Not new, been here several times but limping along especially badly for about a year. I'm 57, he's 54. We survived an affair of 4 yrs that started around 2 years into the marriage that ended on d-day in June 99, so we are coming up on 12 years. Earlier that year he lost his job, he got a new job and we were in the process of moving 1,000 miles from my daughter, our grand daughter, and the OW. First year post affair was the most painful and confusing of my life and I'm no stranger to some pretty severe trauma. I had to start antidepressants before I could even fathom many concepts from this site. But the support, empathy, and wisdom I found here was a huge help. Today several things, inside and outside of my marriage have just felt so painful.
I know I must stop looking to h to help with many of the issues.
In the marriage one of the big problems is sex. I was on those antidepressants for many years following the affair and finally got off them more than a year ago. Hoped to "get working again" as I can't manage satisfaction "the good old fashioned way" while on them. Felt like I couldn't get my h to appreciate what I needed/wanted no matter how many times I told him and even though I kept saying let's try, attempts on both our parts became fewer and further between. Please, no one try to tell me that he is obviously having an affair, like happened last time I was here. According to Michele 101 and wisdom, that's not what's important and is energy misdirected. If he is and I find out I will deal with it with a divorce. I am not made of stern enough stuff to get through another one. I am all too aware it is possible but I'm staying focused on living my life and will not waste time playing detective.
Back to the issue, to his credit, my h got some viagra, and if we had kept trying that on a semi-regular basis, when I was feeling awake, with him having a shaved face (stubble can really hurt guys), him not drunk (major turn-off for several reasons), and with a bit of mindful, tender touching, I'm pretty sure the magic would have happened. I told him many times, as nicely and creatively as I could manage that these few requests would really help. However, frequency was so rare that several weeks ago when he woke me in the middle of the night, I thought, "well at least it's an effort" and endured stubble burn and a quickie, trying to enjoy the rare touching. I remined him later that being awake and no stubble were important and could he please keep that in mind. Then I started having trouble sleeping for several reasons. He knew it was getting severe but woke me again in the middle of the night. This time I said "no thank you" and couldn't get back to sleep and wandered the house for the rest of the night. Later, I reminded him how much trouble I was having sleeping and asked him to please, not wake me in the night. The third time, this is over maybe 2-3 weeks, I made an involuntary noise of hurt and pulled away, first time ever in 18 years of marriage.
Now I'm not attracted to him. I told him and suggested we try to do something about it like another try at Retrouvaille. He says that's too painful. First try was during that first year and it helped me a lot but it wasn't long before he didn't want to keep writing. He knows I'm writing here now and went recycling and shopping.
Lastly, I will add the worst problem: When I am down, he gets twice as down and I have to pull both of us out. I know probably most folks here can relate to that. OK I'm rolling up my sleeves. I'll have to make it better, I accept that. Just having a rough time finding an end on this big ball of tangled string. I will probably need antidepressants.
So sad because we have happy things happening: that grand daughter is graduating from HS and daughter has found the "love of her life" and is getting married in Sept which will give us a 4 yo grandson! We both feel a bit concerned about the marriage, H a lot, I'm trying to get onboard. Of course there are many other problems in the marriage but there have been some very good times too. I remember a few years back sitting in our chairs with the dog and both of us feeling very grateful. Maybe we're better with me giving up on sex and on meds. There are much, much worse fates. Maybe it's time to stop whining, get the meds, and kick my big butt into better shape. Absolutely sure there are many folks here in much more acute pain and I'll try to help. There is life after affairs but you have to keep working at marriage.
OK, sorry if this is just a blubbering party today, I'll do better tomorrow.
me: 57 H: 54 M: 18 y Affair over on Dday: 6/99 Never split-up but it was a hard road D: 38 GD:18 I forget so I come back here I know these principles are the way to go which ever way it goes!
OK, regrouping commencing: No more OR words out of my mouth, none, nada for at least a few days. Civility and kindness is my rule. I love him, I'm just not feeling attracted and I'm angry but I'm getting a grip. This is a path I know, I can do it... H wants to go to see my therapist with me a good move but I certainly have learned to keep low expectations. We'll go, he can be the primary talker if he likes and I will try to listen really well. He said that tonight he would work on a promise he made to me many years ago. If he doesn't I will say nothing. I might not drop it forever but ...oh my goodness, I think he's working on it. Caution my heart and focus on staying the course.
me: 57 H: 54 M: 18 y Affair over on Dday: 6/99 Never split-up but it was a hard road D: 38 GD:18 I forget so I come back here I know these principles are the way to go which ever way it goes!
