GALing and Boundaries with XH

[kml]

Antonia -
I'm a physician, and I kept that information off of my online dating profile - it does tend to intimidate guys.

But once I am in contact or meet a guy, I always tell them the truth. And I've been fortunate enough to meet guys who actually like smart women - they ARE out there. So don't give up hope.

Here's a new band for you to listen to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgdxlhbwBPo

Or - if you like something a little more punk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbQ43sFDQTM

Or - southern blues rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpyeX-A_FpQ

All new bands I've seen in the last year

[AJM]

Yikes. Let me set the record straight for just a cotton-picking minute. I LIKE SMART WOMEN. I do NOT like stupid women.

My ex is a dentist. Graduated and divorced me about the same time. But whatever...

My point is that not all men dislike or are intimidated by smart women. Perhaps more on the dating sites do, but I find that I don't meet people that have similar intersts on those sites.

I tried one for a little while. I found that no fun. I found that instead I go to meetup.com events and meet more interesting people. I've met lawyers, doctors, home makers, managers, advertising execs, mechanical engineers, and so on. Some I'm only friends with. Ohters? We hit it off for a while. One of the smartest and I dated for a long while. She's great, but it didn't work out for me. We met at a running event, not online.

Really Antonia, if you ask me, you need to meet people with similar interests. To do that, you need to get out and do the things you like to do. That's where you'll meet somebody worth talking to. Online is fine, but you'll kiss a lot of frogs if you ask me People online tend to lie more often than not and the criteria are so two-dimensional.

And of course your mileage may vary.

You are not a difficult person Antonia. You may be putting a certain "vibe" off to people you meet. I know a friend of mine who is very smart was wondering why guys weren't hitting on her. We talked and I had to point out to her that she wasn't approachable. What was happening is that guys would start to hit on her and she would give them a death stare. Or no time at all. She had her mind going one direction when these guys would approach her and she would miss the signals.

She's great. Really. We're great friends and I think I owe her a drinking binge now that I think about it. Her other friends (gal pals) wouldn't drink Tequila with her so she asked me if I would take her out to drink Tequila shots. I like people like that, but it wasn't always that way with her. Initially she tried to brush me off. I don't pay attention to negative vibes She still laughs about how we met because she was pushing me away and I didn't take no for an answer. Not all men are like that, but many might be. (I haven't been hit on by a guy in many years and prefer to keep it that way).

Smart women are fun and sexy. Stupid women are either acting like somebody else (not sexy) or are no fun to talk to after the initial hello.

Be you Antonia. Let yourself shine through. The rest will follow.

There are tons of fun things to do in that neck of the woods. I don't live that far from that area and can assure you there are plenty of great people on this coast.

AJ

[AntoniaB]

Hey Beatrice, I was thinking the same thing too...that when I'm really ready, the opportunity will probably just fall into my lap...I still have a lot of work to do writing this book, and part of me does think that this is God's or the universe's or "whatever's" way of saying that the book is the most important part of my life right now and so nothing has transpired because being distracted might not help. I have enough finished now and am tied to it emotionally enough that I actually feel a sense of urgency that I finish, which sounds odd, but there was a time when I really thought it didn't matter if I quit and broke my contract.

kml thanks for the music links; I will definitely check them out! I probably could just put education on my profile instead of college prof. It's not a lie...it's just not specific. Like putting "health professional" down might sound less intimidating than "physician." But then again, if I can't be up front, because it scares a guy, then that's probably not the kind of guy I want in my life anyway. My XH always felt "lesser" than me because he was "just a lowly hs teacher" (HIS WORDS, not mine) I always made less than he did (My college is really tiny, private, and my starting salary in 1999 was 27k, if you can believe that). I think to some extent that my XH choosing a very young OW who taught the same subject as me but who taught in his hs says a lot...clearly in terms of work experience, she and I do a lot of the same thing, teach a lot of the same material...in fact, a former student of hers who became my advisee when he came to my college told me that a poster by John Waterhouse in my office was in HER room. But she's on my XH's "level". And yes, this is his problem, not mine. But it's sort of making me think that any guy who is too scared to talk to me on eharmony for this reason is only going to be a guy who later has issues with feelings of inadequacy.

But anyway, AJM, thanks for the advice about meetup groups. My meditation group is a meetup group, and there are men in it, but they're all married, long-term. But I have really enjoyed getting to know them, which has helped me learn how to talk to men in general. I think being married so long I never really talked to men unless I "had" to at work! And of course any day a new single guy could join us. So perhaps what I should do is look around for other meetup groups that might be interesting to me.

When I say I don't get hit on, that may have to do with where I am going in addition to any vibe I'm giving off. I tend to go to this one more "classy" restaurant/bar (classy for DE is probably lowbrow for people in other states, lol) and the clientele, while my age and up, is generally coupled up already.

