I'm reading to learn more since knowing gets me through each day pain free. I can't say if I'm repressing my feelings anymore even though it doesn't feel like it. I read about MLC here and wherever I can find anything on it because I want all points of view since no one point is exact. My confusion and concern comes from what I'm reading and what I'm living.
I do not believe my wife is having an affair. She's been honest with me - to a point. I ask no questions, I do no investigations or make any inquiries, nor do I concern myself that her friends stay away from me like I have the plague. My wife offers me information about her plans on occasion without my even asking and I make nothing of it. When she tells me that sometimes she just goes out and sites in a parking lot for a few hours just to get away from me I believe her. I've done it too a few times this summer. I don't want to always appear as though I have no life and I'm always sitting at home. I just don't tell her where I've been and she doesn't ask.
Yet there are so many people here that their spouse is/was having an affair. It's not that I think it couldn't happen to me, I just figure I'll cross that road when it comes. I'm only a little into the second year of this MLC adventure as far as I can trace back.
CONFUSION POINT: She has clarity of mind to not ask me where I've been. Seeing as how I'm not interfering with the way she's living her life and never get in the way of anything she does, it's almost as though she knows she has no right to interfere with my plans. Yet others with MLC seem to be walking around with a big middle finger pointed at their spouse.
Then the kids. She did go through a month or so where she didn't come home much at all. The kids noticed. Oldest son posted on his FB page asking if anyone knew where his mother was at. CONFUSION POINT: She's some home pretty much every night since then. Granted, she moved into the living room after that. Again, I'm reading about so many MLC spouses that just don't seem to care about the kids, but my wife seems to have clarity of mind enough to know she's hurting the kids somehow and wanting to avoid that if possible.
ANOTHER CONFUSION POINT: She wants away from me really bad. She's determined that that's what she needs because she seems to think that marriage was never something that suited her. Like it put her life on hold. Yet she will not pack up and leave to go live with her family 1 state over because she would be taking the kids away from me and she would never deny me my kids.
My CONCERN is not what I have yet to experience, but my indifference to all of this. My concern is that she will not find the strength to question her feelings about me. I don't want her to leave and I don't want her to have an affair, but I'm concerned that at some point, something in her is going to give and I'm going to lose. I'm to the point that I think the only reason she hasn't left is because we can't afford a divorce due to current debt and her family, who she'd be moving in with, all want her to get over herself and work on our marriage.
I support her through patience and listening when she speaks. I offer her no excuses or explanations. I pay her off compliments on occasion just to show that I'm aware of her, not to look desperate. I take on as much responsibility with the kids and the house as I can so that she can just do whatever.
I'M CONCERNED: Because even though my wife is in the 2nd year of MLC and seems to be stuck in Anger and Reply, I don't see where she has a way of getting on through the next stages in order to get through. I don't know that I'll ever get a chance to R because she has no support element for her behavior. Sure her friends give her a place to go to get away from me or go do things with, but those that know me know how much I love her and may even be protecting her from herself. Her family, friends and I are all supporting her without pushing her and yet she still refuses to believe anything other than I'm a Poophead and I make her life as miserable as it is.
How on earth can she get through this if she refuses to see? I understand that's part of the problem with MLC, but how am I supposed to give her more opportunities to have time and space? More often lately I find that I'll go into the bedroom and close the door when she's home. I'll be doing school work, but I want to give her a sense that I'm not around.
I'M CONCERNED: That even though she shows presence of mind to know ( I assume ) she's hurting the people closest to her, she will continue to be stuck in Anger/Replay. She's a very stubborn woman, even before this and she does not back down in defeat. I just don't know what more I could be doing. Time & space from me is what she needs ( I guess ) and that's what I provide. Just seems it's not enough.
sadak, your W is showing similar traits to mine. She is a WAS without a doubt, yet she has many, many MLC traits... so as I say, jury is still out...
But like yours, if my W is in MLC, she has been in replay for about a year... and replay can often be two years, but there's no guarantee it will only be that long... replay could be indefinite... the anger is not necessarily leaving replay... anger... and depression... are fairly constant in MLC from what I understand, as is that sense of detachment...
My W used to do a lot of "touch and go" until my "dark" boundary finally got through to her...
I can't say my dark caused her to go dark, she likely would have, anyhow... she would ask about me, but never share about her own doings... anyhow, she appears to be completely detached from me, but I know this... she is NOT detached... because every once in a while, she spews venom at me... and I'm still to blame for everything... and if I am not to blame, someone else is... so, she is physically detached and communicatively detached... but she is NOT emotionally detached...
