This is my first time here. I have a lot going on in my head, so I hope not to ramble or provide TMI or TLI, as I attempt to summarize. Let me first say that of the different marriage/divorce books I picked up, Michele’s DR is the one book I can’t put down. Thanks, Michele, for your wisdom, tools and PMA regarding the sanctity of marriage. It's refreshing.
"ILYBNILWY" and “It’s not you, it’s me” is what W told me one evening after dinner four months ago. W said there was no OM, but that she was tired of being committed and wanted to experience life on her own. W gave us until the end of this year to stay together, for the convenience of serving out our apartment rental agreement as well as our DD being a December college graduate. At that point W would consider a D, and until then we could be amicable.
This came out of left field. To say that I was caught off guard would be an understatement. I had made W the center of my marriage, so this news really stung and I even lost 22 pounds without trying. Although we did not have the perfect marriage (there is no such thing), it had never been afflicted by alcohol, drugs, abuse or infidelity of any kind. It did have ups and downs, filled with laughter and joy, as well as tears and frustration – as would any marriage.
W’s epiphany of unhappiness made me immediately wonder if there was an OM. W’s story had flaws. In the following days, I began to notice contradictions in other normal everyday conversations. It became evident W was telling half-truths and providing misinformation, either to save face or spare me from the harsh reality of her digression, or both.
After reviewing our joint checking account, for which W is responsible, I found several suspicious transactions. One such transaction was for a cell phone payment not belonging to us. Assuming this was a charge W authorized for the (unknown) OM, I nonchalantly mentioned my intent to contest the charge. With a look of panic, W advised it was a one-time favor for (named) OM. Then, with a look of disapproval, W expressed annoyance that I had the audacity to look at our joint account. A few days later, a similar scenario occurred. At that point, W moved from our bedroom to the guest bedroom, as well as opening a personal account, as a means of separation.
Although, W still initiates a kiss on the lips goodnight, there are no ILYs or other forms of PT. W spends every evening/night at home and we still have light-hearted conversations, but when we do eat together it is quick-prep take out. During the day, when W is not at work, I’ve discovered she is with the OM, as he works evenings. W & OM breakfast/lunch together at restaurants with table service. I also found that W decorates OM’s place and is the named individual on OM’s utility bills, and this causes a little more concern, as I feel this could be more serious than just an affair. Furthermore, without getting too graphic, on more than one occasion the contents of the laundry basket have strongly suggested a PA.
(There's oodles more info I know, but in the interest of simplicity and not providing TMI, I'll leave it out).
Bottom line, I don’t want a D, but I feel time could be running out. I think there are four major questions I have:
1) W hasn’t disclosed anything, but I can’t approach her with what I know, so I pretend not to know. Is there anything I can do to encourage W to be straightforward? Attempting to talk about us won’t work… W would consider that nagging, so I leave it alone. The clock is ticking, and I’m not sure whose side time favors. 2) Their relationship is at the five month mark (six months is supposedly the average max), but it seems to be going strong. FYI, OM is 14 years younger than W. What’s the possibility/probability this could be more serious than just an affair? 3) Page 216 of DR suggests finding out what OM offers that I don’t. How would I go about obtaining that info? Since W isn’t telling me of OM, you can’t possibly be suggesting I casually contact OM…that would be risky. 4) Blood is thicker than water. I’m sure W told her family of her unhappiness. I wouldn’t think she’s told them of OM. What are the chances I can seek their advice on how to win her heart again? More importantly, can I do it without them circling back to her only to backfire on me?
Your thoughts and insights are most graciously appreciated.
Thank you! ___________
Me: 43 W: 44 Married: 14 No children together, 1 darling step-daughter: 21 OM: 30 ILYBNILWY: 3/2011 ???: 1/1/2012
Alright COG... let's get down to the straight goods...
You are confident there's an OM, but you don't want to confront W.
We find that confronting the WAS will always lead to... well... lies...
It will be said around here with regards to WASs, especially with EA/PA... believe none of what you hear and only 50% of what you see.
My W's OM is about 10+ years younger than her. I do not know the status at any given time, although it appears to be light and possibly infrequent... getting her "fix" as it were, now and them... I don't know, but suspect when the WAS goes after significantly younger OPs, it is probably more fulfilling... they feel young and invigorated... I'm just guessing...
You'll hear around here that an OP/EA/PA is like a drug to a WAS. There's no way to know how long it might take for her to kick the habit... if she does at all...
Everything else is pretty much said this way... you'll need to pull up your britches and start concerning yourself with YOU.
If you want ANY hope of getting through this a better man (and that's the goal, regardless if the M is saved), you need to start working on YOU.
Without it being your goal, becoming a significantly better YOU in ways that STICK (permanent betterment) might be attractive to your W and she may seek you over OP.