I have avoided the "meat market" bars, I guess for 2 reasons: I don't want to feel objectified by leering guys undressing me with their eyes, which is what everyone I know says will happen if I go to places like that, and also, I'm kind of afraid that if that does NOT happen, it will shoot my self-esteem WAY down. Isn't that crazy? I don't want to get hit on, but then if I don't it will validate my feelings of invisibility, ha ha.

But the meetup groups sound like the way to go.

And if you're ever in DE, AJM, I'll do shots with you, except I choose vodka ;-)

[goodattitudegirl]

Antonia, beatrice, AJM, and kml,

I have been reading this exchange with great interest. I can totally relate to much of what has been written. I have asked many of these questions myself at various times in my life. My mother was a very capable woman who did much of what needed to be done around the house when I was a girl, so my sister and I grew up thinking this was normal. I don't think I am physically capable of feigning helplessness, although there certainly ARE times when I AM genuinely helpless (for example, I've never changed a car tire).

I was particularly interested in what AJM said about how his female friend gives off a "certain vibe" that probably keeps men from approaching her. Antonia, beatrice, and kml does this apply to you too? I think I have been guilty of this for many years and I think it became worse after I worked in management positions for several years. I find that when I am fatigued or pressed for time I can become quite direct, in the same way that I am with an employee who is taking extra long to grasp something. In addition, I know of at least a few occasions in which I was totally clueless that men were interested in me.

Antonia, as a former university faculty member myself, I think that many times when I told people (men and women who did NOT work in a university setting) what I did for work, they didn't know how to respond because most people don't really know what that entails. There are few sitcoms, or movies, or popular books written about university professors because most people wouldn't find writing books or research grants all day very exciting. Most faculty members have fairly specialized areas of expertise so it can be difficult to engage the average person in a conversation about what that work is.

Antonia, I took a suggestion you made last week about looking ta various meet-up groups for divorced/separated people. (AJM, your post confirmed this as a viable option, so thanks!) I got off my arse and went to a happy hour meet-up for divorced/separated people. I met some nice people and will probably return again. I found it interesting that one of the people there referred to one of the larger meet-up groups for single people as a "meat market", so I think that we just need to screen which meet-ups we want to invest time in. At present, my plan is to do more of this sort of thing. I met XH through online dating and my sense from THAT online dating experience is that many people online (not all people) are either looking to "hook up" $exually or are primed to jump into an exclusive committed dating/sexual R. I guess that I would like to be able to get to know someone in a setting in which they are not putting on an act to impress me............Those are my thoughts this week, but of course they may change in the future...........

GAG

[kml]

I was particularly interested in what AJM said about how his female friend gives off a "certain vibe" that probably keeps men from approaching her. Antonia, beatrice, and kml does this apply to you too?

Hmmmm....good question. I don't think I do (although I probably did in my twenties and didn't know it). Men don't seem to have any problem approaching me these days (my current boyfriend picked me up when I was shopping in a discount store!).

Like you, though, I can be a bit too direct - and too self-sufficient. I think a lot of men like a woman to be more vulnerable - I need to remind myself that it's ok to let a guy see I might need his help sometimes.

Luckily, my first boyfriend after my ex left was a guy who LOVED smart women. (He had a slew of ex-girlfriends who were college professors, successful businesswomen etc.) He never ever made me feel like he was intimidated - it was refreshing.

[AntoniaB]

I used to really give off that vibe, I thought, by not making eye contact with people or not smiling but just sort of looking what I'd call detached or distracted. For at least a month or so now, every time I go anywhere, I really make a point to make eye contact with people, say hello, smile, etc. So I don't feel like I'm giving off that vibe. I was talking about this to Eric and he said maybe now I'm looking TOO eager. I can't win ;-)

I do think that I am in a horrible place geographically to meet men who want smart women. I only have a master's and I'm more educated than most people. Those with master's degrees around here all got them from a school that sprang up pretty suddenly and has a terrible reputation as all but a diploma mill, with classes that have no academic integrity. Entire school administrations around here are run by grads from the same program, which just keeps hiring its own grads as part-time instructors.

I used to be VERY needy and could easily have seen myself asking men for help with things in my yard...you know, "can you come over and lift this load of stone for me?? (batting my eyes...) Well my "princess" persona was the first thing that I worked on to get rid of entirely, as it was the thing that XH criticized me most heavily for. Initially I got rid of it to prove to him that I was tough...but over time it became so empowering to be able to do it all myself and not have to use my feminine wiles to manipulate men into doing things for me, that it really stuck. I would literally hate myself if I were to revert to my old girly girl damsel in distress behavior...and I do think that around here, that's what men want.

Case in point: I've been matched with hundreds of men on eharmony over a 4 months period. ONLY ONE out of at least 500 was from this area. That's a computer saying that there is no compatibility, you know? All objective. I get the most matches from the Philly, Washington DC, or Metropolitan VA areas...2 or more hours away, and not only can I not leave this area because I would commit professional suicide if I did, but I don't WANT to leave my job or home. Not for anyone.

