A fork in the road - EA admitted by wife

[NYCPeter]

Previous thread is here

Thanks for all the help and wisdom I have received - I know I have and continue to break all the rules.

Starting a new thread as my old thread is way over the limit. Tonight feels like a big night after yesterday's discovery. I hope my W's heart warms further, but fear a few hours with her "friends" at work will put a stop to that.

[~ kd ~]

Hey Peter, just a thought...

Have your read through Denver's sitch? There's some real similarities there, I think...

[Harrier]

Peter,

I'm going to be a cold water on your situation. I mean you seem almost giddy about the revelation (not that the EA happened, but that it was exposed)

You are in for a really long haul my friend. And it will get tougher before it gets easier.

Rarely does one event get any M back on track. I know we all think that if that one thing happens, then the W will see the light. The same old applies consistency and time. Also, this is not an excuse for you to just not DB (I know you know this) because a lot of times if you discover your W was doing something some people use it as an excuse to no try anymore.

I would also caution you about claiming you've almost forgiven her. You will be surprised in what ways it comes up and how it can affect you. Yes we are all different but betrayal is still betrayal.

[NYCPeter]

H - thanks for the cold water - you are right I am giddy.. but about what happened post revelation, that she wanted to be close to me. That's why I think tonight is so important - if she follows up.

I believe in my W's mind she was no longer in a R with me - so the EA was a R outside of ours. This is how she is justifying this to herself.

I only have one hope - after all the L visit is scheduled for the 15th. I believe she never thought I would accept it, so she's never forgiven herself. Now that a weight is off her shoulders and she sees I am willing to forgive then perhaps she will see there is a possibility of working on the M.

I may be delusional and it may only be a small hope - but it's the only straw i can grasp right now.

I recognize time and consistency are needed - I will continue to DB, GAL and do 180's where I can. I will not mention the EA nor the betrayal. I won't mention the L visit until the night before as I would want to know if it's going ahead so I can sort out my own legal representation.

I am hurt, but I will forgive - Why? Because I know the beautiful, caring, considerate person she can be. Because my girls deserve to be in a home with both their parents. Because I am to blame for 50% of this and I'm holding myself accountable.

[~ kd ~]

I won't mention the L visit until the night before as I would want to know if it's going ahead so I can sort out my own legal representation.

How about this...

DON'T mention your W's L visit on the 14th... set up your own L appointment and IF your W follows through (cheaters lie and often have horrible follow through) you will be ready for it...

I can tell you as MANY, MANY LBS can... I've been told by my W that she was going to do all sorts of things... and she didn't follow through.

Why bring up the L? So that she can be reminded...? of something that you do not want...?

Talk to an L so you can be ready in case... then... just carry on with your life...

[NYCPeter]

You are right KD - I'm likely to know by her demeanour on the 15th if she has visited anyway. I met two L's a while back - one I liked but was v.expensive, the other didn't seem to have a clue.

Me - So how much do you think I'll need to pay in Spousal Support.
L - Oh it won't be more than $800 per month
ME - Really? That's great, maybe I will be able to afford a nice place where my girls can come and visit.
L - Well I'd say $2,000 a month tops.

He also didn't have a clue about childs support and how it's calculated.

[kml]

Wow - that's REALLY lame, especially since it is usually a formula. Definitely don't want to use him!

It's a good idea to ask friends who've gotten divorced for referrals. That's how I found my guy, a friend of mine from this board (that I also knew IRL) had used him, so I had a good idea of his strengths and approach going in.

[NYCPeter]

kml - you aren't going to believbe this, but none of my friends are divorced.
Re: CS - there is a formula (25% for NY State - 2 kids), but he thought it was pro-rated on the number of overnights, not the case in NY - primary get all 25%.

[25yearsmlc]

Peter, you have gotten much good advice and in particular, was the incredibly great advice from Telemark…HEED HIS WORDS...

I rarely mention this, for obvious reasons, but I had an EA 2 decades ago, which nearly turned full on physical (there was some making out).

At the time, I felt completely justified in wanting to have an affair. In fact, I blamed my h for how neglected I felt. I had joined the military b/c H owed the Army paybacktime for med school. Then we had a war. Ooops. My work life suddenly sucked big time and I was getting deployed so I'm sure I felt unfairly burdened by HIS choices and how I was impacted more than he was.

You MUST accept that your w may feel that you pushed her into OMs' arms.

I also felt shame and then later almost sort of heroic, in my private efforts to save our m.

