I was shocked by being welcomed to the world of a WAW in March 2011 (three sons, 24 yrs married) although she still lives in the house in another room. This is the hardest things I have ever been thru and DB'ing is a constant painful effort!
I highly suspect an EA, possible PA. So far she has lied about a weekend away with her friends but actually met another guy secretly (by the way it's my cousin), taken overnight trips to his house and had an unexplainable birth control product found by my youngest son (age 13). Also, someone sent me some emails from him to her that show his affection although don't indicate anything to prove a PA, and about 400+ secret phonecalls between the two.
My WAW tells me that the birth control was purchased because she was mad at me when she thought someone was pursuing me (way off base and has never ever occured in our entire marriage, 100& faithful). She tells me that he is only a friend and in her current state needs someone to talk to. BTW, she has admitted her current psychological upheaval to be bigger than just her marriage to me and actually encompasses her entire life (lots of childhhod trauma). She is seeing a psychiatrist and we are going to a marriage counselor. She is telling me she isn't sure why this is happening to her now, and that she does not know what the outcome will be, nor what will happen to us.
I am engaging in all DB'ing methods and at least see that she has not left (she originally was saying that we were done forever). I really hate this because as she goes thru this, and I support it, it's as if I am somehow invisible to her in every way where I wasn't before. I love her to death and will stick with her all the way, however I really wonder if I am being played all along re: her EA, poss PA with my cousin.
I am asking all you wonderful people for feedback. Everyone around me including my sons think she is cheating and I should start over elsewhere. Given the evidence I described above do you think I'm the biggest chump on earth? To think of her sharing her soul with him and not me is so brutal, so brutal I can hardly breathe when exposed to it (every day).
Have any of you been thru something like this? Please share some words of encouragement, or if you think I'm being an idiot to let this go on let me know! Thanks to all you wonderful people.
Believe none of what she says and 50% of what she does.
I would not ask her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your W as controlling or pressure.
GAL.
Detach. - The single most important thing you can do
You have been given a GIFT The gift of TIME. - Use is wisely.
Sorry you're here, but it is a good place to vent, journal and get very wise advice.
I discovered my W's EA in March, also, and spent the next 5 months in the same house. It was difficult. Like you I was invisible. I made huge mistakes during this time: I snooped, I insisted on R talks, I was either miserable or angry. She moved out in August and is now living with the OM.
I tell you this not to thoroughly depress you, but to 1) warn you against doing what your emotions drive you to do, and 2) take the advice you will be given on this forum very seriously.
There is no guarantee you will save your marriage. There is also no guarantee you will not. Right now you do have time on your side. Your W wants space between her and you. Give it to her. She is going to do what she wants. Do not try to control her or monitor her actions.
You will need every ounce of strength to DB. Here are "The 37 Rules". Read them, keep them somewhere you can refer to them and do not waver from them. Any of them. I did not pay attention to them, and I lost.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had anawakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
H 56 W 48 D27,S21 SS25 SS22 Severely autistic M(#2 for both) 9 1/2 yrs. "I've never loved you" 3/7/2011 Separated 8/7/2011 BITS
Hi Cadet. Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. Yes, I initially made all the mistakes someone makes in this situation (pressure, pursuing, etc.), but I have read the DB book. It has helped me find a way to deal with this by using the LRT. It is sooo hard to do! I do need to GAL, and detach, and yes it appears I do have time on my side, albeit crushingly painful time. Is there anything I can do for you in return?
Telemark - it is so incredibly kind of you to take the time to reply, and include all of theses incredible "rules" of LRT. I have to say that I made all of the mistakes you advise against, but have read Michele's book, am taking the coaching, and working these rules you share here. God, it it hard to do and I pray I still have enough time left for this to turn around! I always thought I was tough until I met this challenge. I have learned that I may have physically tough but initially had no emotional toughness as I went through this. Suprisingly, and with help from good people like you, I am finding an inner core of strength. I can even step oputside of my pain and see how my W is suffering in this. Tough to do though, when the love of my life treats me like a leper that she never loved. I will follow your advise to the letter and see where this goes. You are very kind to help. I hope I can return the favor somehow. Thank you.
Telemark - also wanted to say that I am still confused about how soemone can end up feeling and acting like my W is. It's mind boggling to see someone turn around so much.
You know, upon reading your advice I realize that I am potuing my way through this and defintiely need to get a good attitude fast!
Seeking answers - thank you so much for your reply and kindness.
Background - I am 53, W 45, both on 1st marriage and have been together all of our adult lives. Three sons - 24, 21 and 13. Basically had kids right away.
W background - molested as a toddler, her Dad (and love of her life) dies at age 8, mother left with 7 kids to raise so very little support for my W. She learns to keep everything bottled up inside. Spends teen years being promiscous, drunk and addicted to diet pills. She is a seriously beautiful woman who was able to attract any man she ever wanted. Gets engaged to another guy, pregnant and has an abortion. At 18 meets me, works for me and we become great friends. At 20 moves from her Mom's house to mine and has our first child on her 21st birthday.
