Tim, With me it is not so much the frequency, ( though this is, an issue) it is more about what I feel that I have to go through in order to get there. It is about her unwillingness to seek or take advice. Reading a book is great, like I said before, I got and read "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus", which in my opinion is an excellent book, a book according to Barbara Walters, out sold every book, except the Bible, throughout the 90's. I feel that any one that is, or is ever thinking about getting married should read this book.. However though at times it may seem, that we are married to ourselves, we do have partners. My point in this is, that you could read every book ever published, however if your spouse is unwilling to do the same, it will be to no avail. My wife unlike myself is unwilling to accept any responsibility for our situation. As far as she is concerned, this is my problem, I am the cause, I am the one in the wrong. Therefore until I fix things, until I am done, doing all the changing, she will just sit on the side lines, and wait for the evolution to take place. As I said before I truly have my doubts as to the future of this marriage. Though I know probably better then most that the grass on the other side of the fence is just as dead as it is on your side. My Grandmother was my Grandfathers 5th (Yes fifth ) wife. My mother was wife number one, of five. Divorce is not the answer. Nor is marriage! For that matter I have lately come to the conclusion nor is monogamy, I have tried that for 20 (Twenty ) Years. Had I the chance to do all over again, I would NEVER get married!!!! Life is SOOOO good until you get married. I thank God for my children, and if not for them I would never have stayed. Women are the most beautiful creatures on the face of the planet, and truly a gift for God, UNTIL THEY GET THAT RING!!!! The key here, is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, give a women a ring, and you will be happy for the rest of your life. I will never get a divorce, I will on the other hand get another, and another, and another women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Men we live in a vineyard, yet we are forbidden to taste the grapes or the wine, I for one am going to feast on the vine, I am going to get drunk on the wine, I am going to taste every bottle I can get my hands on. I love my wife very much, but gentlemen love is for suckers, I love my wife, I love my kids, I love my dog, Ilove my car, I love LOVE WOMEN! My marriage my not be the better for it, I on the other hand WILL, get my fill.
starving..please talk to your w about the seriousness of the situation...seeking fullfillment of your needs elswhere is not the answer..you will not be happy you will not find what it is you are truly looking for.
please understand that I am not some woman sticking up for your wife as i am in the same position you are...have told my h how I feel about his low desire and that I will seek elswhere when I get tired of pleasuring myself...
it is a process...
I have more issues in my r than simply the lack of sex but the lack of sex makes the other issues alot harder to deal with.
my h wont read the books I read..barely wants to talk..and only after my threatening a d and actually scheduling an appointment with a lawyer did he open up and talk to me...and become willing to go to a c.
now I don't expect miracles to come from going to a c...and honestly that is only a first step.
if w wont read the books..or they simply go over her head (not meant in an insulting manner..some people just read the words they don't take any of it in...they don't want to reflect) that does not mean that you shouldn't read as much as you can...gain an understanding of yourself...and your w...when you have an understanding of both perspectives it can become easier to have some patience and understanding. and begin to work on the problems.
if you are serious about considering filling your needs with other women then I suggest you nicely let your w know about it and ask for a divorce...there is no way your m will survive doing things that way.
you sound very angry and I don't blame you..hey you live in a vineyard...I am one of the finest glassses of wine (not being cocky but I am a looker) and yet h doesn't want to open that bottle. it frustrates me emensly to leave the house and have other men looking at me in that way...desiring me..when all I want is to be desired by my h..or at least not rejected when I want to be with him. it's a crappy sit to be in...but things can change if your open to it and learn to hear both sides.
read the five love languages by chapman read divorce remedy read the sex starved marriage
don't just read to validate your feelings...read to gain insight to how your w may be seeing things and her feelings.
no one said life would be easy...that is being re-enforced to us the hard way...
how is the rest of your r with w??? do you do things together.. do you share things.. do you talk do you have fun
Quote: ...don't just read to validate your feelings...read to gain insight to how your w may be seeing things and her feelings...