My W is very controlling and manipulative... it comes across as stubborn... it's possible your W is the same and passive / aggressive can also appear as stubborn... don't forget that while many people don't like to be wrong... a WAS and MLCer ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT WRONG... in their minds...
On the kids, understand that I could no longer continue to walk on egg shells and I was done being put down and all the other things that a spouse on the run will put forward to a LBS... so I left, and in doing, I had to leave the kids...
The point is, I could not put my finger on the MLC behaviour of abandoning family... because she had the kids... but here's the thing... after much observation, I've come to realize that my W HAS abandoned the kids, even if they are in her care... she will ship them off to overnights with odd sorts of "friends" or get baby sitters (but never a babysitter who might be M oriented; like her family) and she has gone so far as to go to parties and stay over night and leave my D13 at home alone or with a friend...
Oh yes... have no doubt that abandonment can happen, right under the noses of the WAS/MLCer... emotional abandonment... and they make up for it with lots of toys or lots of liberties to the kids or other ways to give to the kids to make up for the guilt they feel...
So I just want you to know that no matter what, none of that matters... whether your W is MLC or simply WAS... unless and until your W looks at herself and owns her poor choices, every act that she puts on, to make like friends, or show like she cares, or unwillingness to take the step to D...
None of that matters for you... I like to analyze and I know that the insight is fantastic... but in the end, the ONLY thing that will get you through is GALing... which might have the added benefit of her being curious about you... and THEN she will ask questions, have no doubt...
And 180s and "fixing" the things that you feel played a part in the downfall of your M... and making those things stick... and then doing more to make yourself even a better man...
If she is WAS... these are the things that might have more immediate results of your W being drawn towards you... and if she's MLC... well... NOTHING but TIME will change that, if it changes... at least you'll come out the other side a better man...
Ugh! I forgot about the whole gift thing. I noticed that she was buying the kids stuff all the time. It reeked of someone trying to buy her kids favor. It was exceptionally bad during that month and a half she rarely ever came home. This was magnified by the fact that she's been stressing so bad about money for so many years and yet she was an open ATM. I took a big pay raise and position at work a few months back, but I opted to use my money to take on more financial responsibilities around the home/family. I'm lucky to have $20 to my name 3 days before the next payday, yet she's out with friends and driving around all over the place. Makes me laugh my butt off[internally] that she complains about not being able to afford gas for the new car I bought her. Hell I pay $600[insurance included] a month for that flippin thing and she's upset she can't put gas in it? Whatever. No I didn't get it for her because I was desperate for her affections. I got it because we had been planning on getting a new car for over a year and both our cars are about worn down to the nub. Now it's just mine that's worn out, but I don't drive as far to work and in her condition I would rather she had piece of mind that the car wouldn't break down on her.
You bringing up WAS has in a way solidified for me that she is in fact going through MLC. I have made changes and she has noticed, although it annoys her because it's too little too late, but I don't care. For me, I see the WAS as someone who's angry, but still holds some form of wanting better from their spouse. MLC, for me, means I'm chin deep in poop. Yet I see some reason to believe.
For a time, my heart and mind struggled with what was going on and now they don't. Now they seem to be speaking to each other and evaluating information with reason. Time is my friend. It's gotten me this far. It was the first week of january this year when I accidently stumbled upon the legal papers dissolving our marriage. Without knowing anything about MLC or what she/I was going through I thought I handled it well. I approached her and handed her the folder and told her calmly that I had stumbled across them on accident and insisted I was not "snooping" ( it really was by accident I found them ). I told her I was sorry and left the room to continue folding laundry. She came in and insisted she hadn't "signed" anything yet. All I said, calmly, was that I was trying my best and I'm sorry that's not enough for her. She said we'd talk more about it the next day, but that was the end of it. For months that folder hung over my head and my heart - wondering when I'd see it again. I don't worry about it anymore. It amuses me that 9 months later we're still married - at least legally, because that means I'm right where I want to be right now. She is around me more often in order to actually see the person I am vs. who I was.
I also agree with you that I'm the fault in her life. The words she uses when she's expressing how she feels are all geared towards me. She "says" she blames herself, but the words she chooses to back that comment up all point to her believing otherwise. Such as how she claims our oldest son is more hostile around her after he's been around me for awhile. Sounds like she's blaming me. Doesn't matter that he lashes out around me when she's not around. It's my fault he acts that way around her. Whatever. My kids know I'll be home in the mornings. I do not discuss my wife with anyone, but you all here. How the kids act around her is a product of her own design even if she sees otherwise. I defend her if it comes up and tell them that she loves them and that she's an adult and responsible for herself. I do not expect them to understand much more so I leave it at that.
