So these are my last couple of posts in my previous thread, which I just closed - I was looking for some feedback on this:
So I have a pretty big update tonight, but I don't know if I can write it all out - I want to relax and get to bed. Just a big R talk initiated by him.
........................
I should really go to bed, but I want to at least start writing some of the R talk b/c it's long and I may not remember everything tomorrow - but basically he was having his day with D (really doing me a favor - not his day) and I missed her a lot as I was out today, so I came home around 4 to see what they were up to - nothing. I offered to take her and give him some time since I sensed he was pushing for time tommorow, which has been a really nice family day time for us (Sundays) - he wasn't sure what he wanted to do -
I dropped the rope. Took KML's advice and said, "I dont' know, if you needed to look for apartments or something."
He was like, "Ah, IDK I just need to go to harbor freight and do something with the wood in the shed."
Anyway, I waited until he decided but he wasn't really deciding and so I kind of took D and he kind of went to his room and seemed happy about it - I just needed to get out of there for a while - so I drove to my mom's for the evening.
I was pretty darn depressed today, but it felt good to drive and I just kind of "seized the moment" and sang D's favorite B-I-N-G-O song the whole way... and tried to just get happy...
Um.... anyway, he just came in the room and is hanging out near me now so I think I'll stop writing and ... go to bed. I don't know if much has changed, but ... I'll try to write more tomorrow.
...................................
So I got home last night, and put D to bed, BF wasn't here, but he came home a few mins later. I was going to get online and go to bed, but he was pacing around the house and seemed like something was up. Later, I realized, he wanted to talk, but he basically got me in the kitchen, and started talking about his car - so I listened to car talk for a while, and then he brought up his sister (he's never usually this chatty) - his two sisters and mother are a topic we don't really ever bring up around here - there's nothing to say - they are psychotic, have threatened me, threatened him, and have been generally insane to us for the past 18 months.
He brought up his sister, and so I asked if anything was happening there, and he said no- he said she had invited him to something for her son but that he didn't know what that meant, and she needs to acknowledge his D (and I think he once said - me too - his family - but last night he just said D) and that he can't just let the past 18 months go just like that - which I was proud of him for since he can be a bit of a pushover in that way...
Then that convo was kind of coming to an end - I was just staying present to see where this was all going and then he picked up my friend's wedding invite which was on the kitchen counter (this scroll) he started saying "See, you think men aren't just boys, but they are" (I was saying my friend was kind of dorky and laughing at his medeival wedding theme)
He was like "You said men need to be men, even if we don't like to talk - you said that was just me."
I didn't know what he was saying, but I listened, and I said, "I don't know if I ever said that, really?"
He tossed something out there and whatever I said, I was trying to be reassuring. But the wedding invite was a little awkward b/c it's in September, and we were supposed to go - I used to live in Boston and I wanted BF to meet my friends and then go up to Maine where I used to live but we haven't talked about any of that. So he was saying something about me dressed in medeival garb..
But then we got to talking about D and I said how much D looks like his little sister (who doesn't talk to us) and how it kind of breaks my heart that she doesn't see her niece and that I guess I felt responsible for that stuff in his family - he said, "She maybe sees it as a woman taking a man away" (her dad left when she was 7 - and she's seeing me as taking away her brother)
Then he just said, "See, that's why I want to be more than a weekend dad."
At this point, I just listened for a long time - even if I didn't agree - he talked about how he sees it happening - we'd be friends, and we can ease the trauma on her by making it a nice thing when she goes to daddy's house, etc. etc. And he said, "IDK but I just don't want her to be traumatized and with bad men, etc"
At some point, I kind of said - that's all in our control, but what's not is getting involved in other Rs, and that's what she'll see too - and we don't know what any of that is going to look like yet - at least we can control our R.
He said, "It's not like I want to get into another R. He said, I may never want to - I just want to raise my D and do good in the world."
I listened a lot - again, he was saying more of this stuff - kind of painting a pretty picture and it all sounded very theoretically ideal. I validated and said, We'll thanks for saying that.
Then I said, Of course, I want to give that to you and of course I don't want to fight, but I just see things a different way. I said that we could be nice and all that, but there were a lot of different factors - like shuttling her back and forth, etc. How, when I was little, I always wanted my mom and couldn't imagine my mom not being there.
