Peicing and hoping I'm doing the right thing.

[FreeBird0120]

Thank you so much lc4 and MZ...

I definitely need time to process these things. I hate what this distrust is doing to me, and I know that H is the one who put me here, but I hate it!!

Every time he takes his phone into the bathroom, or puts his phone on silent. When he's away at work or running errands on the weekend, my mind goes crazy. Is he talking to her?? Are they meeting up?? Am I a big joke to both of them as they talk or meet?? I hate feeling like this, especially because I don't know for sure if they are even in contact still.

I don't want to feel like I have to put H under a microscope, but I can't help it. I just want her to disappear...Leave my family alone!! I've never hated anyone, but I am so close to hating this poor excuse for a woman!!

[MynameisMZ]

Focus on the positive, focus on the loving things he tells you.
If I knew you in person I'd take you for a pedicure.
Be sure to do something nice for yourself.

I sure do know the feelings of distrust & thinking you're the brunt of their joke. I felt that too. I also felt like everyone in my H's company was looking at me as a poor pathetic soul. These A s seem to turn a perfectly good, solid, bold, strong woman into a puddle of self-doubt. This too shall pass.

Your self-doubt may be founded, but don't despair. I think you said you are very intuitive and usually right. Me too. Denial kicked in hard for me and so I didn't believe it for a long time, even though I had suspicions. Figured it was part of turning 50 and experiencing paranoia. In my story I tell how one of my best friends ran into my H and ow one day and she had same thoughts and she too told herself that she was just being 50 and paranoid, didn't want to cause trouble so didn't tell me.

Remember, IF he is still in contact, IGNORE it. If you find out, calmly and firmly tell him that your R can't possibly heal if she is still in the picture.

And for that ow.....she's breaking the sacred girlfriend code.....don't ever go after another woman's man ....or woman ;-)

What has he agreed to as far as piecing? It is early, however, not too early to have some agreements about transparency?

[FreeBird0120]

He's really only agreed to continue to work on us. I asked him if there was anything else I needed to know. Anything else that could possibly come up as a surprise, and he said no. I told him that I was willing to try to forgive him and work on us as well, and that I would try to consider this a clean slate. From this point on no more lies, no more secrets and that I needed complete honesty and transparency. He agreed, however, I still don't have the password to our cell phone account, and I don't have access to his work phone records obviously, so I can only really count on whether he's being honest with me or not...

He has told me that he hasn't talked to her, only Hello's and Have a good weekend in passing at the office (as he doesn't want to be a jerk and ignore her.) This weekend was exceptionally hard for me for whatever reason. I kept replaying over and over in my head the conversations they were having via instant messages, and there were a couple that were a little alarming (not that everything they discussed wasn't alarming), so I asked him about them. (I know I shouldn't have, but I guess I needed closure on those two particular things.)

1. Was a convo they were having about the afternoon before, and he had stated that he wished he could go back to the prior afternoon and couldn't get it out of his head. She agreed and said that she couldn't stop thinking about his words and his hands. He joked and said "What my hands without lotion?" and she told him his hands felt good with or without lotion. Since he's maintained that nothing physical had happened between them, that it was only talking, it freaked me out, so I asked what had happened and of course he said he'd just given her a back massage...whatever!!!

2. The second thing was when D and I had moved, he hit his rock bottom, and wasn't talking to anyone but me and D. I guess she'd text and called him and he didn't respond, and they were supposed to meet for lunch, but he didn't show up. The next day he'd text everyone in his phone a random question: "If love is supposed to be the greatest feeling in the world, and love hurts, does that mean that pain is the greatest feeling in the world?" She got very angry that he ignored her calls and texts, and then mass texted her this. They ended up fighting, she told him that if he wanted me back they couldn't be friends. He told her that he didn't know what he wanted but that he was at the lowest point of his life and needed time and space to figure things out. He told her that the one person he didn't expect to give him attitude did (her)and that their friendship needed to end. She profusely apologized and asked if this was goodbye. He said "Don't you think that's best? You have your own family and issues to deal with and I have mine. I don't know if and when I'll ever be myself again. I need time to figure this out." She told him that it was painful that he wasn't talking to her and that she didn't understand. He said, "You tell me how you would feel driving away from your home with your daughter in tears on the driveway holding her father watching you drive away. Tell me how you would feel knowing that when you returned home, your family wasn't going to be there and knowing that you would not get to see your baby girl every day of her life like you always have since she was born. Then you tell me if you would have continued with our plans. I freaked out on this one because it sounded to me like they were planning something together as in she leaving her husband and shacking up with my H, but he explained that they were supposed to have lunch that day and he bailed on her...