As for my GAL efforts. The summer has been very good to me. When the kids are in school I cut back on my stuff and give time and energy to the kids and their daily events. I'm trying to fit something in once a week, but we'll see how that pans out. I have people asking me to participate in some stuff I like, but I'm financially strapped and if I can't commit fully to something because of my involvement with my kids then I opt to not do those things. School and work keep me busy anyway outside of the kids. Lack of "hang out buddies" is a major problem she's hung up on about me. I'm social when I want to be, but sorry if I don't call someone to go hang out and drink beer or whatever - I'm broke and I love being with my kids. I'm in love with my life and I enjoy each and every opportunity I have to shape and mold my kids into great individuals. I'm very athletic and have no issues running around with them, but I'm a thinker too and I love to offer them insight into life and being a morally grounded person.
Not to mention I all but quit drinking. I was never a big drinker, but 1 or 2 a night to help me sleep after long work days is enough. Once my wife shut down on me in every possible way back in August 2010, I found that drinking only made me dwell on unhappy thoughts, such as maybe OM was involved. Not to mention school work usually keeps me up late too so I don't have much energy to drink anymore. The good news though is that on rare occasions that I do partake, the unhappy thoughts are not to be found.
In the end, i guess I can explain my mood as excited. I see two roads in front of me. One - she heads off into the distance and I partake in the adventure of starting over ( already working on a list of necessities I'll need to buy for a new dwelling). The other road, is us together, but different. My hand is extended out to her not in love, but in cautious optimism that says "okay lets do this $hit."
I'm not dependent on her anymore and I'm not grossly independent. I'm indifferent.
Knowing your financial limits is great and if that restricts your GAL activities to less expensive ones, so be it. And yes, I completely agree that being with your kids ABSOLUTELY covers GALing... I love my kids and it was my pleasure to be the SAHD... to be always available to go to school concerts or send them off to school or receive them after school or clean after their messes and deal with homework and the drama... oh the drama... hmmmmm...
My W travels the equivalent of one month per year and I knew she had always been guilt ridden and it showed in that every time she comes back from an away mission, she brings the kids gifts... of course, it's understandable... but it's guilt driven... not like she's building up a spoon collection for them or something...
OTOH, when I started to see D13 start to abuse the separated parent thing... I very quickly caught myself and sat the kids down, told them how much I loved them and let them know that I WOULD NEVER buy their love... and now I show them... sure, I do buy them stuff now and again, but I don't have a problem saying no, and I surprise them with "stuff" when there is no reason, and I always focus on the together time as the benefit and value... and it shows in my relationship with the kids... I'm not just some sugar daddy...
Lastly, on the "too little, too late" I realized a while back how that saying is actually not about the LBS... rather it appears to be a statement that the WAS/MLCer feels they've moved too far away and caused too much damage that FOR THEM, it's too late and would be too hard... not to say it's true, just how they feel...
What I did realize today is, WAS or MLC, we still need to monitor. It's just WHAT we monitor is different.
With WAS, we monitor for positive changes in our WAS' behaviour, that they are curious about us and move towards us. And with a WAS, the "do what works" really makes an impression... even though we are doing these things for US...
With MLC, the only time matters, but we still monitor them. Of course, we work on ourselves. But we monitor the MLCer, looking for consistent change in them... more... "rational" thinking... less or no venom... actions of remorse... actions of moving towards... THOSE are the things we monitor for, that must be consistent over time, to let us know that finally, at that time, the MLCer might actually recognize the positive changes in us (hopefully we're REALLY AMAZING PEOPLE but that time) and it might make the MLCer think they want to revisit the R and actually do the hard work of rebuilding the M if it still exists...
Keep on keeping on, Sadak! Sound's like you're in a good mind space right now!
Why thank you Kaffe. I was rather confident that I was traversing the right frame of mind, although it had been brought up that maybe I'm being "cold". I'm sure that's quite possible, but after chasing after my wife for almost a year I just stopped and looked behind me and noticed nobody chasing me and that running after her got me no closer to her. I suppose you could say I didn't move forward or backwards - I hung left and thought I'd see where that takes me.
My mind set has helped me with the kids. My oldest son has all but stopped asking me about my marriage. I think I was obviously distressed about our relationship and now that I'm in a more happy place and the kids seem to be picking up on that.