He suggested that was just me - and talked about my dad - and also his mom, and I said something to the effect that I'd love to just see our families heal - to not create more brokenness, but to just create peace
We started talking about what D will see of Rs and I said, Maybe if she sees her parents fight then make up, that would be good - she comes from a crazy family, but we all have to accept each other and show love. I said, she's not going to see a perfect R...
But I guess what I failed to say there, is that she's see our new R - not the old one.
See, I don't think BF has reference to this old one.
I talked some about what a friend of mine had said about us - he said, "You're like a regular married couple" and that we were actually doing okay. (I think things like this really reassure BF)
He said something about not knowing what to do b/c our R wasn't "sustainable"
I asked him if I could say something (again, I was trying very hard to listen - and I was panicked b/c I thought "I don't know what to say and I don't want to say the wrong thing and I don't want to pursue, etc") but I could see the convo was going toward him wanting to feel better about leaving and I just kind of gently turned it and explained how I'd been there myself with wanting to leave, but that I'd had a lot of support from friends who convinced me to stay and how I came out the other end and it was really freeing - that I'd committed myself to this and that that caused me to change a lot and get off our cycle...and that what I saw there was really beautiful. But that we hadn't given that a real chance yet so I realized I kind of lacked credibility.
I talked about other friends who divorced, and their kids, etc. and he wanted to kind of defend us and say we wouldn't be like that -
I may have said something earlier about him never wanting to be in this R and he said that wasn't the case - that it's never been a continuous feeling - it's been all over the place for three years b/c so much has happened.
I guess the final thing I talked about was he said something about my wanting D to have a perfect childhood - and I said, "What do you mean?" And he talked about my calling his dad a couple weekends ago to see if D could come home early - that I shouldn't have done that and just left it alone. I explained why I did that (her sleep issues, and my wanting to see her for 1/2 hour before she had to go to sleep) and then he brought up taking her to the diner -
I thought for a while, and I explained that part of our old bad cycle was my lack of trust for him - that with our not being married, everything that ensued with his family after we had D, some of my own ppd, that it combined to make me a little overprotective, but that I didn't mean to be - I said I loved that he took D to the local diner and they knew the waitress there and that they were just having fun. He seemed a bit disarmed/surprised by this -
I said, "Trust me, I don't want to be a controlling overprotective mom," and I said I wasn't trying to blame him or defend myself but that I'd recently seen my behavior in a new light and that I just had been really wary b/c of ways that he presents himself to me and his family went nuts on us and we had never talked about our future -
Okay, it sounded like blame, but the one thing I kind of wanted to do in the convo at some point was push back just a teeny bit b/c he was really headed in that "our R isn't sustainable" direction and that he's somehow a victim to it rather than it being both our faults.
I think I handled it in a way that he could hear, but also was gentle enough ...
So I had been crying at that point, and I said, "I didn't meant to take the convo here." He said, "No it's okay."
I said, "All right, well let's not talk anymore about this if that's okay for tonight." And he said, "Yeah, that's fine." And I said I was just going to go for a walk.
One thing I did clarify with him earlier was that I wasn't pro-R b/c I was all in love and clinging (sometimes I think he thinks that) but that I had just been given this gift of seeing something different for our R and that I have faith now and it's something we can be proud of - that *that* is what I was fighting for - and I said, "It's not what you think I'm talking about - an R where you have to talk all the time and do what I say" he laughed and said, "You always think you know what I'm thinking." I said, "Well it's not that you think I think what you think" and we were just laughing.
I went for a walk and came back and he kept engaging me in convo. I said sorry things got heavy and that I appreciate the communication, and he said "It's been an interesting three years" and he looked at me when he said it and I looked at him and we both laughed.
Lots more talking in his room and in the kitchen about different things - food, whatever. Then I sat down out in the living room to write last night, and he came out on the couch and started playing a game on his new bberry - and was like "Oh wow, look at this" like a kid - so I came over and looked. And he was telling me about this game or something.