Another thing you'll hear around here is:
Become the man only a fool would leave...
So GAL, try some 180s, and be strong... what are some GAL activities or 180s you might consider doing?
Kaffe Diem gives wise counsel. Your story is eerily like mine and many others on this forum. It's almost like all of our wives are reading from the same script. Unlike you, I confronted my wife with evidence of EA about a year ago. She tried to blow it off as just friends, someone to talk to. As KD said everything they say can be consiered a lie. My wife has told me 4 times now in the last year that it is nothing and not an affair and she will end it. But it is like crack and she is an addict. She keeps going back. I don't know if she will ever be able to kick this habit. She has moved out of our home and filed for divorce and has the accelerator to the floor. You will find that there is nothing that you can say or do to control what she does and the harder she try, the faster she will run. You have to make this about you. You have to survive. You have to take care of you because no one else will. You have to make yourself the man that only a fool would leave knowing that she could be foolish enough to never come back to you. As counterintuitive and as hard as it seems, you have to get to the point where you don't care if she comes back. That may be the only thing that will affect her trajectory. Good luck.
Me:61 W:60 M: 26 No kids ILYBININLWY AUG 10 S: 5/20/11 D filed 6/23/2011
1) W hasn’t disclosed anything, but I can’t approach her with what I know, so I pretend not to know. Is there anything I can do to encourage W to be straightforward? Attempting to talk about us won’t work… W would consider that nagging, so I leave it alone. The clock is ticking, and I’m not sure whose side time favors.
There's nothing you can DO to stop her behavior. She has to make decisions for herself, she's an adult. You are correct, she will not disclose her behavior for the reasons you stated, either to spare you the details or so as not to suffer the consequences. Either way, you can't really enocurage her to be straightforward. If she wanted to be straightforward, she would have been. Straightforwardness that is coaxed by you rings hollow, if you ask me.
Taking it a step further, are you sure you want to know the details? If so, why?
In my opinion, now is actually the time to quit spying or gathering intelligence on her. You already know she is up to no good. I don't think you want to run the risk of letting your imagination get the best of you, and it can based on what you uncover when you spy. Mine did. Because after months and months of checking up on her, my mind dreamed up all these terrible scenarios of what my WAW was doing with OM, based on few, yet incriminating details. Made it very hard for me to ever think I could trust her again-that's why I think gathering intelligence backfires on YOU. At first glance into your situation, I think you need to chnage your persepctive to "ignorance is bliss."
Originally Posted By: caughtoffguard
(2) Their relationship is at the five month mark (six months is supposedly the average max), but it seems to be going strong. FYI, OM is 14 years younger than W. What’s the possibility/probability this could be more serious than just an affair?
She is having it both ways right now, as she gets to enjoy the confort of her home and the "excitement" of OM while you're not there. Disgusting. I suspect it's easier for these things to fizzle out when she actually is more heavily involved with the OM, like when they actually get close enough to have major fights of their own. If she's coming home to you every night, they probably never spend enough time together to get close enough to find out why their relationship wouldn't work out.
Not sure about the utility bills though. Sounds like she is just being taken advantage of. What do you think about this issue, specifically?
Originally Posted By: caughtoffguard
3) Page 216 of DR suggests finding out what OM offers that I don’t. How would I go about obtaining that info? Since W isn’t telling me of OM, you can’t possibly be suggesting I casually contact OM…that would be risky.
No, I don't think that suggests you contact OM. What that means is, be subtle and listen very well to her when you are having a conversation with her. Now, I don't personally believe in dignifying the other man's existance by talking about him. But if you do, or even if he never comes up, I think it means you should try to ascertain what makes her happy that you were not providing. But the key is, even if you find out, and you think you can improve, you have to improve for YOU, not for her.
Forget risky-I really do believe you shouldn't even dignify the other man's existence by so much as acknowledging him.
[=caughtoffguard] (4) Blood is thicker than water. I’m sure W told her family of her unhappiness. I wouldn’t think she’s told them of OM. What are the chances I can seek their advice on how to win her heart again? More importantly, can I do it without them circling back to her only to backfire on me? [/quote]
Don't even THINK about it.
That may be the single worst thing you can do if you want to DB. When it all started to go down in my situation, I spilled the beans to some very good friends of mine, (who were friends that my WAW had only met a handful of times.) Yet, immediately, I felt like garbage and that that was a mistake. Because I realized that if things were to work out, they would never be able to look at her the same again, she would never be able to look at them the same again, and I would be uncomfortable anytime we would all meet together for a party or cookout or anything.
I thank God to this day that about the only exposure I ever did regarding her was to them, and not her family or my family or our closer friends. What if things could get better between you and her, but things are majorly strained and uncomfortable every time you'd be around her family. Not a chance that is worth taking. DON'T DO IT!
