Hello everyone, I've read this forum for a while and finally decided to register. I'm going through quite a situation and really just kind of wanted some friendly "faces" to bounce some ideas off of and to share my story with. I apologize for the length of the story lol.
I was married for almost 5 years. My wife and I dated for about 4 years before we married. Last year, near the end of August (2010), she left and basically moved in with another man. He was the opposite of me, kind of a hippie and she thought she was in love with him. During this process she filed for divorce. She came back in December, 2 days before the divorce was final but it was too late to call it off at that point. We immediately moved back in together on December 6 of 2010. Things didn't go all that well and despite her pleas to remarry and such, I wouldn't agree. Anyway, I made the big mistake of turning to alcohol to help me cope with the fact that she had left, etc., etc. I've struggled with alcohol for most of my adult life. I used it to zone out and refused to face our problems. We were in counseling with a very good marriage counselor who teaches Michelle's books and message. I just didn't put the effort forth to move forward and was angry with her for most of the time. Well, while she was gone for the few months, I had met another woman. Unfortunately, I continued to text with this woman while trying to reconcile with my ex wife. Of course, I realize this was a mistake. Anyway, on June 14 of 2011, my ex came home from work and caught me texting with the other woman. She immediately moved out again. I didn't really try and do much to get her back because for some reason I just saw it as an opportunity to drink as much as I wanted. I know that is twisted and sick but that's how I acted. By the time I finally got my act together, my ex had decided that enough was enough with the drinking and she ended things. In the meantime, she's started dating someone else again, and professes to love him.
I have been now 42 days sober and am still seeing my counselor. I think he feels I should just move on but I really just want to try and piece my life back together with my ex. If things go well for her, she will be moving off to pharmacy school next fall, probably about 4 hours from where we now live. Her new boyfriend lives about 7-8 hours away from our hometown. they manage to see each other every few weeks or so from the best I can tell. Anyway, when the realization that my alcoholism had destroyed my marriage hit me, my wife was already moving on. I did exactly the opposite of what I should have done. I pursued her and tried to convince her that we should get back together. I can see now that all I did was push her to the other man, and boy did it work lol. A few weeks ago we had a major argument where I said some really cruel things to her over text message. She has had problems with infidelity during our marriage and I brought all of that out again. Then, I asked that she not contact me for a while (we were speaking via text almost every day). We have two dogs together and I have them with me. I told her that she shouldn't contact me even if it had to do with our dogs and she flipped out. She and her mom began bashing me on facebook and all of that good stuff. After a phone call to my counselor, we decided I should let her know that she can see our dogs whenever she likes and just to let me know. Well, after that, I went 11 days without talking to her. Not once did she check on our dogs or contact me in any way. Finally, yesterday, I broke down and sent her a happy halloween text. We exchanged a few texts which were positive and then I stopped texting her so as not to appear needy or clingy. I'm planning on texting again in a week or so to make contact again.
My main focus is to get her back. I've been doing some new things with my life, including the sobriety and I've also learned to SCUBA dive. I've also been hanging out with new friends, including women. I've been clear with these women that I'm not ready for a relationship and that I want my ex wife back. I just am looking for advice or possible solutions as to what to do next. I know that I have to let her new relationship be and not interfere with it. I hope that I can still talk to her though so long as we keep it upbeat and positive. As embarrasing as this is, I've even resorted to speaking with a psychic for advice as well. I feel like I'm going crazy without her and I want to have a new life with her where I am sober and we can do more things together and be happy. I do truly feel that we both love each other but that we basically need to start over. I'll welcome all advice as to what to do or comments on my situation. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this and helping out
Sorry that you are here but it is the right place to be. This is a good list to follow. It may seem contradictory but it works. hang in there
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
I think my wife's main complaint with me--about my boozing/doping-- was something she said once when she was crying. She said, "I just don't know why this isn't enough for you."
yeah.. d amn my eyes.. but,
could you articulate how she might frame the main obstacle from her perspective? What's the real deal-stopper for her?
and what that means to you?
are you still angry with her? what were you bottling up when ya'll went to counseling: that you sabotaged yourself? and then again vacillated when she wanted to re-marry?
what can she find in you that is edifying and freeing toward her own well-being? Do you honestly want to see her fulfill her dreams/goal toward the pharmacist training? Does she have any substance abuse proclivity? I've been in very demanding therapies the last few years with a wide slice of my peers.. I met a lot of impaired pharmacists.