Then later I was kind of saying good night when he was back in his room and he was like "I want to show you a picture of D on my bberry" so I waited, and he pulled it up, and it was them at the diner and I was just really enthusiastic and like "Wow, that looks so fun."
And that was that. WE're off to church soon.
Hard for me b/c as good as it feels to communicate, it's like my heart wants to open, but I feel very protected and - eh. whatever. That's all for now.
I'll wait until people comment on the update above before I post, but basically we spent 13 hours together today in NYC with D... it was really fun. But I still don't know what's going on. I'll write more details after I hear some feedback from last night's update.
Looking for input on last night's convo - I know it's long. Sorry. I just ... I have a few questions I want to ask but will make more sense if others have read the recent updates first.
Anyway, I'll just write my next update from today - we spent 13 hours together today. Basically, I let him sleep in this morning - D woke up at 7:30 (early for her) and he was pretty tired, so I took her out of the room and woke him at 9:30 - I joked with him that we ruled the world b/c we let him sleep (if I didn't say anything, he probably wouldn't even have noticed).
He showered, and we were 15 minutes late for church - which is usually a big trigger for me, so I just said "What should we do" I wanted to try leaving D at the nursery today so BF and I could attend service alone (we've bee at that church since Feb and always had her with us) - so he was like, 'Well, why don't we just get their really early for the next service, have bagels and hang out" - our church has coffee and bagels, etc. And so I was like fine -
Then we got there and did just that and left D in the nursery - I don't like to leave her crying, but today I just left her and walked out and BF stayed behind and then he came down. It was the first time we attended service alone. It was a little awk. b/c the music in the beginning is something D loves to dance to and we like having her with us, but we just sat there. We chatted about a few things here and there. And then we both pretty much dashed to go get her (we never left her alone like this before except with family or our sitter). BF was immediately looking for signs whether she'd been crying - they said she was fine - but BF didn't believe them (Okay - he can be worse then me). We got her in the car, and it was late and she was tired - so she was crying, and I started getting a little irritable b/c we had no plan (he mentioned something about driving to philly b/c a guy in church talked about a kids museum there and we were planning to go to one in NYC) but we just drove back home so he could get his sunglasses - we had a one-minute "tiff" about driving her around to fall asleep vs. just getting his sunglasses and driving to wherever we were going but it was nothing.
She fell asleep and we drove to the frozen yogurt place, so I could get some and ate in the car. We talked about everything for the hour it took us to drive into the city while D slept - a very pleasant mood and lots of "guy" talk about cars, and different things on his mind that he just talked and talked about (nothing really R-related, I don't recall) and I just was pleasantly chatty back, asking questions, listening, etc.
D woke, and we stopped and got pizza with her and it was really fun - it was so great to be in NYC - I haven't really been there in years now and used to go all the time.
Next we went to the kids museum and it was a joke. It was my idea, and BF paid $30 to get us in and was hyper worried about germs, and I was pretty relaxed, but it was a pretty stupid museum, so we stayed an hour - he kept telling me not to feel bad about it - b/c it was my idea.
So then he was going to show us his office, but I wanted to get a drink at the boathhouse in central park where I've been wanting to go for 2 years- I wanted to see his office, too, but it was still early and so we meandered down to the boathouse and found it and had a drink. Central park was a zoo and it was hot but we had a really pleasant time having drinks...
BF would say things throught the day - maybe only 3x total (not terribly much) but he'd say "next time we should go to blah blah blah" (which really means nothing) though at the boathouse while we were having a drink, he said, "I want another one" (meaning D) - he does just say this sometimes, but it kind of angered me oddly enough. I feel like he just says crap and it could lead me on -
So for the next hour or so of our day, I got into a bit of a weird mood (probably nothing he could distinguish) but we walked down to a bench in the park so I could nurse D and I was a bit tipsy from my drink and just hot and tired and we were sitting closely and he picked a pimple on my face (somethign he did on our third date - which we always talk about how mad I got at that) and he was like "You can reconcile our third date now" or something - and I felt myself drawing in close to him - not in a clingy gooey way - just kind of laughing and being whatever - normal - but then he said something like "With your next boyfriend, who is blah blah blah" IDK - but it pissed me off again and I felt like he plays games with me. And I just caught myself sort of drifting toward him (not physically just in my spirit) so I made a conscious effort to back off and just kind of let him go ahead with D in the stroller and just walk on my own a little - he did keep engaging me.
