Returned from an out of town, week-long visit with my family. The evening before I left, W went on a cleaning spree. She even woke up extra early, before taking me to the airport, to continue cleaning. Upon my return home, I noticed it had been freshened-up. Gee, I wonder what transpired while I was gone?? Not only that, her behavior toward me (while still amicable) has since become even more distant. I have played it cool, without much acknowledgment.
Six months ago, she gave us nine months. With three months left, and approaching quickly, I'm becoming frustrated and questioning whether this marriage is able to be saved. I'm losing optimism.
180's don't appear to be working, but of course I'm not sure of the real reason(s) for her unhappiness. I don't think she even cares if I GAL or not. Playing it cool hasn't made a difference either. Are there any methods that will work, or is it quite possible nothing will work to win her back?
We live together, so sleeping in separate bedrooms is as much space as we can really currently give each other. On those occasions which we are home together, unless it is for a quick meal, we usually maintain a distance from each other doing our own separate thing, perhaps having occasional small talk.
She will not tolerate any discussion regarding our status: past, present or future. I've only attempted communicating the topic of "us", literally, maybe twice in six months. I learned quickly just to leave it alone, hoping she would eventually approach me. That hasn't happened and it's frustrating. I want to let her know we can get past this, I'm willing.
In any event, I'm still in the dark, not truly knowing what it is was that drove W out of my arms and into the arms of OM. What I don't want is to go our separate ways, nor without having a clear understanding of what really went wrong.
That is a reality that sometimes, there isn't anything we can do to save the marriage. But we can save OURSELVES! Everything you are learning in the DB book can help save your marriage, but it will surely put you in a better place to handle everything if it doesn't work out.
My ex did the same thing, she found someone else then told me she wanted out (I didn't know about him at the time). Nothing I did, or could have done, would have changed her mind. Do I know exactly what drove her to another man? No, and I never really will. But I do know that my actions, behaviors, and desicions played a key part in our marriages demise. Granted, that information didn't help me save my marriage, but it WILL help me make my next relationship better and stronger.
Don't spend too much time and effort trying to figure out why she left. Spend that time figuring out how to better yourself so you won't make the same mistakes again. Someday, you will be in another loving relationship (it might be with your W or with someone else). Don't you want to make sure that you have all the skills you need to make that one last?
I'm pretty new at this, but Michele does say that there's no guarantee... and when you think about there are so many variables at play that how can there be? It's one thing if we were making widgets or a recipe. Add more of this, take out of some of that and voila things are fixed. But this isn't that. It's messy and emotional and hard to figure out. Maybe there are mental health issues, maybe there are deep-seated emotional issues, or maybe it's just not meant to be.
The other morning I was listening to This American Life. They had a very short story that I loved and made me think of this whole mess that I and many of us are in. Bear with me for it will seem an odd corollary, but... the Vienna Sausage company makes natural casing wieners. After making them in this Rube Goldberg like factory on the south side of Chicago for a very long time, they finally built a new state of the art facility on the northside.
They opened the factory and things started up, but soon they realized something was very wrong. The sausages weren't the right color and they didn't have the right "snap" to them. They checked formulas, temperatures, timing, ingredients and nothing got better.
Then one day a bunch of guys were having beers after work and got to talking about an old co-worker of theirs, Vic. Vic worked at the southside factory for 50 years and his job was to take the finished sausage off the line and carry them, through about three blocks worth of factory, to the smoker room. And then it hit them... that was the problem... Vic didn't come to the new factory and Vic's route didn't exist. It was the time it took and the temperature of the route that he took that was the missing ingredient.
So what the heck is that point of that story? No matter how hard we try or what we do, our relationships might have a "Vic's route" in them somewhere. That one component or issue that we just don't see and unless we happen to stumble across it like the workers happened to over beers, all our best efforts can still be for nothing.
