new to this..

[learning2listen]

New Member

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 8 Im not sure if i I am doing something wrong, but I havent had any response to my posts in the newcomers forum.
So here is my newest question, it really has been a question the whole time, my h is still wearing his wedding ring. I am not sure if it is because he is trying not to hurt me more, or just not want the conversation with others explaining the end of the marriage. He has said to me the relationship is over. not face to face but via text. when we talk on the phone he seems like he is not ready to end the marriage, when we are face to face he says its not over yet. But he doesnt live at home, he sees our d once a week, and I do not hear from him unless its about our d. i think i am out of sight out of mind to him.
_________________________
m 40
h 43
d 16 (prev marriage)
d 8

[workinghardguy]

Something I've found to be useful so far is the application of "Occam's Razor" to most situations with the WAS. If you haven't heard of Occam's Razor, it's a 14th century English concept that basically says, when faced with two competing hypothesis, take the one that requires the fewest assumptions.

Therefore... in this case I would take the assumption that he's just plain confused. That confusion is exhibited in the wedding rings, the mixed messaging, and the behavior.

It's not that it's over or it's not over... that he loves you or doesn't. It's that in a period of a day he may move between all of those places multiple times.

This is what I see in my wife. One day we're friends. The next day an arctic front moves through our house. The next day we ML. The next day she sends me a text or message with love notes. WTF? Seriously, how can all this go on? Can we just stick with a message? Could you just despise me or love me or hate me or care about me? But just one please, this multiple thing is insanity.

Yet it is what it is. Our WAS have a lot going on. Not that I'm defending them, but I am trying to put myself in my W's shoes. She's got all these friends and family who think I'm a pretty good guy and H. What will they think if she walks away? Then there's the kids... what will they think? She hates being alone and hates it when I'm gone. What will that be like? But she isn't in love with me and doesn't desire me... so why bother?

All of these roll together into one person. They pull them here and there and we get to ride the ride with them. Aren't we lucky?

This is the detachment part.. a part I will fully admit I suck at and have to work harder at. The part that says, "my life is my life and will be just fine regardless of the drama and insanity you choose to bring." So, WAS, bring your A-game of drama it won't matter one bit to me because (to steal a line from Stuart Smalley) "I'm good enough, smart enough, and doggone people like me."

[learning2listen]

I think confused is the most likely. If i take everything that has been said and not just the negative or the positive, I think he expected more out of his life by this point and is depressed that we have basically nothing. I was financially sound when we met and his income was not needed to maintain the household, therefore when he decided to quit a job he could, now that I do not make as much money and the kids need more I have taken on a second job. He says he was always alone so why not just be alone. He does not take responiblity well, but yet he feels like he does. My career issues have been a huge blow to my ego, and I know I seem insecure.. he does not like that. Also all he seems to do is work and sleep. He sleeps so much it seems unhealthy. 4 years ago we got into a huge fight, my friend and business partner was there and called the police, she was worried about my safety and he was arrested. He says that he resents me for this, even though I stood by his side through the entire ordeal. His parents had to pay for the legal fees and I think this embarassed him. He has said he trusts noone. I didnt realize this included me. until now. I have had no contact with this former friend and have given my h no reason to believe I would betray him however his mind works different and if he has it in his head that I was the enemy I dont think I will ever change that. Right before he dropped the bomb on me I had heard that he had an affair with one of my other friends during the whole court ordeal. I didnt believe it, but I did tell him about it, he said right as he was leaving that, that was the straw that broke the camels back.. Another one of my friends ruining his life. But why is he angry with me, and is that really the problem or is it the financial problem? Why wont he just talk to me? I am so confused? does our family mean nothing? do all the years and good words between us get negated for something one of my friends did? I am lost!~

[25yearsmlc]

here is what I posted to you on your first thread...please read it again b/c I still need the questions I asked, answered. So do you.

Also can you try to write in shorter paragraphs? Just easier to read.

Here is my first post to you from the "piecing" forum...

Learning2

fyi since this is the "Piecing" forum, (for marriages piecing back together) it's unfortunately probably not the right place to post yet, but there are other reasons the delays happen in seeing your posts.

Is the delay what bothered you? It's a long wait when you start out, and you can read about the "moderator's" info on this site so you can better understand it. I'd suggest newcomers forum for now but keep the name and then just have one thread so we can find you.

You wrote:

Not sure if this is the right thread to post on but here goes..I have been married for 11 years, 2 children (one from previous marriage) My H said he wanted d two months ago and we separated. He has said this in the past but never left.



SO this time he left and is living elsewhere, correct?