I wish you well.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
This is hard to say and do but slowly start cutting her out of your life, physically, emotionally and financially.
She's the subset of WAW I call a cake eater. As others have said she is trying to have it both ways.
Keep DBing fix your flaws, GAL, and become a better man. Clearly if she is leading a double life she values some aspects of your life together. By improving yourself you are making yourself more valuable to her.
After clear improvements have been made start letting her go and semi going WAS yourself. Hopefully she will realize what she is losing, and what little she has to gain with OM. This is my interpretation of LRT.
Just be prepared cause she might not come back. That's why I suggest a slower more methodical approach to LRT built on a strong foundation of self improvement. Hopefully she'll realize what she stands to lose. If you drop an ultimatum too soon she'll run just to prove a point.
If you methodically cut her out she'll feel less pressured to justify her actions and more open to seeing her mistakes. A strong confrontation will just get her to be stubborn to defend her actions.
Let her freak out on her own because she is losing the best thing in her life, and will be stuck with what seems to be a user and a loser.
Now I know this is easier said than done. Last thing you want is to separate even more. It's hard but it works.
Remember the harder you chase the harder she'll run.
Now don't be surprised if she starts throwing the word divorce around. It'll hurt. Just remember this phrase it has helped many here:
"I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't want a divorce, but if it's what you really want there's nothing I can do"
This phrase is hard to say, but it disarms them. She'll blame all her actions on you. The affair is your fault, her unhappiness is your fault etc, etc, etc. The phrase let's her know that you want the marriage to work, but if she insists in destroying it, it's her decision. If you are DBing properly and removing her reasons for acting the way she did, then she has no one to blame but herself.
You are getting some very wise advice and you need to apply all of this to you. This isn't about her this is about saving you.
Right now you need to read posts from some of the vets on this board. You need to read about detatchment and dropping the rope. This isn't going to be easy and you must do it for yourself. Listen to the advice you get here and ask questions.
This isn't easy and it's a rough ride but it is worth your sanity.
Me 44 W 38 M 18 D 18 D 13 Bomb 10/21/2010 Divorced 7/19/2011 Just getting to the 7th inning!
Much appreciation to those who responded to my original post "Frustrated with W not admitting OM" for your insight, encouragement, and support. I plan to utilize your suggestions, as I navigate through this. I've tweaked the title, as I was hoping the original post would have yielded a few more responses. Perhaps that comes with experience of knowing what to post and when.
Anyway, one repeated suggestion was to GAL. Here’s another dilemma. My family & friend base is not local, but in another part of the country. I have no local support system, truthfully none. (GAL is a WIP and not as easy as I had hoped. See next paragraph). In my original post, I indicated our lease apartment lease expires at the end of the year, at which time my wife had earlier suggested we “consider” parting ways (hinting at D). At some point in October/November, we will be presented with the option of renewing our lease… at which time we will have no other choice but to discuss our future. Should we wait until then to discuss, or should it be discussed earlier? As some have pointed out, she does seem to want to have it both ways, but if she sticks to her original plan and desires not to renew a lease together, do I stay local and attempt to establish long term roots, or do I move back to my support system. Basically, staying local may not soothe my emotional pain, but moving away could make a reconciliation less likely. Should I stay or should I go? Thoughts?
Assuming I do stay local after the end of the year, I have found that making friends as an adult is much more challenging than as a child. So, while I may need to GAL now, it doesn’t seem as simple as I had thought. A lot of social activities tend to cost money, and we’re pretty much paycheck to paycheck. Also, most are singles oriented or couples oriented. I’m not exactly a single looking for love, and I wouldn’t exactly fit in the couples oriented either. Any suggestions?
These are some very difficult questions. I have a few questions to ask back before I think I can properly try to answer them.
First, can you go month to month on your lease following October/November? That might cost more but gives you lots of flexibility while dealing with this. If you can, and you can at all swing it, I think it would be very much worth it.
If you can't go month to month, and assuming you stay local, do you like the place you are living at now?
Can you just up and move to another part of the country? What do you do for a living? Can you quit your job just like that?
What would you LIKE to do to GAL? I know money is tight, but if it weren't, what would you be doing?
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
For me job would be concern #1. You're about to lose a lot, don't let your job be part of it. Because of my job my entire support network was away. So I made a new one. Made some great friends, doing so. I started playing card games at my local comic shop. A little geeky, but a a strong community. Find something similar along your interests.
As for moving away, it's a double edged sword. Just keep in mind that whatever you do she has to be kept at a distance. The distance she chose to have through her own actions.
I know a lot of people frown on WAW's that try to have it both ways. To me it's just a sign that they still value something in the M. Otherwise they would have completely left. Give her a chance to decide if her new life is so much better that she'd sacrifice her old one.