It's not a rosy or happy thought, but you have to invest in this to make yourself better and hope that by extension it makes your R better. I know, for me, I'm doing this so I can be the male role model and mentor to my son that my father could never be to me due to his illness and early death. The stuff I've figured out in the just the last 13 days is more valuable to me at this point than anything.
Married 6 together 8 Me:38 W:31 second marriage for both SS12, SD10, S6 Bomb: 9/8/11 (day before our 5 yr ann) W moved out: 2/18/12 D final: 11/12/12 Share S 50/50. Spend as much time as I can with SS & SD
Brian in Hville, DelinquentGurl & workinghardguy: I greatly appreciate your replies, thanks. MWD does make a disclaimer in her books and that's pretty much what I thought; the problem is not wanting to believe it.
Perhaps this topic has been discussed previously on this site. If so, please point me to the thread(s). If not, I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts.
My W is definitely having an ongoing affair. I've known for six months, not because she told me, but rather from my own research.
Question #1 - At what point should I approach W with this dicey subject matter? Question #2 - Considering my knowledge is a result of researching her dishonest behavior, how do I approach with least resistance? Question #3 - Is this my topic to approach her, or her topic to approach me? Why?
fyi: I inquired once (early on), before I had any proof, and it resulted in denial. She feigned insult I made such an accusation. Can/Should I revisit this subject matter with her? Pros/Cons?
WRT DB not working, it won't while OM is in the picture, IMO. Your W's needs are being met elsewhere, and she is intoxicated (literally) with the "in love" feeling. My sitch was the same, although I didn't know about OM. Nothing I did helped -- nothing. That's because there was nothing I could provide my W that she wasn't getting from OM. All I did was make her feel guilty and bad by my mere presence (since I didn't know, I wasn't actively making her feel guilty!)
From my perspective, all you can do is "maintain" and tread water until OM is gone -- and do your best not to make things worse. Those are the arguments in favor "confront".
Question 1: If the status quo is driving you nuts, and you'll feel better with things in the open, then confront FOR YOU. I would try to do it when the two of you have some uninterrupted time with no reason to go somewhere else -- i.e. 9:00 at night on a work night.
Question 2: Don't ask questions, just tell her you know. Don't ask for a confession. Explain that you know what's going on and you're not looking to debate. If she asks how you know, don't get into it, explain that it's not important and then move the conversation forward. Then normalize it -- explain that you understand how these things happen, we're all human, and it's normal to be flattered by the attentions of someone new. You need to make her feel that you "get it", and that this is a shared problem that's been created in your marriage that you're both responsible for. It's not something "she did to you". If you can explain how your shortcomings made her feel the way she does, etc. This is not to say that you should agree that the affair is OK, it's not ok, and you should never say it is. You can understand, but you don't condone. You don't need to point that out, just in your choice of words, don't cross the line to saying that it was acceptable. The goal of this conversation is to leave her with the feeling that you got to this place together, because of what both of you have done, not just her. Then, you want to let her know that you want to work with her to put things right (versus her having to straighten herself out). You are willing to do the work. She can choose to do the work or not, that's up to her, but to you, the marriage is worth fighting for and you are going to do what it takes.
Question 3: She will not approach you, you can forget that. The only way she's going to approach you is if she's motivated to put things right. Since she wants separation, she is motivated to move on, therefore she will never come to you on this. After my W and I reconciled, I asked her if she would have ever told me about the EA if we had gone through with the D. She said "no", if we were to divorce, it wouldn't seem relevant (?). She said that if the situation were reversed, she would view the details of my A as being between me and the other person, and she would only worry about the issues between the two of us. I can't identify with that at all, but maybe it gives you a lens on the other side. It would certainly be helpful to have the "wayward spouse" forum where we could read the thought process on the other side. Maybe someone who's been a wayward spouse can chime in.
What's so hard about giving "web advice" is that I don't know your W, or the history of your M beyond what you've written. If there have been control issues, your confrontation may be perceived as yet another attempt to control and could push things horribly wrong. If she is head over heels with OM and believes there is a long term future there, your confrontation may push her out the door. You have to gauge these risks and no one here can help you with that. It's high stakes.