I do feel very doomed to never find anyone. And what eats at me more than anything isn't really the loss of a confidant--because I have loads of friends. It's the loss of physicality. I don't even really mean sex. I mean, holding hands. Getting a hug. Smelling a guy who smells GREAT, up close. My skin just sort of aches for some feeling of touch. I no longer mind if I get bumped by a stranger somewhere. At least it's something. I have a cat who likes to sit above me on the couch and pull my hair and I let her do it..and sometimes she hurts! I let her do it because it's at least a sensation.

I met a woman recently who is best friends with one of my friends. She is attractive and smart and funny as can be. She went 9 and a half years without a date or physical touch after her divorce. Then she had a brief fling, and now it's a few years later and she is still alone and rarely if ever finds anyone to date. And she DOES go out to meat markets, too.

I am so fearful that I'll end up in the same boat. Tomorrow is my 500th day since the bomb. It seems so long, but it also seems so short compared to how long it might be before someone ever holds my hand again.

Anyway I feel like I'm going to have to start paying to get massages just to deal with this type of loss. How absurd is that? But I can't seem to find any literature out there about this particular post-divorce problem, and without a book to guide me I'm lost ;-)

I realize that this can all be fixed with a quick fling with some random guy, but that's just not for me.

So I let my cat pull my hair to substitute ;-)

[kml]

I get the most matches from the Philly, Washington DC, or Metropolitan VA areas...2 or more hours away

Well - that first boyfriend I had after the divorce? The one who was handsome and sexy and loved smart women? He lived an eleven hour drive away!

I would drive up to spend a three day weekend with him once every month or two (he couldn't get away from his restaurant at the time). We'd chat daily online, and he'd love me up so good when I was there, it would last me the month.

It wasn't ideal, but it worked.

Compared to that, a guy only two hours away seems fine - heck, you could spend every weekend together if you wanted! My current boyfriend lives 20 minutes away, but due to work schedules I still only get to see him once every week or two.

[beatrice]

I think I developed a slightly distant manner because i was in a committed relationship with my xh for a very long time, partly because when i was younger I was quite attractive, and guys used to hit on me, which I didn't want. And no, a wedding band doesn't necessarily put men off.

When I was older and in a career that was intimidating enough, but the manner probably remained.

[Walking]

I get the most matches from the Philly, Washington DC, or Metropolitan VA areas...2 or more hours away

Well - that first boyfriend I had after the divorce? The one who was handsome and sexy and loved smart women? He lived an eleven hour drive away!

I would drive up to spend a three day weekend with him once every month or two (he couldn't get away from his restaurant at the time). We'd chat daily online, and he'd love me up so good when I was there, it would last me the month.

It wasn't ideal, but it worked.

Compared to that, a guy only two hours away seems fine - heck, you could spend every weekend together if you wanted! My current boyfriend lives 20 minutes away, but due to work schedules I still only get to see him once every week or two.

... and my current partner lives 3,000km away and I work 2 weeks out of every month abroad. We have maybe 4 days together a month and it is AMAZING.

We talk every day, we e-mail and text a couple of times a day. It's delightful. I wouldn't swap it for the world. We've sustained this for 18 months and it keeps getting better and better. We are currently considering moving to the same state, so at least we could be together when I'm home. I worry that might take some of the magic out of it!

There are no rules any more Antonia. You can make them up as you go.

[AntoniaB]

Funny you mentioned that a wedding band doesn't always put men off...

I met a guy at a friend's house who had met his girlfriend on eharmony and they'd been together for a couple of months. No one seemed to think he was with the right woman for him, but he said he was happy and really talked up how great eharmony was to me.

At some point, he looked at my hands. I usually wear 4 rings. I had a ring on my left hand that was just my birthstone. He told me that that screamed "taken." I was like, it's my birthstone! He said it didn't matter. He then told me I should not wear any rings at all. He said "guys are dumb and unobservant. They just see any ring and assume you're married, because women wear their wedding bands and engagement rings on different fingers anymore."

I showed him the ring I bought myself with my royalty check. It's the only ring I ever bought--the rest were gifts from XH. This ring has 10 tiny colored sapphires arranged in a sort of rainbow of color, on a gold band. He said "nope. Don't wear it. Looks like a wedding band to me, even on your right hand."

I just feel like this is all so ridiculous, you know?

I'm not opposed to a long-distance rel. at all. I think it would give me the space I want. It's the people I've met who are opposed. One guy I met said "a long-distance rel. can only work if you set a time limit on it" and then he stopped commmunicating with me. Honestly, I feel like I'm dealing with a bunch of sappy dudes with this online dating venture. They give off such a needy vibe it's unbelievable. And I think I just got my answer as far as why they're not beating down my door...my profile is the opposite of needy ;-)