I DID tell my h I wasn't happy, but he was so grumpy and sleep deprived it was like telling an angry drunk you want him to calm down...does NOT work.

But I was lucky b/c I was confused enough to go to a chaplain and a shrink. I wanted the "real" moral opinion and I wanted to know if I was going nuts b/c this was very out of character for me...the shrink, btw, gave me some sleep aids but little useful advice. (SIDENOTE--the chaplain was great for ME...he got me into doing theater again, and ways of seeking out more passion in my life, without breaking my vows. Might sound weird, but it has done wonders for me personally, then professionally, and as a wife...)

Anyhow

I also spoke to a good non judgmental friend who more or less showed me the realistic outcome of an affair...and I worked it out on my own and ended the r w/OM.


But Peter, here's what would probably have happened if my h had discovered it AND confronted me in anger or tried to shame ME...

1) I would have defended my choice.

2) I would have blamed HIM.

And 3) I probably would have divorced him, in part b/c I'd want to be "proved right" and save MY honor. And h might have filed out of his own anger.

It's true that I was indeed a neglected wife. I say that 20 years later with certainty, but with no anger. MY h is an MD and he was in training then. HE was too busy and too fatigued, with relentless hours, for me or the kids to feel any other way b/c he had nothing left for us.

When he was home, rare as that way, he wasn't really present. He'd fall asleep in minutes and frequently was in a lousy terrible mood...or he'd have headphones on to block the family noise so he could study and prepare for a surgery the next day...

hard for me to see that when I'd worked all day and done dinner and child care but HIS work is so important...and it's hard to compete with deathly ill patients.

NO spouse felt attended to, or had their needs met then.

Knowing that, and being with other spouses who felt the same way but wanted to remain married, helped...

Reacting in anger and pride (and the anger mostly comes from a wounded pride) are not going to help you.

Tread lightly NYCP...assume little....take Telemarks advice even if the cat is out of the bag.

Your wife is confused and unhappy in her life and wants something to change.

Show her YOU are part of the change by demonstrating it.

Stop the talking...please shut up. Talking so much is not nearly as attractive as you think. Mostly women want to be heard and listened to, not talked to or lectured or "fixed".

Reassurances are fine but they don't take that many words.

I DO commend you for showing her that you can get past this.

i really believe many WASs fail to return after affairs b/c they believe that the LBSer won't forgive them, they fear that the LBSer will hold it over their heads like the Sword of Damacles or throw it in their face every time they fight...sometimes they are right.

But don't tell her you forgive her unless she asks..and I'm betting she won't.
Or not anytime soon...

She may not be seeking out your forgiveness. I wasn't seeking that from my h. I wanted time and attention and love...not his judgement.

To say you forgive her means you are saying she has wronged you, and she does not believe it YET....and she may never.

Can you handle the reality that you two may not ever see the PAST in the same way?

I accept that in my m. My h's MLC and move to Alaska is not something he and I view the same way, although he says it was a mistake.

I think he feels it COULD have worked if only he had gone earlier...whatever...So even now he revises things...

what matters most, imo, is agreeing on how to go "From this day forward" so if the time comes when you and your w are in "Piecing", then deal with it that way.


Also, If she sees the L, so what? It's called reality therapy.

I almost think every spouse ought to go visit a L every few years to see how costly a divorce would actually be, just so they don't toss out the threat so lightly...

I think she might come away MORE ready to work on the m after seeing the L...after all, having a greatly decreased income and two kids, including one who'll always need some level of care sounds super appealing..,

And Peter, I hope you told the L you spoke to about your special needs d...

INteresting that YOU went to see a L and didn't tell her...which is fine but a tad hypocritical for you to act as if it's all over if she sees one, but perfectly acceptable if you do...she needs the info, frankly.

I am sure that the CP d's needs can affect the CS, but a good divorce lawyer would know. Most states have a formula that acts as a GUIDELINE (not a rigid statute) and you can predict within some degree of accuracy, what you'll pay.


Still, I believe your best bet to staying married, is being the best man you can become, a man only a fool would leave. Then leave the results up to God.

No woman is unmoved by the loving interactions between her children and their father. It's a turn on, frankly.

Is your w home all day with the girls? How disabled is your CP d?

I know friends with disabled children. The level of care of those kids varies wildly, so IDK your particular d's needs or the severity of her disability.

But I have a gf w/a very severely disabled CP child. He requires 24/7 care, which she provided exclusively til they hired some respite care.