But we didn't get to go to his office, or do a boat ride, which I thought would have been fun b/c we still hadn't had dinner and it was D's bedtime - so we went and ate and it made him really happy to take us to this place he's talked about for two years- and he was disappoitned they didn't have something on the menu he wanted to get, and he kept asking if I liked it and D was cranky so she was sitting on my lap, so he started feeding me the appetizer (calamari) from across the table -
I really thought nothing of this - but I ... IDK - IDK what he was trying to do there. Should I have just not taken it from his fork?
I guess somewhere in the back of my mind, I started wondering if he just plays games.
Anyway, he paid (I had paid for drinks earlier which were SUPER expensive) and I thanked him outside the restaurant by kissing him warmly on the cheek - which he didn't seem to mind - then D wanted to kiss him) ...
He kept asking if I was just saying it was good, and I was like, No I loved it - we talked a lot about Italy while we were there.
He had to run around for a bit b/c we thought we had no more diapers left, but I found one, and we changed D, put her in the car, and took off for home (about 45 mins drive) - D fell asleep as he was telling me some crazy story aobut when he was younger that involved some girls and his guy friend and alcholo - it was kind of a pointless story -
But then we brought up something else about how he could take or leave NYC. And we got sidetracked. But I asked him about it again later, and he said he realized it doesn't matter - if he ever goes to Italy or goes to NYC or whatever (even though he works there) that he doesn't care - that nothing matters. He said he thought he was having an existential crises - and said he was thinkign about buying a motorcycle, but what diff. did it make just to drive it around the block and come right back home or something.
I was trying to follow what he was saying but it was kind of meandering and didn't make a lot of sense. I should have listened more, but I was tired, and I just gave him my take on it - which was that we each are responsiple for loving ourselves - that's how we save the world (he was saying something about wanting to do something meaningful) and I said, make you happy - then you can be an example to others. (I wasn't giving him advice, as much as I was just telling him my side of what i thought he might be saying)
Though, it's interesting b/c I think some of what he was saying was that it didn't matter - nothing made you really free - and he sort of said "If when we die we go back into alignement, then what's the point of being on earth?"
He was sort of saying it very casually - not like he was really serious.
Oh, one other thing I should mention is that he said something in the car about how I "yelled at him for two years" - and I said, "I think that sounds like one side of the story." I said, "You've been mean to me for two years." He said, "That's b/c you yelled at me for two years." Then I said, "It was b/c you were mean to me."
(It wasn't wholly serious - but that's all that got said).
The other thing which is something I wanted to ask you guys about is -
One of my 180s is that I want him to know that i think it's okay if he wants to go to one of his raves or ride a motorcyle or even buy one. That I used to get really crazy about that stuff b/c I was so immersed in baby-dom with D and I would freak out if he wanted to go to an all-night rave, or buy a moto - but now i feel like - heck if I care - just be a dad and stick around and be a partner - be a happy partner -
At one point, our convo allowed me to say this to him in an indirect way - he was talking about something and I said, "Why don't you just get a motorcyle" - I think he knew something was up with my saying that - but whatever - so he was like "I can't afford one right now."
Which was an odd thing to say b/c all day he talked about buying a boat or a helicopter (all moto replacements) but then tonight he did say he'd been thinking about buying one.
But that is my question - does that seem like I'm throwing myself at him?
I don't know how to communicate to him that I know I was wrong about that stuff in the past - not "wrong" but that i was pretty overprotective and now I just want him to be happy (I mean, i always did - I just didn't realize what a big deal that stuff was - the same way, say, he may not have recognized what a big deal Italy is to me) - I just imagine us in a R where each of us get our own time and what we need to be the people we are, but in our R we are happy b/c we feel "free" -
And after a day like today, what do you do? Say thanks? Go to bed and say nothing? Hug him? Eh, I'll probably just say "ciao"
BTW, if it's not already obvious, our R has never really been like this before - well, it has. Intermittently and it was like this in the beginning.