What are his SPECIFIC complaints about marriage to you? I hear that there are financial problems (join the club and divorce NEVER helps money problems) but what is it he says about YOU?

That's where we can start b/c you can only control YOU.

You also wrote:

He texts me that the relationship is over, and I will survive, he has made his decision and will live with it, but then says he is not mentally right, right now, says he is in a dark place. says he was miserable, unhappy and sad....
We have had financial issues for the last few years which he is not used to.



Does he believe divorce will help this or does he make any connection at all? IOW is he just complaining in general or does he believe YOU are the financial problem?

you also wrote:

When we talk on the phone he says he is not ready to call it quits and doesnt want to make a rash decision.

Okay...so don't push him towards a decision then. This is VERY early in the process.
Your other concerns center around how he seems possibly to have deserted your oldest child b/c he's not related by blood, correct? You said h seems lost in that particular r....


Meaning he's deserting the oldest? Or doesn't know? Or what? And does the oldest have a r with their biological father? Invite that in more if you can.

NO kid needs to feel abandoned by two dads...which also leads me to tell you that YOU must be present for your kids now more than ever.

Don't fall apart, at least not in front of them or your h. Stay strong and figure this out. Do you have the Div Busting or Divorce Remedy books? Get them asap and read them...the DR one is a bit better I think. Please, read that asap so this site can help you the most.

you said:


I really dont know where to start. at first i begged and he just was cruel via text message, but face to face he was more optimistic. now I dont contact him unless to do with visitation of our d. He is also Step dad to my oldest which he seems lost as to what to do there.

I am so confused, i do not want a d, I didnt know this in the beigining but I know I want to work this out.



get the book and read all you can. Read the threads here. I'd say you should aim your search at the depression threads or chapters, and the midllife crisis parts, and the WalkAway Husbands...but don't get bogged down in whether this is a mid life crisis or he's a walkway h, b/c they call for pretty much the same course of action from YOU. And too much time is wasted on diagnosing the Walk away spouse instead of working on YOU, the LBS...

And btw why'd your first marriage end? Where's the bio dad for your first child? Has this h been a good dad before all this?

And what do YOU think the issues in this marriage are?

Why'd he want to leave before, and why didn't he?

What event, if any, triggered him leaving this time, and what did HE SAY at the time?
[color:#CC0000]
Bottom line and this is KEY for you to grasp....asap...is that

HE will have to believe marriage to you now and from this day forward

can be different and better than before.

That requires change on YOUR END...so, what are YOU doing to work on YOU and being the best partner YOU can be.

The good news is you DO have control over YOU...so you can work on that.

I know you're hurt and probably angry and for good reason.

But this site is about finding solutions that help you to save your marriage. It's "solution based" so even though you can and should come here to vent,

also remember to do what helps the marriage, and NOT what hurts it. Simple enough but not easy.

Losing your temper hurts it. Helps no one, except maybe you for 23 seconds...

when we have more info we'll be better able to help you.

good luck!


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[learning2listen]

yes we are living in different houses now, he is renting a room from one of his employess.
he says he left because we could not agree on what changes needed to be made finacially. now other reasons seem to be popping up.
He says he is in a dark place due to all the stress at work and our relationship ending.
My first h had an affair and I divorced him, we are good friends now and he is active in our d's life. does that answer the questions?

[learning2listen]

oh and as for saying he wanted to leave before and didnt but did this time, i dont know the answer to that. That is one I am still trying to figure out. He says he made his decision and now he has noone to blame but himself. however financially he will be fine because i have all the debt, not him. he wont face that until the divorce.

[25yearsmlc]

oh and as for saying he wanted to leave before and didnt but did this time, i dont know the answer to that. That is one I am still trying to figure out. He says he made his decision and now he has noone to blame but himself. however financially he will be fine because i have all the debt, not him. he wont face that until the divorce.

just a quick question...he thinks by leaving you that only you will have to pay off the debt? What debt is this that is ALL yours? (School loans?)

Are you in a state that divides the assets and debts equally?

You probably ought to see a L just so you know your rights. Not to DO something but to KNOW what you face.

Don't tell HIM what you learn...it's for you.

It's empowering to know that you are not trapped or what the trade offs are with your choices. That's all I'm saying. Do whatever you do, with your eyes wide open.

And what are those 180s and GAL activities? I can't stress them enough b/c they'll do more for your point of view and your Pos Mental Attitude than anything else I know.

AND that makes you more calm, less angry, less confrontational, more of the woman you want to become.

Good luck!