Starving, LL is right. Believe me, I know how it is - I've been there. OTOH, I do believe that love is the answer, and that monogomy can work. In my entire extended family, going back 3 generations, there are only about 3 divorces that I know about. No, these people were not unhappy and unfulfilled, for the most part. I know because I know them. The pain you are feeling is real, but doing what you describe will not make it go away - it'll only mask it for a while, and not very well, I'll bet. In the end, I think it'd be a pretty empty feeling. Not only that, but you would likely do irreperable harm to your marriage. If you truly feel that there's nothing worth saving, wouldn't it be better to simply start discussing the Big D with W? Far more fair. Maybe if it comes to that, she'd be more motivated to read the books.
On the subject of books - I also have read John Gray's books, and I agree he has many valid points, but his books didn't help me any more than they've helped you - and my W read them too. I also read Dr. John Gottman's book, and many others, and none of them helped. We went to counseling for the first time a couple of years ago, and that didn't help. We started seeing a different C last July, and we're still seeing her. She's helped some, but nothing has helped as much as Michele's "The Sex-Starved Marriage." It literally opened our eyes (yes, W's too!). It's a totally new approach. There are different sections addressed to each spouse. One of the messages to the low-drive spouse is along the lines of "You may think that you shouldn't have to make love to your spouse if you don't feel like it, but if you never feel like it, consider how difficult it is for your spouse to remain faithful..." (paraphrasing). I mean really, the book is so full of plain talk and common sense on a subject that until now has been virtually ignored!
The big thing is that if W won't admit there is a problem, and isn't willing to even explore the possibility, then you may not have much choice - but don't give up until every possibility is explored. Think about all the cool family stuff you might miss down the road, or if not missed, it'd be more difficult, like holidays, special events, etc. You'll have grandkids in common - once you're married, you can't ever really be "un-related" again, at least once there's kids.
Anyway, please don't stop posting, and don't give up trying. Even if it doesn't work out in the end, you'll know that you did everything you could.
The book "Sex Starved Marriage" is a very good book however, in it tells "What" you need to do, "The Divorce Remedy" tells "How" to do it. I haven't read "Divorce Busting" yet, but you can believe I will. In the meantime wife is reading SSM. Michele, you are right on the mark. Life can be so good if you only take the time to learn how. For example: My wife and myself are at constant odds about money. She was always nagging about how I spend to much money on "Man Toys", as she refers to it. My point was that what is the sense of having money, if you can't have toys to show for it, you mint as well enjoy it. You know you can't take it with you, type of thinking. My father used to always say "I never saw a hearse towing a U-haul". I didn't only spend money on myself, I would spend it on her and the kids as well. For our anniversary I bought her a new wedding set, thinking she would be very pleased. SHE GOT MAD. She said that her old one was the one she got married with and that she had no use for a new one. She said that it was too big, and that it would rip her surgical glove. That I had spent to much money on it etc. The other thing that was always a battle, was my car, a two setter convertible sports car. When I got the car she complained that it was to small, I paid to much, that it was impractical, She would always complain if I wanted to take the top off, you name it, she hates my car. I would always say "why would any one buy a car that the top comes off, then never take it off. She forgets that when we were dating, and ever since, other then a classic Caddilac, that we still have in the garage, every car was a convertible two setter. That's what I like. If we want to go any where with the family we would take her car, or as she hates when I call it a "TRUCK" (SUV)
To get to the point, I learned some things that made a big change, (AND NO I AM NOT GETTING A BIGGER CAR) She had the day off Monday, The two of us went on a date, We went in my car. When she finally came out she found that I did not take off the top, which unless it is raining is something I NEVER do, even if it looks like it may rain latter, as it also has a canves top that I can put up. She got in the car and said "Are we going to go or what", I pulled out of the drive. I noticed she had this bewildered look on her face. When we were about a block away for the house, she finally asked,"Arent you going to take the top off"? I told her that her hair looked to good to have it blown in the wind. At the first light she leaned over and gave me a kiss.