So anyways, they aren't fighting I guess anymore if they continue to say Hi and Have a good weekend to each other...I have to try to ignore it...you're right MZ. It's just so hard...and I know that every time I ask a question, or refer to her in any way, or make him feel like he's under a microscope, it makes it worse.

But why do we LBS's have to endure this and walk on egg shells just so WAS doesn't feel uncomfortable, or feel pressured, or whatever they feel...None of it seems fair...

Oh and btw MZ...I would love to get a pedi with you...I feel like all of you are really close to my heart, and I've never even met any of you, but trust me when I say that I hold each and every one of you close to my heart.

Thanks for listening and helping me thru this very painful time...

BIG HUGS!!!

[oldtimer]

FB,

H is not being honest with you, you get that, right? It was not a backrub, it was sexual activity that involved him talking her off.

OW was right. If he intends to reconcile with you, they cannot be friends. She is not a friend to your M, she has no place in either of your lives. I'm sure H fails to greet and say goodbye to plenty of people at work. There is no reason for them to interact. He has not yet let go. He is not yet being honest with you.

There is no reason for eggshell walking and putting up with this BS. It is counterproductive. But there is also no reason to grill him or put him under a microscope. The stuff here is pretty darn straightforward. Be direct, report where you are, let him choose what to do with that info.

"H, I don't buy that all that was involved was a nonsexual backrub. I want to feel safe, secure, respected, and loved. Right now I feel like an idiot. You have lied about the nature of your R with OW before coming home and after coming home. I require the truth now, clean slate, no attacks, I just need the truth so I can make my own choices."

"OW was right -- our being a couple doesn't fit with a friendship with her. She did not respect our M, she continues to not respect it, she is not a friend to our M. For me to be with you, that R needs to end. I want to know it is crystal clear to her that it is over. You can get on the phone, call her, I'll listen on the extension. Tell her she has no place in your life, no phone calls, no texts, no emails, no unnecessary pleasantries. Let me be clear -- it is not OK with me for you to continue to make room in your life for her. It does not work for me. It is really up to you if you want to keep her on the back burner while you figure out your life. I can see why it would be hard and painful to really let go. It is your choice. But my choice is to not continue to work on a romantic R with her still in the picture as a friend. I will not settle for a crappy R. I want a vibrant, passionate, fantastic, productive partnership with a hot sex life. That means us first, without question, without the disrespect of keeping on friendly terms with your fantasy R."

"Hey, I need the passwords to blah blah blah. Let me get them from you now."

Set some boundaries. Don't settle for a crappy R, you'll just be right back here.

[FreeBird0120]

I agree with you completely OT, however I have said these things to H. He has claimed that he isn't willing to be a jerk and doesn't understand why a simple hello, how are you is a bad thing. I told him I was insecure about their R and that I couldn't trust that it wouldn't happen again. I've explained my insecurities to him, expressed that I don't know how to trust him even though I so badly want to. I've brought up the fact that she too gave him an ultimatum and that he needed to decide on one of us. He said he chose me.

