Wow, nice card. You're right, he does have it in him. It just needs to be coaxed out ever-so-gently! Things are looking so much better, LL.
I think it was good for you to forgive him. It seems like you have thought a lot about your expectations and his feelings about them... so you have reached out to him, and look at all the baby steps!
I should also add a bit about monday nights conversation... h did mention my ring.. he hates that I don't wear my ring...he will not take his off because it does mean something to him...he understands why I wont wear mine..it does not make him happy that I go out without a ring..he does not like to look at my hand and not see it there...it is something that he thinks about...(again pointing out to me that he is not oblivious) he hasn't asked me to put it back on because he hasn't found the right time or the right way.
so I do feel better about that...I have said (here anyway and possibly to him) that I would be happy if he even said it angrily.."why don't you put your ring back on" but I wouldn't be happy with that now would I...I do want him to propose...in some fashion..with a new ring (yes I've hinted that a nice little ruby would be nice) or with the original one.
well the lawyer called and he has been called into court for friday..so has rescheduled our appointment for tuesday...and said to call if I have any problems before then (sheesh what do people do?? ahhh...I know the threat of d makes people do weird things..move money around...hide stuff..etc...that is not my h...but then again I would never ever ever say it would be like my h to keep a secret friend...or to leave his wife and kids...) hey I don't care...he can keep putting off the appointment...
I hope it all works out. I wish you'd cancel your appt. with lawyer too. You know your R better than any of us.
Forgiveness is a tough one. So is bitterness, my h still has problems with forgiving himself & I'm sure enjoying his affair He also gets angry at me for leaving him in the first place. I just think I should have done it years earlier!
The Gift of Forgiveness by Charles Stanley is a quick, helpful book.
I hope you have a good day. I love to spoon too, the rest will come....
KIP( Who doesn't know all your story, but I love your posts.)
"Those who don't read, have no
advantage over those who can't"
Mark Twain
Quote: I love to spoon too, the rest will come....
actually the rest (if the rest is in reference to more physical) it's there...that was what the kiss would have lead to...what my sitting on the couch was leading to...I hugged him..he hugged me...I then just sat cuddled next to him...he started to rub my back..was nice..but the hands started to focus in a direction that was sexual and that was not what I wanted so I got up...but not abruptly..
this am..in the wee hours..h's beeper was making noise so he got up to shut it off...upon returning to spoon me again..more cuddling and a caressing that was nice..but those hands started to caress in a sexual direction...think h sensed that wasn't what I wanted so stopped.
it's odd because yes sex is most definatley something I want...but I would also like the hugs and cuddling that don't lead there...the physical intimacy that is not sexual.
I used to have a problem with that with h...and honestly still do at times..sheesh just look back at how bothered I was by our bath and shower together that lead to nothing...I wasn't appreciating the simplicity of things.
this is a tough issue with me...I guess what it comes down to is ...yes I want h to kiss me...to hug me..to caress me..but I want it to be because he feels close to me..out of love out of a feeling etc...not just because he's horny...know what I mean..of course horny sex is just fine too.( actually sometimes more fine) but right now I don't want horny sex with h...I want some emotion behind it..right now h seems to confused to know the difference. but that again is me analyzing h...last night he could have just felt it..we did have two nice days together.
Now as you have told me countless times, stop analyzing every action. H wanted to be with you. Don't mindread. maybe he wasn't simply horny but actually emotionally charged. You are a beautiful and desirable woman. He sees that. He wants her! Do what you must and what is best for you but don't assume to know what H is feeling especially emotionally.
LL even hugs kisses and cuddles end on sexual issue... we always can distinguish when it is only a horny moment than where there is love and care include...!!... dont you think that...?!!... so, there are time sex between a couple is ahorny moment... but the most of them include love and care...!!... good luck, and continue doing all you are doing... the best..!!
I haven't read it, but I bet Michele's "The Sex-Starved Marriage" might have some insight for you. Might want to look up some of Dr. Phil's books too.
Hey...guys are pretty clumsy with figuring out when to "go for it" and when not to. Hard to know when you gals want it and when you don't. Added to that the male libido is more powerful (and shortlived one might add). Often guys can't control their "primitive" impulses, particularly when they are with someone they truly love. It's something else guys need to be taught because we had pretty lousy role-models. We were never taught by our Dads to be respectful of a women's sexual needs (and lack thereof) or expectations. Guys also are pretty thin skinned around rejection. We don't handle it well. It's hard to distinguish between sex and love. Women see a clear distinction.
Quote: h sensed that wasn't what I wanted so stopped
Your H obviously has not only love, but deep respect for you. He knew when to back off. Give him credit for that.
Again, try not to expect him to understand your needs and expectations.