As for the money thing I just got a promotion at work with a $3. 75 per hr raise. When we stopped to eat, I gave her my check book, and all the credit cars, except for the American Express. ( American Express, you must pay off the balance at the end of the month, so you can't get to carried away with it) I told her that I would spend only the raise, as pocket money, and that she, will for now on be in charge of the money, and that if I need more that I would ask her first. What a different person she has become. I changed, so she changed. Concentrate on the solution rather then the problem. It works. I know that we still have a long way to go, however I feel that at least now, we have a road map to follow Thanks Michele Working on not Starving in Florida
While you are a W deprived of attention, I am a H deprived of attention; I think it is something I am doing, and as you are a woman, I'd like your advice; maybe I can return the favor.
Good Luck
LGB, just a student...
"The only thing I can guarantee, in this and any situation, is SOMETHING WILL OCCUR; bad, good, or whatever something WILL occur! Will your actions help or hurt? Sadly, you'll never know!" --ME--
Quote: Men we live in a vineyard, yet we are forbidden to taste the grapes or the wine, I for one am going to feast on the vine, I am going to get drunk on the wine, I am going to taste every bottle I can get my hands on. I love my wife very much, but gentlemen love is for suckers, I love my wife, I love my kids, I love my dog, I love my car, I love LOVE WOMEN! My marriage my not be the better for it, I on the other hand WILL, get my fill.
Well, you'll find out whether that fills you over time, it will take many years. There's short-term fulfillment and long-term fulfillment, what you choose depends a lot on your goals.
I agree with LostLove. If you're "not willing to starve any longer", no matter what it means for the marriage, then you value that more highly than the marriage and the marriage is very unlikely to last. It's better to be clear about that and separate cleanly. I can completely identify with your frustration (Bolete's background ), and I've been very close to making the same decision several times. I'm certainly in no position to judge you, and I wish you the best in your life. But choose wisely, our choices have consequences.
I'm starving too. But my wife is expressing love in other ways, and our marriage is really worth keeping. That's why I'm continuing to "keep on keeping on".
While you are a W deprived of attention, I am a H deprived of attention; I think it is something I am doing, and as you are a woman, I'd like your advice; maybe I can return the favor.
Good Luck
lgb,
I don't have a clue WHY. Tired of trying to figure out the WHY. Tired of trying to place blame upon myself. Tired of h not having any reasoning. Tired of it all. Maybe I should just be like everyone else..run off and fulfill my needs elswhere and when I get caught blame h and then leave him. Seems to be what everyone else is doing or planning to do so wtf?
No I cannot do that...it's too self serving.
I don't think there are any answers and even when there are answers they only seem to lead to more questions.
lgb and LL: I also have absolutely no clue why this is happening. Do you ever get in the car and think about just driving? No destination, just toward something that might be better? I went food shopping this AM and caught myself thinking most of the way "why don't I just keep going" AND I probably have a good 8 hours until any notices I am missing. Why the 8 hours? It's about the time they would figure out their was no dinner on the table!! GL Katie
Quote: lgb and LL: I also have absolutely no clue why this is happening. Do you ever get in the car and think about just driving? No destination, just toward something that might be better? I went food shopping this AM and caught myself thinking most of the way "why don't I just keep going" AND I probably have a good 8 hours until any notices I am missing. Why the 8 hours? It's about the time they would figure out their was no dinner on the table!! GL Katie
Why Georgia I am driving up 85 in the kind of morning that lasts all afternoon I’m just stuck inside the gloom
4 more exits to my apartment but I am tempted to keep the car in drive and leave it all behind
cause I wander sometimes about the outcome Of a still verdictless life am I living it right am I living it right am I living it right why, why Georgia, why
rent a room and I fill the spaces with wood and places to make it feel like home but all I feel’s alone
it might be a quarter life crisis or just the stirring in my soul either way
I wonder sometimes about the outcome of a still verdictless life am I living it right am I living it right am I living it right why, why Georgia, why
so what so I’ve got a smile on It’s hiding the quiet superstitions in my head
don’t believe me don’t you dare believe me when I say I’ve got it down
everybody is just a stranger but that’s the danger in going my own way I guess it’s a price I have to pay still everything happens for a reason is no reason not to ask yourself if you are living it right
are you living it right are you living it right why, why Georgia, why