All I can tell you is that if your current situation is untenable, meaning it's eating you away knowing that OM is there and she's leading this secret life with you in the dark, then decide if things will be better FOR YOU if you turn the light on. It will certainly change things. Map out the potential responses that W will take and map them out -- how will you feel about each outcome, and what will you do about it? Think of it like a chess game. When you figure out the worst possible outcome, ask if that's better or equal to what you're living with now. If so, you've got nothing to lose. In any case, I would think about the second (and third) step after your confrontation. To some degree you have the advantage of surprise here, so you can plan for confrontation.
Note that a common knee-jerk reaction is to right away ask for D when confronted. Prepare for that. Know that if she asks, that does not mean that papers will show up tomorrow, you still have time to DB, and she probably didn't mean it, it's a natural place to go.
Good luck! Let us know what you decide
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
You will probably never know what really went wrong. It probably has nothing to do with you. Getting into someones head, that's not easy to do.
As to your subject line, sometimes there's nothing we can do. But you can go out knowing you tried. I don't think 180's, Act As If's, and these other approaches aren't really 'tricks' you apply for quick responses. They are changes that you have to adopt and live by, long term. Even if you lose this one, they will aid you in the future.
I've been reading Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" and it seems to apply directly to your sitch. In the book, he does recommend bringing things to crisis, you should give it a read because he gives a prescription for how to do it, and what to do after the fact. Here's a quote:
"The precipitated crisis first, must be accompanied by an entire change of attitude. Instead of begging, pleading, wringing your hands...you as the vulnerable partner must appear strangely calm and assured. The key word is confidence, and it is of maximum importance. Your manner should say, 'I believe in me, I am not afraid. I can cope, regardless of the outcome. I know something I'm not talking about. I've had my day of sorrow, and I'm through crying..."
"Not that you should say these things with words, or course. In fact, the less said about your frame of mind, the better. It's your private business. One of the great errors made by the vulnerable lover when things begin to deteriorate is to talk too much. His secure partner is noncommunicative, evasive, deceptive, and mysterious. He will not sit down and explain his inner feelings to the one who desperately needs that information."
"I'm recommending that you, the one who has sought to hold the marriage together, now choose your words more carefully too. It is as though you and your mate have been involved in a table game with her hiding her cards and you permitting yours to be seen. This has given the independent partner more information than she should have had, especially about the pain you are experiencing. It is time to be more discreet. No more should you reveal your every thought and plan."
"It is important during this time of crisis not to do predictable things. Having lived with you for years, your partner has you analyzed to a tee. She knows what bugs you, what makes you laugh, and what makes you cry. She has memorized all your little 'prerecorded' phrases that sprinkle your conversation. My advice is that you change these tapes. Don't offer suggestions when you would typically do so. Don't be predictable!"
"Your purpose, you see, is to convince this woman that events are swirling out of control and may take her in directions she has not anticipated. The old rules don't apply. And why is this new mystery advantageous? Because one of the reasons your lover has lost interest in the relationship is that the challenge is gone. It's become so monotonous and routine. Hence, you would be wise to turn the whole thing upside down."
Finally:
"An interesting thing happens when this kind of quiet confidence suddenly replaces tears and self-pity. Curiousity infects the aloof party, and she begins to probe for details. For the first time in months, perhaps, she's coming your way. She's saying 'You seem different tonight,' and 'I hope you're beginning to get over our problems'. She's baiting you to find out what's going on inside. It is uncomfortable for her to observe that changes are occurring which she neither controls nor understands. Tell her nothing. She *needs* to wonder."
It goes on to say that despite your partner's stoic appearance, she will be wrestling with feelings of guilt and self-doubt. There is still a tiny spark for you there, and you have to give it space to kick up into a flame versus smothering it and snuffing it out.
Hope that helps
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