It's just so odd that it's sandwiched now between a hellish couple of years and his leaving. But it's real. I mean 14 hours together and driving home talking my ear off - joking and laughing and no fighting.
Oh, one other thing I should mention is that he said something in the car about how I "yelled at him for two years" - and I said, "I think that sounds like one side of the story." I said, "You've been mean to me for two years." He said, "That's b/c you yelled at me for two years." Then I said, "It was b/c you were mean to me."
(It wasn't wholly serious - but that's all that got said).
This is where you are supposed to VALIDATE, not argue!!! Instead of acknowledging that HIS experience was that you yelled at him for two years (and I have no doubt that was his experience) and that that must have been sad and scary - you went right into defensive mode and basically told him it was all his fault (which obviously it wasn't if you had postpartum depression at least some of it was due to that and not his fault at all).
OWN it - you weren't easy to live with, you scared the bejeesus out of him by becoming a crazy woman like his mom. Apologize for your part, without making excuses.
And no, he's not playing you. He's genuinely confused and torn. Keep dropping the rope, validating, and showing him you CAN be a sane loving rational human being.
Oh, one other thing I should mention is that he said something in the car about how I "yelled at him for two years" - and I said, "I think that sounds like one side of the story." I said, "You've been mean to me for two years." He said, "That's b/c you yelled at me for two years." Then I said, "It was b/c you were mean to me."
(It wasn't wholly serious - but that's all that got said).
This is where you are supposed to VALIDATE, not argue!!! Instead of acknowledging that HIS experience was that you yelled at him for two years (and I have no doubt that was his experience) and that that must have been sad and scary - you went right into defensive mode and basically told him it was all his fault (which obviously it wasn't if you had postpartum depression at least some of it was due to that and not his fault at all).
OWN it - you weren't easy to live with, you scared the bejeesus out of him by becoming a crazy woman like his mom. Apologize for your part, without making excuses.
And no, he's not playing you. He's genuinely confused and torn. Keep dropping the rope, validating, and showing him you CAN be a sane loving rational human being.
I'm coming a bit unhinged here, but hoping to pull it together. Tons of work pressure right now and can't do it b/c I'm so wrapped up in this - just had another meeting with the MC - it was really helpful.
I got up the morning and asked BF to help until 10 when my mom was supposed to get here
Typical of my mom she can't tell me when she's coming, loses her phone, gets here late, is leaving early - and so again it's the feeling that I can't really get what I need- I needed time for me to rest and recuperate but I don't know where to turn to get that right now - clearly not my family. Friends are giving support.
I'm so darn tired right now.
I got into a fight with my mom b/c while she is helping me, I really don't dig her attitude and then ignoring me when I talk to her - so I recognized what I have to go through just to have some help right now and felt myself get angry at BF because I take such amazing care of everyone of my D and everyone else (clearly this has to stop) BF closes the door to his room and worries about nothing - he has dedicated childcare - no one he needs to be accountable to- childcare that is practically free - shows zero appreciation, never has to negotiate to get what he needs - child care is always reliable always dependeable always on time - and by the mother of his child - so no guilt.
So after the argument with my mom, I went into his room and started crying. I said, "I'm just going to say this to you and in a way that is not angry - but you really have had it good these past two years with devoted childcare. Dependable. Never calls out sick, never late."
And then I left. It was good - not what I said - not what I did - but it is an improvement over yelling.
Then I had to print something before going to the therapist. and So I only opened his door a crack so he couldn't see me, and stuck my arm in to grab paper from the printer. He said "what happened" - (rare for him to ask) and I just looked at him and he got up and I went to him and he hugged me, and I just cried into his shoulder.
I felt like I could have kept crying or even raged, but instead, I soothed- and I showed him he could soothe me by sort of stopping crying and just resting in his arms for a few mins. We hugged a long time. He squeezed me really tight.
I said, "I'm so so sorry." and he said, "For what?" and kind of laughed - and I said, "For the anger. I never meant to be so angry."
Then I just pulled myself together and started to leave the room. I said, "This is very very hard on me. I'm doing the best I can to work and take care of our daughter, but no one really has any idea what it's like to do that and it's like I still don't even know what hit me - I said, then you get upset, and everyone turns to you and goes oh look what a crazy maniac Lila is no one tries to help, they just judge you and tell you to go on meds."
