This is my first post, so I don't really know how to start. However, I feel that I need to talk to somebody, and that is not happening with my wife now. So, I figured this would be a place to meet people who can talk with me.
My wife and I have been married for almost 18 years. They have been turbulent. Part of that is probably because I have Asperger's syndrome, which makes me fairly advanced in intellectual matters but very much deficit in being able to understand even the obvious, socially.
I don't suppose it makes sense now to try to give a narrative of our marriage. Put simply, for years we had a cycle of intense conflict (often due to my difficulty keeping jobs or organizing important things in my life - I also have ADD ) and intense love and affection. During the times of conflict she often threatened to divorce me.
Now that is not happening. All that was happening was she was getting irritated and offended by what I did (it usually seems to me that she is overreacting, but with my Asperger's it is just as likely that I am failing to recognize something positively offensive that I actually did), I become defensive and scared about what was happening to our relationship, I would lose my temper (which hasn't been happening for a while, since i have been in therapy) or become clingy to try to offset the distance between us, she would get annoyed with my clinginess...well, you get the picture.
Years ago, during one of our first major fallouts, one of my first therapists suggested "Divorce Busting." We bought a copy. Strangely, I can't find it now. Maybe we gave it away to a friend in a troubled marriage during one of the times we thought we had it "all sorted out." But recently I remembered the 180 technique from the book (had not actually thought about the book for years). I looked it up online, and found the list. I started doing it, and immediately saw results. Not in terms of returned affection (at all), but a serious decrease in conflict. I am just not expecting much of her, relying on myself, and speaking cordially but not excessively to my wife.
I haven't been keeping up perfectly with it, partially because I don't know where to set limits. As we had been getting along better lately, the other night I turned to my wife and asked, "Are you up for a quickie?" I said it casually, as though half joking, to cover the fact that I was really feeling isolated (I am told that seeking sex as a form of closeness is not just an Asperger thing, but a "men" thing in general). I guess that was a pretty clear departure from the "180" program, and I guess I shouldn't have gone there, but there do not seem to be any negative results. She said no, particularly because lately we haven't really been talking, and she feels that it is inappropriate for us to have sex without much of a relationship. I can respect that.
A few minutes later, she turned toward me and told me, "I'm not angry with you." I'm not sure you will understand what that meant to me. You see, with such difficulty understanding social interaction and the implied meanings of words, I often miss when there is anger if it is not clearly stated. So, I often find myself wondering if someone is angry with me, especially on so sensitive a subject, or when someone tells me no. Her decision to clarify that point for me was a move of consideration on her part - she knew an area where I struggle, and she chose to recognize it and act to relieve it. I was very touched.
So, here I am, trying to continue (or get back on track) on the 180. But in the meantime, I do feel very lonely and isolated. And I worry - how long does this last. How will I know when it has "worked?" How will I know when to start opening up to my wife again, as the 180 feels like I am closing off to her.
I know that this post is pretty tangential, so thank you for your patience in reading. I'm just hoping to strike up some conversations with people, to talk to someone about my feelings and experiences, maybe even develop some online freindships (not really looking for IRL, but then, people here are from all over the country, so what is the chance of an actual meetup anyway?).
Hello, community. Anybody wanna talk?
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Well, I've read and commented on a few other people's posts, and as the advice is given to keep one thread running, even if only as a sort of journal, that is what I intend to do.
Kinda funny, wife the other night refused sex, saying it was inappropriate with the minimal state of our relationship as it is. Next night, she turned to me and said, "I know this sounds awful, but I'm really horny." There have been other times when I would have been confused, and questioned the inconsistency with this. I think there is something about doing a 180 that makes me feel less compelled to make sense of things in our relationship. At any rate, whatever the cause, I realized that I didn't want to shoot myself in the foot by asking why the change in attitude, and obliged.
I resolved not to make a big deal out of it, just filling a need of hers and mine. But afterward, she initiated spooning with me, and the following night she was still keeping slightly closer contact in bed.
I guess it's probably a hormonal thing, you know - the oxytocin rush after sex makes people want skin contact. But hey, don't those hormones serve to reinforce deeper feelings and commitments we have when our relationships are healthy? In other words, I'll take it!
It's really hard to keep it casual, especially since after sex my whole being wants everything to be close and intimate again, and I want to rush into her arms and expect everything to be better. But I know it's not. And I know that having my whole life center around her was never healthy to begin with. I've always had difficulty making freinds, because I don't understand social interaction very well, so I guess I have always had very few intense relationships in my life. So right now, I don't just have to work on my marriage, but on my whole pattern of relating to other people.
Well, I guess I will look at what some other people have to say.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
180's are changes you make in yourself because you want to, because you see a need for them.
If you're doing these 180's as a temporary solution to fix a problem, that problem will come back once you stop doing them, and you will.
Your wife will see them as a trick because they don't last, and she'll be right.
Sooo...
Are you making 180's because you see the need or feel the want to makes some changes in yourself?
Divorce Busting is the older book, the newer version is called Divorce Remedy and worth getting again.
Another book? Not all men equate sex with love...but enough of them do. The 5 Languages of Love, or something similar. Lets you know what you see as signs of love, but just as important allows you to see what your wife views as symbols of love.
We give what we want. For you? Physical touch...but if that is not your wife's, then she won't respond the same way. She won't give that to you as much as say...Acts of Service.
A worthwhile book to go hand in hand with the DR one.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Thanks for your reply, Jack. The truth is a mix of reasons why I am doing this. I started doing the 180 in an attempt to get my marriage back...was entirely counterintuitive for me, but things have been bad enough that I knew I had to do something different, and felt like I had nothing left to lose.