I haven't posted about my own situation here because frankly, I was just too broken.. had the desire.. couldn't find the language:(see d amn my eyes above)
but I spent many dark nights reading and praying here--between fits of desire to claw my d amn eyes..
but as much as I detested me without her, I didn't want her to come home just to continue living in my own inimitable retrograde ever again.. regardless. I had to turn a corner that looked something like: "If that means leaving me.. honestly.. I understand.. and by the way, bless your beautiful heart" (type thing).
brother, you sound like you've some real issues to settle for yourself. Hopefully some of the women here will speak with you about the infidelities on both your parts. You do see --how to a woman-- a substance abuse habit is something like a mistress?
I admire your honesty about the psychic thing. Obviously you're aware of a spiritual dimension; but an obscure and unreliable 'knowledge' that is potentially confusing or harmful doesn't sound like your best bet. A psychic input is a roll of the dice, so to speak, that can come up snake eyes.
Perhaps you're beginning to define some of what you truly believe in this sense. But, isn't there a firmer spiritual reality that informs you about yourself, your w, and the world?
Welcome aboard. You're in a stitch that will require a lot of work, and mostly time.
Quote:
I'm planning on texting again in a week or so to make contact again.
What do you plan to say in these conversations?
Have you told your W that you are working to get her back? If not, I would suggest that you not tell her anything like that, okay? She is going to have to see proof that you're not going to return to old habits. She is going to have to see that you are the better option for her. That includes being better than OM.
I would suggest that you not do a lot of talk about you. That comes across to women as bragging, and not attractive. If she asks a direct question about your drinking, for example, give her a direct answer. Don't talk about you doing it to get her back.
Talk to her about "her" and show interest in what she does during her day. Never say anything negative about her decisions, actions, or feelings. That will lose a lot of ground , if you do. You have to be more like a cheerleader in her corner, but a very manly cheerleader (lol). Giving support, a shoulder, and an ear whenever she needs one. After the first two contacts, the wait to see if she contacts you. If she doesn't.....then that means you will have to give her more space than you thought. If you push her, you'll lose her as a friend.
So, it will take a long period of time for this to prove out, in her eyes. She is with OM b/c she thinks that's what she needs right now. If you try to bad-mouth OM, she will only pull back from you. She will have to make her decisions to end her A with OM, not b/c of what you say....but b/c she wants to be with the man you've become.
IMHO, you can't afford to act like her H, at this time. She doesn't think of you that way. So, the best route for you to take is to win her friendship, first. Your ultimate goal is to have her back as your lover and W. But, first things first.
So now, what do you plan to say in that conversation?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks so much for the replies everyone! As for what to say in the conversation, I am really not sure. Right now, she has not initiated contact with me in about 3 weeks or more. During that time, I've talked to her once. I guess I will just show interest in her day to day life? The pharmacy school application was due Nov 1, so maybe I could ask about that? Maybe how her family is doing?
Right now I just feel like nothing is going to work and I've blown my shot at getting her back already. We started out trying to be friends, but that wasn't working b/c I did the exact opposite of the DB method. I'd give anything to take that back, but I know I can't. I'm running out of ideas since she won't even text to ask how things are going
EG Congratulations on 6 weeks sobriety! Are you sleeping better yet? Hey, you have gotten great advice here, so please read it carefully and take it in.
So you know, I'm an adult child of an alcoholic, and have gone thru an 12 step program myself after a back injury.
Recovery Is a big deal and getting clean was among the hardest, most horrible, AND most spiritually awakening experiences of my life. Please focus on your recovery. 6 weeks is nothing to the non addict/non alcoholic.
When you say you are sober, do you mean that you have not had a drink, OR do you mean you are sober AND in a recovery program?
What I call "honest sobriety" is based on knowing that alcoholism isn't just about drinking and sobriety isn't just about not having alcohol. "Dry drunks" are just as mean and manipulative and dishonest as active drinkers, but they claim to be "all fixed" since they don't drink.
They still lack coping skills for life and they still try to control others (to avoid having to cope) and they still lie, and they still feel insecure so they still criticize...and they tend to "expect" or feel entitled to reconciliation now that they are "all better"...
but truly there's a lot more to sobriety than merely not drinking.
It's super important that you understand this...