I said something else and then I said "I think" after - and he laughed like I was somehow charming. I said, "Why are you laughing?" He said, "You think? You're not really sure?" And he kind of said it like "you're cute" or "you're funny"
So I put a dress on and went to MC - all the time raging at this whole stupid mess of a pathetic excuse for a family system - how I'm the only one in IC out of my parents, his wacko family, my biotch of a sister, and him - and I just thought THAT is why I go to Italy - to get that sense of family and life that is NOT THIS.
(recognizing of course, I gotta change me).
I had a great session with the MC- she def. holds me accountable and doesn't let me not own stuff - but she also said about BF - that he hides behind me.
Like I brought up daycare and how that wasn't the answer for us b/c neither him or I want to do that, but that he'll use it against me sometimes or everyone will just throw it out there to solve stuff, but it solves little - and how ystrday was the first day we left her in the church nursery and it was a big deal and he was really anxious about it and kept looking for signs about whether she had cried and her diaper wasn't on right, etc. And the MC said, "Oh, so you did something different and he couldn't hide behind you anymore, it revealed his feelings."
And that was good to hear - b/c I know the daycare thing is just the tip of the iceberg for HUGE issues for us - and that's one - making me look crazy b/c I want to be home with our D and for the fact that I also have to work but Hiding his wimpy butt behind all that rather than standing up and saying "I want you to be home with her and I value that and will support that." It's like he just abandons me in that -
But anyway, she had a lot of good things to offer but did suggest that the R sounded very over with and that he has deep ambivalence and sounds emotionally immature - and that any woman dealing with him would be enraged as I am but that obviously I have to find new ways of dealing with the feelings of powerlessness - which I talked with her a little about and made me feel better.
I talked with her about my concerns b/c of our last MC and she really addressed that stuff with me.
She kept saying to stay where I am and I'm doing good b/c I'm not doing a one-up thing with him anylonger (the yelling) that temporarily makes me feel better - but which is damaging, and I'm containing myself better.
She said she doesn't see why I stay with him other than that I clearly believe my D is better off in a two-parent household and that she thinks I may want to leave him but really just want to kind of get where I need to be to take care of my D.
I said I did love him and do care about him and find it easier to be with him now that I'm less - uncontained - but that I really need to be heard on some things, etc.
And that it is hard to think about another man in my future b/c it's just so much better being with D and her dad (like yesterday) and also that I entered this wild and wacky world of parenthood with a partner, and that's heartbreaking for me to not have him in the picture -
But she's right, I don't really get a lot from our R - so she was also trying to address that with me at the same time.
I really feel like I wish I could go to her instead of my current IC - who I have been with FOREVER - but I guess I'm reserving her for helping me with BF - though I don't know when I'm going to bring him in there. Not sure what to do about that - and she's away next week.
One thing I talked to her about is his latest thing about wanting to save the world. I didn't update about this last night, but he showed me a photo of a baby in Somalia last night that really upset me - it was weird b/c he kept telling me to LOOK - and I got really upset and turned away and said I can't look. And then he'd narrate and say something upsetting.
Very weird. I just went to bed. But I talked with the MC about his newfound thing with saving the world and how he doesn't care about a motorcyle anymore, what difference does it make - and how he wants to go "make a difference," and I just think all the time HEAL YOURSELF -
She said, "Yep," and that when people need to do that they tend to look outside themselves for -
And I guess I was like that too in my early thirties. Heal yourself and your family and freaking THAT will make a difference in the world, okay? Don't go being gandhi so then everyone can praise you on what a great saint you are-
SO ANNOYING!
Sorry, i'm just really fired up today but actually doing okay with managing the anger. Even my mother today is making is stressful by her being here. So I will have to relent and put my kid somewhere and just freaking take care of me and her and I really don't know how to forgive anyone around that - my sister - my mother (who continues to act like another child that I have to take care of) - BF.
That's where I'm at with my anger - not acting it out; not being irresponsbilbe with it - but just not exactly sure what I'm going to do about it right now in terms of resolving it.