[learning2listen]

I have spoke to a lawyer and he is responsible for the debt also, he doesnt know I spoke to L. Kind of keeping that to myself. As for the Gal.. just barely starting, mostly I have been focusing on my girls.. making sure they know we will be ok. Its funny, tonight i realized I cant control what he does or doesnt do, but I can control me. I can decide to make me the best me possible or I can wallow.. I choose making the best me possible. After all, that is the women he fell in love with.

[25yearsmlc]

I have spoke to a lawyer and he is responsible for the debt also, he doesnt know I spoke to L. Kind of keeping that to myself.

that's good news and I expected that unless it was for your education. I'm also glad you are keeping that to yourself. He'll be disappointed to learn that info but keep it to yourself as best you can. If he throws it in your face, try still, to keep it to yourself but you can always suggest that he learn what his legal rights are.

For my h, it was a real eye opener. (Sorry h, but I sure as hell would know what I was risking BEFORE I risked losing my family-the MLCers don't think that way).


As for the Gal.. just barely starting, mostly I have been focusing on my girls.. making sure they know we will be ok.


Good for you. THIS^^^ IS so crucial. I asked my kids (d's only at home) what their biggest fear was when h left. They both said "Divorcing=moving" and I said "no it does not."

I knew we could stay here for 2 years so d22 could finish high school, and that was a HUGE relief to her. (Still here btw).

My mc said to stress to the kids what will remain the same for them no matter what else happens, like if you know you'll remain in the same area, then they'll have the same friends, same school, same neighborhood, whatever it is that you know you can keep the same for them.

Also, when the kids asked me if we were divorcing, I followed my DB coach's advice which was to NOT TO SAY YES UNLESS I was POSITIVE we were, and I wasn't positive. Neither are you.

So when they asked, I'd say something like
"I sure hope not, b/c - we've been together a long time/he's the love of my life/I've loved him a long time...etc."

Make your d's the priority for you now AND taking care of yourself. You are modelling for them what a strong dignified woman does, when she faces betrayal and a blow to her heart. Taking care of yourself is part of caring for THEM now...make sense?

Its funny, tonight i realized I cant control what he does or doesnt do, but I can control me. I can decide to make me the best me possible or I can wallow.. I choose making the best me possible. After all, that is the women he fell in love with.

This is great stuff^^^. Thess are really Good insights. Read them again when you have a darker moment (and you will). But you'll also have light optimistic moments. Savor them and remember your hard learned lessons.

I don't have a "diagnosis" of your h but he sure sounds like a mix of depression and a touch of MLC. Have you read the Div Busting books or the Div Remedy books? There are chapters on both and you have to read them asap.

Seriously, you'll get so much more out of this site when you have read it.

I'd back way off of pursuing him at all right now. It's pressure. Seriously, don't try to convince him that he's actually happy OR that he ought to be

or that he can be if only he returns...NONE OF THAT WILL WORK/

you cannot convince someone that secretly they are happy but didn't know it

OR that they "should" be happy.

IF they don't think they're happy, they're not. He will have to find it in himself. And with some distance (time and space) he may well realize that alone, he's just as miserable if not more so.

He may look into himself, and not others, as the cause and maybe he'll get some help. (OR stop blaming YOU at least. That's a start)

IF I were you, I'd act "resigned" to his unfortunate choice but with the inner knowledge that YOU and the girls will be FINE thank you very much.

AND I Would not take on any responsibility for HIS emotions or his viewpoint.

Let him see who he fell in love with. You can keep him informed of upbeat family moments (d's team won, d got an "A" on her test, etc....or the downsides if his role as a parent is required.)

Do NOT guilt him with how much they miss him and how hurt they are. That's a form of pursuit using the kids. And It will backfire.

(I find that with men in particular, Guilt converts into anger at the source. So don't go there.)

Give him something to miss and keep the road home, paved and smooth. It'll be hard enough for him to come home as it is.

That's the other reason guilting him will fail. Makes it harder for him to come home b/c the last thing he wants to face is disappointment in the faces of his d's.

(Also, tell as few people as YOU NEED to tell to be your support system only. NOT to pressure him. Not to manipulate or suggest, etc...just who YOU need to tell and you can trust not to be indiscreet.)

OTOH do not tell the d's what to feel or what to say. Let Them have their r's with him and let him face the natural results of their feelings...back out of that as much as you can. TBH, I think the closer he feels to them, the better it bodes for the m.

So you give him something to miss at home, you show him you can and are changing for the better, you are not showing him any anger even if you feel it inside...vent here or elsewhere but not at him or in front of the girls.

