to care for HER daughter when she's ill? Who can't respect that I have to work tomorrow, that now I had to send an email saying I'd be late because I need to get some sleep once "I get some relief"?

No. I don't need or even want that. This doesn't mean I use my right to "drop the rope" right now, but it does mean that things will change before anything ever gets better. It means I've seen my W for who she is, not the idolized, magnificent person I had constructed in my head early on where all this was my fault and none hers. No... it means I don't need her and may not even want her anymore. That is a sad, yet empowering feeling all at the same time.

Until you get there... at least to the not needing her or your M part, this is going to be very, very hard.

[stillhopin]

I do understand what you're trying to say. As you've indicated it's all over the forum and the text.

I must respectively disagree though, at least based upon my intent for usage of the words. My kids being fine if this doesn't work out is a huge judgement call, and quite frankly one that 30 plus years of research doesn't support. If my kids end up children of divorced parents, i it is my opinion that even the best scenario is a loss. This loss is one that I can do my best to avoid. I will work on myself as I've been doing and will continue db'ing to avoid that loss.

I'm not trying to win so that someone loses. This is not a competition. I'd be willing to bet that those who have successfully saved their marriage feel victorious as do those who have improved themselves along the way.