Hope this helps! I still think there's hope for you guys!!
it was never a problem that I didn't want it...it was a problem that h didn't and I always got irritated with that...I mean common' now...not fair for me to go out and be desired..come home and be turned down!! I was the one dealing with rejection..but if I think back I can recall being the one who wanted "it" when he just wanted to cuddle and being a bit pissy about it all...a role reversal I guess I don't know.. the issue now for me is to keep from going there while still working on the physical intimacy issue...and how to draw the line...I don't want to get irritated myself when a cuddle doesn't lead to anything...nor do I want him to feel that way...
guess the thing is...sometimes I just want more than a peck on the cheek but no more than that...and other times I want it all. or rather...I don't want it to be all or nothing all the time.
LL, My h & I were married for 21 years before I left. He was the first guy I had dated in over a year after I had been raped. He was great very much into sex. After I left him I thought we were done. Well the week after we first saw each other was amazing as far as sex was concerned. I don't know what happened maybe because I'm 40 and suppose to be at my peak (wahtever) but I have read a few books and I just enjoy it more. How to satisfy a man every time and have him beg for more by Naura Hayden may sound yucky to some. But it is an excellent book. Made me laugh it is a very good read. It's bascially for married couples and affairs are mentioned. I want to get the how to satisfy a woman book. Sex should never be used as a punishment, I say that now because I was a idiot before. If he wants to be sexual especially after having two good days, man go for it. I think sometimes the sweet moments you want will come when you least expect it. I know my husband was rather surprised (to put it mildly by my changes) he doesn't think they will last. I just have a whole new attitiude about sex and marriage. John Gray's Venus & Mars in the bedroom is very good too. The things you want will come LL they will.
KIP
"Those who don't read, have no
advantage over those who can't"
Mark Twain
I honestly think your H is trying to reach out to you. I sometimes wonder if you miss it at times because you my have certain expectations or your own ideas of what it should be like, look like, sound like for him to reach out to you. I think I sometimes miss my H's efforts at times due to my own expectations that don't always match up with what my H does.
Quote: h did mention my ring..
he hates that I don't wear my ring...he will not take his off because it does mean something to him...he understands why I wont wear mine..it does not make him happy that I go out without a ring..he does not like to look at my hand and not see it there...it is something that he thinks about...(again pointing out to me that he is not oblivious)
he hasn't asked me to put it back on because he hasn't found the right time or the right way.
LL, I think your h may have been asking you to put your ring back on. He was asking without asking. When he says he hasn't asked you to put it back on because he hasn't found the right time or the right way, sounds to me like he thinks he can't do it the way he thinks you would think is the right time or right way.
Quote: I have said (here anyway and possibly to him) that I would be happy if he even said it angrily.."why don't you put your ring back on" but I wouldn't be happy with that now would I...I do want him to propose...in some fashion..with a new ring (yes I've hinted that a nice little ruby would be nice) or with the original one.
This sounds like there is a lot of expectation (not that you don't deserve it to be that way), and maybe he feels he just can't live up to that. Maybe it really is just too much for him. Maybe he feels you view it as "you left me, you had an EA, the only way to get me back to wearing my rings is to "ask" "propose", "beg", I deserve at least that after what you've done to me." Maybe that is intimidating to him. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, just that it is a possibility that he views it that way.
When he said he hadn't asked due to the right time or right way, maybe you could have helped him along by saying something like "H, would you like me to put them back on? Would that mean something to you?" Maybe he would say yes and maybe then you could.
Would it really have to be some big gesture like a proposal for you to be satisfied? Just think about it and see if you could be happy just simply knowing he wants you to be wearing them.
I have a feeling your H does feel very guilty as well as inadequate and unworthy of you. Maybe by continually reminding him that you will and can forgive will be helpful. He may not feel "safe" in that aspect yet. A lot of the problem is probably just him and how he feels about himself.
Maybe he does feel unworthy and that is difficult to overcome. Perhaps he always has felt that way? Did he grow up feeling like he could never please his parents? I only ask because a lot of how you describe him seems very similar to my H. My H needs to feel worthy and very approved of. He grew up with a lot of expectations that he just could not meet and therefore he was given much disapproval. Then he married me, and I've come to realize I was a person with many expectations as well (not that they were unjustified ones). I think that it was hard on H, and probably a lot of what led to the A. H was trying to escape expectations. (not saying it was my fault)
I will always remember back when H didn't think we could make it or stay together after his A. His biggest reason for thinking that was, and I quote him "I just really don't think you'll ever be able to forgive me, and I just can't imagine living my life like that" So I really had to reassure him that I could and would forgive him.
One other thing I think or at least believe is true for my h, and correct me if any of you men think I'm wrong for this general statement.....I think that sex is the way men connect. I think that could be your H's way of being close to you. I know that you need to have another type of closeness and that sex alone won't cut it, but it could be helpful. You can't help but to promote good feelings about someone, when you touch and careess and "get pleasure" It's good for the mind and body. Just a thought. I think it has bee a good way for my H and I to connect and to stay close even though in the last couple years we had seldom been connecting by "discussing" things, we are now moving towards that.
Oops, sorry didn't mean to go off on a tangent. Just wanted to give you my .01 cent worth (not sure it was worth .02 cents)
Hang in there a little longer LL, I think good things could be around the corner.