I too got the - "you don't buy anything for us". Seeing as how my W was buying things for them and allowing them to do things she normally wouldn't have in the past, they accused me. I sat my son down and wrote out what was deposited in my account each paycheck and then wrote down all the bills I have to pay, car, CC, electric, internet, etc. and was able to show him what I spend and where. I also make the kids come with me each paycheck to the grocery store and we shop on a tight budget so that they can learn the value of money and planning ahead.
I dream with my oldest son and keep him informed of my efforts to clear the debt I can clear and what I hope to do with the freed up money. In the mean time if they want something - go ask their mom. The challenge of finding "free" activities to do that would keep active kids involved was tough at first, but now days they enjoy just going to the park for a short hike or just throwing a ball around. All the while I point out things around us that we can appreciate such as the weather or smells in the air. I guess I'm just more aware of what's around me and I see more clearly when others appear oblivious.
And yes - homework is drama. According to my wife when she helped my oldest with homework he was on the honor role. I never argue that that's pretty easy to do when you're in the 3-4 grade and you're doing most all of his homework for him. I'm dealing with 5-6 grade assignments and recently diagnosed ADD so I have to be very patient and try to find a way similar to what he's being taught in school. This is the one stiking point that causes me strife. If he doesn't make the honor role the wife sees me as the failure. If he misses an assignment it's my fault. It's very frustrating. My son is already struggling in two classes and I'm trying to work with the teachers on ways I can help him and keeping the W included in all email correspondance. If she can't believe what I'm telling her, maybe she can believe what she sees - or at least half of it.
"...Lastly, on the "too little, too late" I realized a while back how that saying is actually not about the LBS... rather it appears to be a statement that the WAS/MLCer feels they've moved too far away and caused too much damage that FOR THEM, it's too late and would be too hard... not to say it's true, just how they feel..." -> very profound words.
Your words make so much sense. "too little, too late" implies in the LBS that we must try harder which in turn pushes our spouse away. I also see where it would be a lot of work for them and that it's easier to just end things. They can't seem to believe for a moment that both partners failed to maintain the marriage and that if both parties are in line to really work on re-establishing what was lost, they can make small miracles into large ones.
Holiday season is coming. It's going to get hard for a few months. In-laws are watching from the sidelines tentatively. We spend the holidays with them and last year was rough for me, but i'm interested in this year will go. I'd like ot see how far I really have come. All have expressed their support for me, but I'm careful to keep them out. I need to do this for me. It's very comforting that they care about me the way they do. We're all just kind of waiting/watching how the W will unfold. I just happen to have a front row seat.
Something else just popped up that I'm uncertain of. I understand the importance of letting them "appologize" for whatever and whenever. I know that replying/responding to this gets in the way of something(?).
My wife pays the cable bill. A moth ago it got cut off and I don't have the money to pay the bill. W came home and the kids told her and she asked me why I didn't tell her. She paid the bill right away. She forgot and I felt torn about even telling her. She's stressed about money, she hates me, I fail to see where telling her she needs to fork out money is going to make me look any less of the source of her issues.
Today I was called by the phone company. Another bill she pays. This time I sent her a text ( can't call from work ) saying they called, but that I had put the last of my extra money into the electric bill.
Her reply - Its been taken care of. Sorry for bothering you.
I hate electronic media sometimes. I have no idea her presence of mind. It's bad enough she takes much of what I say as an attack and I find myself reading sarcasm in her texting me. In the recent past I would have replied that it's no big deal. I was just letting her know because I thought she would want to know. I'm sitting on this one. I don't see that there's anyway I could explain myself. She wasn't a happy camper yesterday so chances are her "Sorry for bothering you" is meant as a hot iron comment. Either way, I guess I should just let it go without me trying to clarify and maybe she can get some feel good moment for having said "sorry" as the last word.........
I'm a bit at a loss. The more I read about MLC, the more I find my situation hopeless.....
My wife doesn't like her job. She knows she can't support herself without making money. She's not happy with her marriage, but she can quit that just fine. Ugh!
Everything points to the LBS not being able to fully understand what the MLC spouse is experiencing. I'm trying too hard to find logic in the irrational, but I can't help it. I want to know more.
For every good day she gives me, I have 6 bad days with her. I really can't do anything right! I've been such a non-confrontational person all my life that she gets P.O.'ed when I don't make a decision - such as if I want peperoni or sausage pizza. If I say I'll just eat what the kids will eat she snaps at me to just make a decision. Now that sounds easy enough, but if I make a decision she makes me feel like I'm causing her an inconvenience.