Being a heavy drinker or user impedes maturing and development. For instance, a 40 y/o man who has been heavily drinking since he was a teenager, tends to be as emotionally mature as a teenager.
Being drunk stops real growth. Alcoholics/addicts don't develop emotionally the way they should b/c they numbed their emotions so they didn't get the tools to cope that sober people have to learn to get.
When a sober person faces a setback or heartbreak, they feel it fully, and then plod through it, and then they LEARN from it. They heal...
When an addict or alcoholic faces a setback/heartbreak, they numb the pain...and they numb it some more...so they don't really feel it fully at all. The pain Is there and it's painful enough to keep them using, but they don't work through it.
They don't think they have to, they don't think they need "coping tools" b/c they have booze....they THINK they've taken a short cut around the pain, but it's the opposite...it prolongs the pain.
And it keeps them from "getting it" when it comes to learning life skills for dealing with setbacks, heartbreak, adversity, trauma, fear, joy, trust, falling in love, being rejected, winning at something...all these thigns require maturity. Even success. That's why so many celebrities with drug problems FAIL at SUCCESS...they never learned the skills that they were supposed to pick up on the way to becoming an adult.
One reason YOU are in such a hurry to "get her back" is b/c you hate the discomfort of regret and heartbreak. It has been 6 weeks! Like I said, to a sober person, that's not much time at all.
But You want to have it "be over now!" or numb it but you cannot. You must remain sober...and this is real life
and you have to remember what they tell us in program... Learn to Face Life on its' terms...but face it!! It's okay to feel pain. Your Pain is real, but it is not fatal or eternal. You shall get through it. You shall survive it and you shall be happy again, you shall laugh again and you shall love again.
You get through it by working your program, relying on your support group and your faith and counselor and sponsor and family and friends, and you will. If you are in a 12 step program, you must know that
If you were single, You would not be considered to be in a position to have a relationship with any woman, let alone a committed one, until you manage to be in recovery for a much longer time. Usually a year or two.
Do you attend AA meetings? Do you have a sponsor yet? Please get one ( a male) and work out a R with them so that they can advise you as to when you'd be ready to even pursue a r with her.
It does not mean you cannot contact her. The refusal to allow her to see the dogs...what was that about?
Were you sober when you did that? What are you doing about your anger?
It seems that you have a history of broken promises, holding things over her head, and addiction, correct?
So then, two key ingredients for her to believe in your changes are TIME and consistency...here's the "math" of it:
consistent change + sufficient time = belief in the changes.
Once your head has been clear for a longer period, the dust has settled, and you've held down a job AND done some real GAL
then your contacts will likely mature into a mature friendship and possibly more.
Div Busting is A PROCESS...like getting sober is.
It's a PROGRAM like recovery is. So learn new ways of coping and expressing
and FORGIVING...first yourself, then her, and
learn to stay in the present.
I hear a lot of "futurizing" in your words. You are way ahead of yourself.
Be here now.
"Just for today", what are you doing to stay sober?
just for today, what are you doing to be a better man?
What issues other than anger and addiction, did you and your wife have?
Were you faithful to her? Were you reliable? Were you honest? For the most part, it's hard for a drunk to be the latter two...
So what are YOU doing to work on YOU-
so that when her new R with OM becomes troublesome, as ALL R's do at some point
and she realizes you are becoming the man she always wanted you to become,
how are you going to demonstrate the new you?
Bottom line is that SHE MUST BELIEVE that marriage to you today and going forward, would be better/different than before.
How will YOU show her that?
She must also believe that
your changes are real and lasting. IF your changes are just to "get her back!" then those are not changes; those are tactics to achieve a goal and they will NOT last...
tactics are manipulative. Changes are real and they stem from you wanting to be a better man.
So Instead of approaching this as a "how do I get my wife back?", try saying
"Just for today--
I will be the best man I can be, and I shall leave the results up to God. "
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
how old are you and your w? Are you both employed?
What are your educational and occupational back grounds?
Was this a first m for both? How do each of your families feel about all this?
Is there anyone else who drinks too much? Does your w?
What were the issues your wife SAID SHE felt were wrong in the m?
Do you think ANY of them were valid?
Which ones are you doing something about and what are you doing about those?
Knowing This helps us to help you.
PLEASE READ THE DIV BUSTING OR DIV REMEDY BOOK ASAP...it'll help you get a lot more out of your life
and more out of this site...
good luck!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