I feel like saying these things again will just push him away. He has told me that they don't talk on the phone or text each other, that it is just Hi's in passing. My gut doesn't believe that, but without proof I feel like constantly bringing my insecurities up just proves to him that his efforts with me mean nothing. That the fact that he's coming home to me doesn't matter and his feelings don't matter, which are all things that he said when I brought up the texts I recently read of the sexual discussions they'd been having prior to me coming home. He said he understood that what he'd done with her was wrong but that they were just conversations. He said it was a game to see who could make the other one blush and give up. I semi believe this as quite often after their sexual discussion sessions one or the other would say "I win".

I also believe that the back rub was definitely more than that because if it were just a back rub, why wouldn't either one of them be able to get it out of their minds, and why would they discuss how much H blushed, and why would they discuss lotion on bare skin...it all makes me so sick to my stomach.

The fact remains that this is all so fresh, and I'm not going to trust him over night, and I'm not going to feel secure anytime soon and this pain is going to be with me for a really long time...and I absolutely hate every second of this!!!

[oldtimer]

Try this:

"H, if OW is going to be someone you talk to, she needs to be a friend to both of us, a friend to our M. Otherwise, she does not belong in either of our lives at all. Let's take her to lunch, clear the air, and make sure she knows that it is really not OK with you for her to have any sort of R with you that does not include me every step of the way."

[MynameisMZ]

You and H are in the hard part of his ending it with her. It's a tricky balance. While you have to do what OT is advising about setting limits and being clear, you also have to ignore any bad behavior.

In my case, I'd set limits and then he would go deeper underground with her. Don't get too scared, but I started questioning at Christmas and it wasn't until June that I found out the entire truth. I ignored from DEC-APR and then started stating I was uncomfortable with their R. During the time I was becoming more vocal, they heated up. However, I maintained my stand that I wanted us and she could not be in the picture. My H was her boss and I had to watch him leave every morning. It killed me every day. You can read about my sitch in MLC section.
My outline is in Keeping Love Alive section. I won't say more here.

I had it in the back of my head that I was not going to play second fiddle. I finally did issue a LRT because if he wanted her, I didn't want him. She may have been young enough to be our daughter, tall and thin, but I knew what she really was inside. Anyone who would take up with a married man, and any man who would do that to his family was not someone I wanted to be with.

It's so hard because it's like something comes in and snatches your H's soul and you don't know him. I needed the real one back and was willing to let him back, but he had to choose. I knew I had to give him some time, but I also had a timeline of my own. I think it was my willingness to give him up that gave me strength.....and that strength came and went.

[poepad]

I had asked him Saturday when a good time to put my rings back on would be, and he said, "Baby steps love...baby steps." We aren't married, it's my engagement ring, but we've lived together 14 years, so we call each other H and W.

What do you guys think??

TOUGH LOVE here, why would live 14 yrs with a daughter without getting married. Dispite the hype, living together is not right. If he was commited to the relationship, you would be married. And his baby steps is BS. Now, he did go to OW for a reason. So you need to fix that. Google, LOVE LANGUAGES, MARS/VENUS ON A DATE. And have him listen to the audiobook, WHAT WOMAN WANT MEN TO KNOW, In fact listen together. Get some SBT couseling, if you can't fix yourself.

[FreeBird0120]

I will try that Poepad...thank you for your suggestions...

Not a good day today. There is really no particular reason...it just seems like things will be going great between me and my H, and then all of a sudden for no apparent reason, I get this overwhelming horrible gut feeling that he's talking to OW...why does this happen??

I hate these spontaneous feelings of doubt, distrust and ugliness...

I know I can't act on a "gut feeling", so I have to stifle these feelings and deal with them by myself.

Feeling completely lost right now...

[MynameisMZ]

When I was helping S17 do a psych homework assignment we had to go over PTSD. I had every single symptom. The one that sticks out right now is that you believe the "bad thing" is still happening.

What messed me up was that I have a strong intuition, so my sense of real and not real was really compromised and incredibly confusing. Why was I having these hits? Was it real or imagined? Why would I imagine it? The PTSD made things seem clearer.

BTW, PTSD used to be just be assigned to combat vets, but they have expanded the realm of who it affects.