I want to say I'm not walking on eggshells, but I'm not sure I believe that anymore. I spend more time sitting in my room when I'm home just so I can be away from her and she can do as she pleases. Sounds like she's controlling me, but I'm not seeing it. Just cuz she goes out with whatever friend is avaialble that day and I don't doesn't mean I'm not comfortable with me. I'm already up till 1AM 5 nights a week doing school work. A social life beyond what small one I have only takes more time away that I don't have.
I keep getting this GAL thing. I get it. I just don't need it as a distraction from the pain. I don't have pain much. Nor anger. I'm even happy when she doesn't come home, because I feel relieved I don't have to be the focus of her poop slinging. Something just doesn't seem right when I escape to my room or go to work and sit there for a few hours doing school work just to make it look like I'm doing something different. My wife has several similarities to the MLC spouses I read about, but something doesn't seem right in actions I'm taking.
I'm happy all the time when she's around - which annoys her. I don't bother her with anything unless it's about the kids and I don't question anything she does. I've stressed my displeasure about some things over the course of the last year+ that we've been living like this and that pissed her off. I've professed my love using my voice and various other media I've shown her acts of love, kindness, and thoughtfulness I've altered my habits to be more helpful around the house
Everything pisses her off. Everything I do is an assault on her existence. I just don't understand it.
Someone must have recommended anti-depressants because she came out of nowhere, without me ever even mentioning meds, and said she would not take them because she can't live with the thought of having to take them for the rest of her life. How on earth do people not see logic at some point?!
How do you feel about being non-confrontational? Are you confrontation avoidant, or just generally one to go with the flow?
It sounds like you are letting her response to your behavior define whether or not your actions are right? How do you feel about your actions? I know most of them aren't really 'big deal' things, but do you feel any certain way towards them, in regards to who you want to be?
M: 32 W: 29 T: 9 Years M: 4 Years I hit rock bottom: 2/11 PA admitted: 4/11 WAW: 5/11 D filed: 6/11 now: Patience, wisdom, and growth - hopefully.
I'm a "go with the flow" guy. Not much phases me. I'm not ignorant of any past transgressions on my part. My job had been uber stressful for about 2 years because the learning curve is so intense. So, yes, there were times I would come across as irritable. As I look back about 5-6 months before she closed up shop on me I noticed that we were both more irritable. There was definitely a lead up. I never called her names or hurt her physicaly, we are just both guilty of defending our own standpoint over the other person. With that said, I always had a tendency to just let it go and let her win. It was never important enough for me to keep going. Much of my frustration was built around feeling stupid for being so forgetful and much of the time I 'think' my wife took that as not caring enough. 6 months ago I starting putting things together in my head and got checked out. Turns out I have ADD and anxiety. Had no idea, but it sure explains the forgetfulness.
I display low symptoms, which means my anxiety is high, but my ADD symptoms only pertain to focus and concentration. I take a low dosage of meds that help with my focus and my work has improved. Beyond that it hasn't made me a different person. I'm still laid back continue to give the appearance that nothing phases me ( which is why my having anxiety issues shocked me ).
I guess what I taking so long to say is that I'm non-confrontational. Always have been. I'm not scared of people so much as I guess I live in my own world. I've always looked at the bigger picture on things and I feel that no matter what, life could always be worse than today. No point getting bent on other peoples issues.
Am I letting her dictate my actions? Didn't think so, but the more I'm reading about MLC and drawing comparisons, I'm beginning to lose focus on me every now and then. I like what I do in several respects. I'd always felt I needed to do more for my wife and not just my kids. Now I am. I like the fact that I've developed a routine around several household chores.
I just want to tell her how I feel and I know that I'm not supposed too and that feels wrong. I want to tell her how I feel about her, but I know that would come across as desperate in her minds eye. I'm doing so many positive things that after more than a year I don't know if I should be happy that she finally speaks to me at all to tell me she resents me. It really is as if there is nothing I can ever do right for her and she will never open her eyes.
There's something I haven't tried, but I just don't know what it is.
I'm trying too hard to find logic in the irrational, but I can't help it. I want to know more.
To understand MLC, you need to understand about the OPPOSITE. It is irrational because it is about the opposite. HB writes about this in one of the sermons, and the science behind it is the change of the hormones to the oopposite of what they have been.
The MLC'er is unable to deal with this transition(of hormones) and goes into crisis.
As far as your wife and her job goes.
Quote:
It's one of Jim Conway's "Four Enemies" of the MLCer.....which are their spouse, their job, their body, and their God.
It is interesting how these four aspects of life contribute into the crisis and how it plays out.