W is not asking for divorce, but there has been a sort of emotional departure from the relationship. She has been very forthright about the fact that she has not wanted to be with me emotionally, that she does not trust me, etc. When I tell others the situation seems like less than it is, but in the context of our marital history, it is more than it seems.
So, while I started out doing this only in an attempt to return our relationship, while I have been doing it I have been, I guess, "growing" a little. Realizing that some of these things have needed to change. Which is not to say it hasn't been very difficult. Sometimes, trying not to pursue, just trusting that things will get better if I just persist, has me white-knuckling it through the day. And I do feel isolated without more interaction between us. But I also feel more secure, less afraid of being abandoned, when I am treating myself like my needs count for something.
So, I guess the reason why I am using these strategies is mixed.
Anyway, still plugging away at it. Taking the kids on a camping trip for a long weekend, and will have to continue keeping it cordial but casual. Maybe eventually she will start pursuing me. Wouldn't that be a switch.
Anyway, thanks again. Have a good weekend.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Well, here I am again, after the long weekend camping. Don't have much time, but need to write a couple of things down. Amazing how much more motivated I am to write here than in a personal journal. Maybe here I feel like I am telling somebody my stuff, rather than writing it down where it will never be seen. Anyone reading, feel free to comment.
I know that this is not an Asperger's forum, but I happen to have that particular condition, and I have to say, sometimes it [censored]! One of the big problems for me is my failure to understand things that are not stated directly. One night, while we were camping, I was getting ready for bed, and W commented, "Aren't you going to get undressed?" I was wearing what I have worn to bed for the last couple of years, as W and I have not slept nude together, routinely, for the last couple of years. The first thing that went through my mind was, "Why would I do that? I never sleep that way." Struggling to understand what she was saying and what was expected of me, I stammered for a while, and reached for my waistband (nevermind the fact that I have been trying to do things independent of W, as a part of the 180). She saw this and got frustrated, told me to "forget it," and we both went to sleep.
Only later did the idea dawn on me, "Was she coming on to me?" And I guess that my reaction probably made her feel rejected. That's where having Asperger's [censored].
I realized over the extended weekend that I had some success doing the 180, but as soon as I saw W beginning to smile at me, I had an overwhelming urge to give up the whole thing just so that I could "drink it up;" this openness to me has been just what I so wanted, and it is hard to keep my separateness from her, rather than appearing desperate all over again. Sometimes I have more success, remembering to at LEAST pretend to enjoy the time together while remaining relaxed. Other times I totally botch it up, looking desperate, pathetic, and, I am sure, completely undesirable to someone who wants a relationship with a whole person, rather than a half looking to be completed.
Maybe realizing my current failings in this effort is just part of the process of learning to do it better. Anyway, I'm taking a deep breath, calming myself down, and learning to like myself as I am, as my therapist keeps telling me (by the way, my therapist was really impressed with the 180 list I showed her, and will be reading up on Michele Weiner-Davis's work).
Anyone reading, feel free to comment or contribute. Would love to hear.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Psych, I feel for you. There were times in my life where I figured I could have been labeled ADD or diagnosed with Aspergers... I have a community of friends who have varying degrees of labels including Aspergers and varying forms of autism...
Not sure what to offer as suggestions... what I expect, is you are always in "thought"... so asking you to "think outside of the box", I get you'd have no problem...
That's where I get that the "bed routine" was... maybe could have been better...
I don't know how you could "BE outside the box"... how you can turn off the thinking and just be a little more... spontaneous... maybe practicing by setting up little, safe scenarios and thinking through how "spontaneous" might come through in those times...
Thanks for your comment. You are right - although I am not always lost in thought, my mind almost always seems to be in "thinking" mode, instead of "feeling" or "doing." Feeling is actually a little scary for me, as it does not make clear sense nor is it under my complete control, as is thinking. And because I have difficulty processing feelings, when I let my feelings lead me I frequently lose control and then...well, bad things happen. Let me be clear, I am NOT physically abusive, but I can have a temper, and feel very ashamed afterward.
Your suggestions, (BE outside the box) and strategy are intriguing. I will have to spend some time thinking about that, to see if I can make sense of how to make that happen. I think it might be useful.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
I get that bit about feeling being scary... It took me a long time to allow myself to be comfortable with allowing myself to feel and be vulnerable...
But it gets easier... and it's enlightening...
It took me a long time to be able to "turn off" the thinking... like I said, I was never diagnosed, but I wonder some times... I also never took an IQ test... because I just didn't want to know that I had to "live up to" being smart...
I think that practicing feeling in a safe environment and allowing yourself to be vulnerable... it's a good thing... just be sure to do it in small doses... until you get used to it... I'm guessing you're more likely to harm yourself than anyone else... not good, but the better of the two evils... don't beat yourself emotionally up if you have trouble with it...
See, the thing is... you actually DO have feelings... shame is a feeling... anger is a feeling... feeling out of control, is a feeling... you just lock them down so deep, because they scare you... that's OK... let them out a little at a time... play with them... feel safe with them... they're fun... once you get used to them....
And as far as DOING... I know you're going to think about this for a little while... but let me just put something out there for you... have you ever been walking down the street, after a rain... and you see that puddle on the street... and you wonder... about the puddle... and how much water is in there and how it ripples from the wind and noise vibrations... the rainbow of colours in it from the oils on the street... and as you're walking by it... suddenly... you just JUMP IN IT!!!!
Sometimes... it's OK to do FUN things, just because... and in your case, doing something harmless and fun... regardless of the consequences of dirty clothes or your W being upset because they need to be washed... you just DID something... without thinking about it for longer than a pico second...
) and intense love and affection. During the times of conflict she often threatened to divorce me. 