Marriage years - the tough stuff was that W had a complete inabilty to trust so very tough for me all along. Also, W had a problem with creating a double standard in that she could have any male friend she wanted, even flirtateous but could not give me the trust I needed. In addition ,while being a loving, generous woman, and incredibly loving Mom, she never really would accept adult responsibilities in many ways. She withdrew over and over whenever the world of adult responsibilities were there. She had a weird self loathing and incredibly negative body image problem.
Marriage problems - I would often be angry about her mistrust, double standards, lack of financial understanding or effort, inabilty to communicate, and drinking too much at times. These problems were always there but the great stuff kept our family going. However, her issues kept growing inside, as well as her unhappiness.
She is basically saying we are incompatible. Her biggest complaint is that I did not listen to her, that I would take over the conversation and overwhelm her. There's some truth to this in that we were polar opposites in that I was the breadwinner of the family, and would see any problem as an issue to be fixed immediately. It was my nature to go at problems directly to fix them, while she would hide away from any issue.
Basically she has reached the end of her rope, is burnt out, depressed, unsure of herself in every aspect of her life, not sure what she wants (including H and kids), wants to be alone and not have to answer to anyone. She is seeing a psychiatrist and is on an antianxiety medication. This has been going on since March and I see her getting worse.
She is saying that she never really made any decisions in her life, basically let things happen, and that she has f'd up her life. She never really did had the normal formative years that many of us do - college, independence, freedom as a single person, etc. I can see how with all of this going on in her head and that it has reached critical mass, she needs to break off and figure it all out.
It's just so awful to do when my W has written me off as a human being, never mind 24 yr marriage partner. It's so hard not to be a part of her life anymore, nor maybe forever. I'm doing my best though, but as sad as humanly possible while doing it!
Rick, my heart goes out to you, your W, and family.
Has anyone mentioned anything about PTSD pertaining to your wife?
You said she was molested as a toddler. Does she remember anything about it?
Does your W have a job outside the home? How is she handling household responsibilities at this time? Has she spoken about how she would manage financially if she or you were to leave?
You said you feel as her depression, uncertainty, as getting worse. Do you think that it would help if she got her dose of the AD adjusted or maybe another type? Do you feel as though her psychiatrist is not helping her?
It's great that you have recognized your part in this. Are you able to talk with her at all without her spewing?
It sounds as if you're on the right track in handling all this, although I know what a big burden you're carrying. Chin up. I know it doesn't seem like it right now but it does get better.
Seeking answers - thank you again for your wonderful reply. It means the world to me at a time when I am really on my own.
PTSD has been mentioned by some professionals and by freinds and family. My W is massively defensive about this and regards any speculation, advise offered, or caring as a conspiracy. It is very difficult to speak to her about it and her pushback is about as angry as anyone can get. There is a history of psyche issues in her family and some members were even hospitalized for a time, but she really believes that this has no bearing on her situation and she tells me her psychiatrist does not think she is bipolar or anything like that, which some of her family are. She tells me her psychiatrist has not made any particular diagnosis and this really frustrates her because she can't seem to make any headway, nor feel better about her life at all. I am not sure of her psychiatrist as to how effective he is, but due to confidentiality I have only what my W tells me.
As far as the molestation goes, she has an idea of who it may have been and has told me who. I suspect she could be correct. Her memories are pretty vague though, but she does remember the strength and depth of the horrible feelings about it. Believe me, I have been the recipient of all the symptoms of someone who has had this trauma, as well as her being stuck at age 8 mentally from when her Dad died. She has frankly admitted all of this as part of what is going on now, but as time goes on she downplays her childhood trauma and places the blame for her unhappiness more on me. She does tell me what her negative feelings are, and I have looked long and hard at my actions and feel that she is really not justified. For example, she will see my unhappiness and her not trusting me as a reason for her feeling bad about us but will not discuss what is behind it all. So basically I get told over and over about her bad feelings but she will not discuss any issue in depth. If I try to reason, it pushes her further away. It's tough because I don't want to agree with her when its not justified and if I keep quiet she feels that she is right and we are not compatible, but if I try to talk about it she says this is evidence that we can't get along. So, my listening to her with the focus on her, as well as my talking it out both bring about a negative reaction.
My W does have a career outside of the home which she took up again after years at home with the kids. She enjoys it and is very good at it. As far as her role at home, she has pretty much checked out. She is not contributing and spends almost all of her time in the room she is staying in, and most of that time on the phone with my cousin, an EA. My sons are so angry at her and want me to make her leave. I don't know what is the best answer, but I do think that her being in the safety of our home is still the best. I know however that she does not wan to have to answer to anybody and wishes she could be alone. Our economic situation prevents me from supporting two residences if she were to find her own place, and would be very hard for me to support my own house on my own as a single Dad.
She really is very depressed, sad, confused and cannot find peace or answers right now. It is best for me to stay out her way completely because she reacts negatively to me in every way. She is fair though and does say I should do whatever I have to do to be happy. The problem is that when I make moves to GAL, she becomes very untrusting, and there is no real reaon to, yet if I am around too much it is pressure on her.
Thank you so much for your input! You are very kind and this really helps!