She has 2 other kids. Her CP son will never talk or walk, or feed himself, or use a toilet or wash himself. He is now 15 y/o so he's too big to carry. Both parents cycled thru depressive episodes and their sex life suffered greatly.
Don't get me wrong, they do love their son. But they're divorced now.

So It takes a toll. How has your w handled the d's care issues and how does she see the future with her?

What do you think YOUR issues are and what are YOU doing to address them?


And what about your GAL? Those are not just to keep you from obsessing, but to get you to meet new interesting people, & to generate some mystery
and make you a more interesting partner. Just working and coming home doesn't generate a lot to talk about.

Plus your sitch would benefit even more by some mystery at your end, and the concept of OW being interested in you probably won't hurt. No, I'm not suggesting you play a game of jealousy creation, BUT some mystery would help. Don't put all the cards in her hand...

I WANT TO ASK ---"Why isn't your w doing something different, occupationally speaking?" She needs her "life/love tank" filled with something she can feel engaged in...

See my note about theater and passion again. Really give that some thought. If you love your work, that might be enough for you, but she can't feel super rewarded by her job, if she was an art history major...what does she love doing?

HAVING SAID ALL THIS^^^, I want to remind you that this is food for thought. YOU CANNOT make this about you fixing her life. Stay out of her sandbox and in your own. .

You need to focus on changing you and making your life a good one, so GAL and be there for your d's...

and don't focus on your w or what you think she is feeling/thinking/doing/wanting...

Show her a calm warm man, in a loving home and let that contrast with what she thinks she might create out there...give her something to miss.

Good luck, and keep on keeping on...

[NYCPeter]

25 - Thanks for the response.

You MUST accept that your w may feel that you pushed her into OMs' arms.

I do - I genuinely do, I certainly did not create an atmosphere where she would have not even thought about it. I take responsibility for this. She was neglected - while I naively thought I was doing what was best, providing for my family in the same manner my father provided for us.

I also spoke to a good non judgmental friend who more or less showed me the realistic outcome of an affair

I am obviously do not know all my wife's friends' opinion of th Sitch - I do know that some are envcouraging the D.

When he was home, rare as that way, he wasn't really present.

That was me pre-bomb, it hasn't been since because I realized that my family was more important.

But don't tell her you forgive her unless she asks..and I'm betting she won't. Or not anytime soon...

I don't intend telling her I forgive her - she doesn't need that from me.

I wanted time and attention and love...not his judgement.

I have been offering time, attention and love - she does not want it from me, she has shut me out. Last night was as intimate as we have been since the start of all of this.

I almost think every spouse ought to go visit a L every few years to see how costly a divorce would actually be, just so they don't toss out the threat so lightly...

I think she might come away MORE ready to work on the m after seeing the L...after all, having a greatly decreased income and two kids, including one who'll always need some level of care sounds super appealing..,

And Peter, I hope you told the L you spoke to about your special needs d...

Interesting that YOU went to see a L and didn't tell her...which is fine but a tad hypocritical for you to act as if it's all over if she sees one, but perfectly acceptable if you do...she needs the info, frankly.

My W has already seen a L "to see where she stands" - which is what prompted me to see a L myself. This is why this 2nd visit is so serious - she said her L will send me a letter telling me that she's filed. Yes I did tell my L about my D9 with CP.

Just working and coming home doesn't generate a lot to talk about.

I agree - but I want to put the girls to bed - by the time I'm done it's gone 9:00 and most of my friends live too far away.

I WANT TO ASK ---"Why isn't your w doing something different, occupationally speaking?" She needs her "life/love tank" filled with something she can feel engaged in...

I've encouraged her to do things - she is a very smart and talented woman, I have offered to work from home or take time off so she can maybe switch careers, she has never been motivated to do that - and you are right, I have tried to make this about fixing her life and she clearly resented it, so I stopped. Art was her passion - but now she no longer seems interested.

So It takes a toll. How has your w handled the d's care issues and how does she see the future with her?

My W is a very loving mother who is the major carer for our D9 - she takes full responsibility for all appts etc. I have offered to help more in this area, she always says she doesn't want it.

You need to focus on changing you and making your life a good one, so GAL and be there for your d's...

I have changed and I have been there for my d's - what I haven't been so good at is GAL, because I am around my D's and my W works weekends.

Show her a calm warm man, in a loving home and let that contrast with what she thinks she might create out there...give her something to miss.

I am calmer (note I didn't say calm) warm man in a loving home. I'm not sure that she believes I am though.