What is it that you are working on in YOU? I'm asking what you believe YOU can work on? I heard you say you took some ego blows when you lost your job

(been there, done that and it does not feel good. My h also had an issue with that when I lost my job. Once in the middle of the MLC, he told me that he thought I'd "be in the senate by now." Seriously...so I guess I let him down...and at some level I did see his point but, I refuse to accept his projections onto me. I NEVER said I'd be in the senate; he simply thought I should go into politics and forgot to tell me he expected that...)

Once h left the home for real, as in 3000 miles away and was on his own, it didn't take that long for him to sort of look up and say "where is everyone?"

We were here. He was there. Took a year of him working and changing to get me to try it up there after so much resistance. D22 had left for college and d14 was then prepared for a ONE year try out. We tried it, the job for h was NOT what he hoped for and his mother got terminal cancer so we were able to leave graciously without fanfare but h had already said he "made a huge mistake"...

A year later we went to Retrovaille and the rest of the underlying issues I worried about, seemed to be addressed. Down the road if you two reconcile, I think that would be a good activity.

For now I see a lot of hope. Seriously. Don't notice the ring thing. Like it but dont' notice it, and the fewer people he tells the better it is for both of you. The more he tells the more he cements his version of events. So if he's wearing the ring that's good.

You control YOU and you let go of what he does and try hard not to obsess about what he's saying/planning/thinking/feeling okay?

You have to let go of that. It's something you have no control over anyhow,
so you may as well release the illusion of control gracefully, okay?

Embrace what you do have control over, which is you. Spend your energy on creating your new life and your kids' lives with, or without h but knowing you'll be happy no matter which.

Believe it. It'll be true. Your happiness is your responsibility and no one else's.

Live that, own it, and teach it to your d's. You'll all benefit.


And you will GAL...and see that someday, with or without him, you'll be happy. When this sinks into you, This knowledge will emanate from you and he will see the reality that he is losing way more than you are. I mean that 100%.

Realistically, what's the horrible nightmare you face? Um, he never comes back and acts super happy without you and without the kids. That's not truly realistic but it's the worst case scenario. Okay...sooo

You'll move to a smaller place, pay YOUR bills and maybe take some hits to your FICO score and maybe downsize and yada yada. So what? Join half the nation...I mean, we're in a serious recession. You'll still have a roof over your head and the kids and you will still rent chick flicks and have food in the frig, correct?

So, He'll be alone, not you. AND IF HE DATES....try to realize that it's a symptom of him, his problems or the marriage issues he didn't mention but it's NOT you.

Of course you'll take it personally, yet I'm telling you not to.

I dated OMs at one point while we were separated...and mostly, I felt more sure of my m to h than before I dated the OMs. I met good men, and some were attractive. But none of them were as smart as h, and as handsome and as secure with my education or IQ or prior income, or as funny, or as like minded. Still It was great for the ego and all and I now know that there are good men in my age group who are attractive and interesting...

My point is, even dating OM wasn't the threat to the m that you might think...
In some ways it was an enhancer, if you KWIM.

Oddly, when he realizes that he's not going to get out of the debt by divorcing, he might be inclined to working on things more.

PLease Don't take that effort (only after realizing the expense involved in divorce) as an insult to you. I believe that as long as the work is put into a m, at both ends -eventually---then I don't care what the original motivation was. Understood?

You will get thru this and on the other side, you'll be a better woman for it.

Keep posting! And...

In case you don't have the "37 Rules" for newcomers, here they are to help you navigate the next few months. GOOD LUCK!!

RULES FOR WHEN YOU GET "THE BOMB"….

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[learning2listen]

Today is a very sad day for me...Im finding it hard not to break down at my desk, There is no reason for this, nothing has happened, no communication what so ever!

I decided after his last cruel text message to stop texting, talking etc... unless it was to do about d's..

Well apparently, he is doing the same thing. I am finding it so hard to believe he hasnt tried to contact me, even if to just check on kids. He hasnt contacted our d either.

I have a fear that by not contacting him at all he wont have the courage to want to try. He will think I am better off without him. I keep hearing his words, "i will survive, so will you and so will the kids.."

it has only been 3 days with no communication but i am really struggling. Why is he doing this? Maybe I am foolish and there is someone else? I really dont know why he would lie about it? He told me he doesnt love himself so how can he love anyone else? I just know that I was a pinnacle role in his life and now I am nothing.

Part of me thinks he is testing me, I know he has trust issues with me, I have given him no reason for this, except I take pretty good care of myself, I get alot of attention, however Idont act on it, I kind of think he is seeing if given enough rope will I hang myself? the thought of anyone else in my life makes me want to throw up! How can he not know that?

I am tired of the emptiness.. tired of being sad, tired of it consuming my every thought. Maybe i need medication... ha ha.