OK now a dilemma. I haven't been able to relax upstairs in our bed even though I've tried, for about a week, so I've been sleeping downstairs and falling asleep listening to books on tape. I can concentrate on that and relax enough to sleep. Guess I'll go up and check on him. The aforementioned promise was about legally adopting my daughter. It would make it so much easier for her if something happened to us. He talked to her about it and brought papers the last time we were up there but he didn't fill them out properly. Kind of like proposing and forgetting the ring. It's been nearly a year and he still hasn't done anything. Ouch. It feels so terrible. I really do have a hard time understanding that he really wants this marriage, this family when he doesn't follow up on something as emotionally charged as this. I feel like a fool. I feel like he is treating my daughter poorly. We are about to go up there again and months ago when the trip was planned, (it's our grand daughter's graduation), I asked if he could finish this up. He is so conscientious at work how can he not take care of something like this if he's committed to us? I feel like a half dead mouse that this cat, my H, who is supposed to love me, is playing with. I suppose it really does sound to most people here like he is having an affair and I'm in denial. Entirely possible. Whatever the reason, this is hurting my self respect. I don't want to have to live begging for crumbs any more. Time for a plan that will help restore some dignity. Still not one OR word for several days. This is an internal job of dignity repair. I'm staying down stairs not out of anger, out of self preservation. I'm turning up my charm meter. Doing some life affirming activities, GALing big time here I come but folks this is really hurting and I need some help.
me: 57 H: 54 M: 18 y Affair over on Dday: 6/99 Never split-up but it was a hard road D: 38 GD:18 I forget so I come back here I know these principles are the way to go which ever way it goes!
I guess I'm confused about the need to adopt your daughter who is 38 and has an 18 year old daughter of her own. I've never heard of adopting an adult, but I guess you learn something new everyday. Still, why is it important for him to adopt your daughter?
Wait...what is the problem? You want him to adopt your d but your reasons are vague and insufficient. You might be getting bad FEAR BASED legal advice (or leaving our important info)
He can leave ANYONE a bequest or property in his will. So all he has to do is put her in his will and either disown any natural born children, or leave them other assets. She does not have to be adopted by him to protect her in the event of your deaths.
Is there some other reason or agenda you have for wanting her to be seen as his legal daughter? The wills and estate planning can get around the need for it IF the only reason is your fear of her not inheriting in the event of your deaths....
Also-- you can buy life insurance naming her as the beneficiary, (regardless of any legal or familial relationship to him/her or the dog or cat!!) and that does NOT go through the estate OR the will/probate and life insurance proceeds are NOT subject to taxation.
Life insurance is really a contract between a policy holder and a company to pay a 3rd party (your daughter the beneficiary) money in the event of the death of the policy holder.
So why do you really want him to adopt her? Is she disabled? Am I missing something?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
We have a living trust, not that we are really wealthy enough to warrant it, but I am likely to inherit a good bit of money from my parents. When we set up the living trust the lawyer said, and we have since confirmed with a financial planner that in the state of AL things would be easier for her were she my H's legal daughter. I ought to know more precisely why, having heard it a few times now, but I don't. It is something about the mechanics of the living trust. I zeroed in on the take home message which was do this legally. And why not? It's very simple.
The reason this is so charged is that my daughter was abandoned twice by her bio-dad and when we married she asked if my H would adopt her just to have a real dad. He declined and I had to tell her and it broke her heart. She was 19 and pregnant. We told her that if she kept her baby she was on her own. Thankfully, she rose to the occasion magnificently and seeing how responsible she was, we started helping out, not supporting her but helping with some extras and baby sitting a lot. My dear husband who never wanted children, went from bachelor to grand father in 4 months, although he insisted that our grand daughter call him by his first name, and not grandpa. I do not doubt that my H loves and admires my daughter. She is very easy to love. He doesn't tell her often but when he does he's very sweet about it. So last time we visited, he told her that he would like to be her legal dad. She knows that the lawyer and financial planner suggested it also.
me: 57 H: 54 M: 18 y Affair over on Dday: 6/99 Never split-up but it was a hard road D: 38 GD:18 I forget so I come back here I know these principles are the way to go which ever way it goes!
I have step parents that have been in my life for twenty plus years...
They love me and my child as if I were their own. Is that how your H now acts toward your children and grandchildren? Because if he does, I don't know that I would see this as much of an issue really. It is the feelings and the behaviors that matter.
I do want to ask about the problems in the bedroom. When you were on antidepressents, was there no sex? And you were both ok with it? What is it about him that you don't find attractive?
I realize that an affair is devastating. I am sorry that you went through that. However, the damage can be repaired and overcome. Do you think that you have really worked through your feelings about that?
I see your H trying to be intimate with you and you putting a lot of boundaries and conditions on it (which I did at one point). To a man, that can make them feel very undesirable. When a man does not feel wanted and appreciated by his SO, they begin to shut down to them. And that DOES leave them vulnerable to OP. I am NOT suggesting that he is having an affair, nothing you have said indicates that to me, but the potential for it seems to be there. Especially with rejections from you mounting. Is there more you are't sharing?
Because your conditions...can all be worked with...except maybe his shaving. That might just be something you have to learn to live with. I know it is uncomfortable at first, but after a day or two, that hair gets soft.
When you are awake, maybe initiate a bit while you are awake instead of waiting until bedtime. There is NOTHING wrong with sex when you come home from work or in the early evening.
When he isn't drunk. I understand the importance of this. Is he drunk often? Again, why don't you initiate when he is sober?
Do what you need to do to get yourself in the mood...Wear sexy underwear during the day instead of comfy cotton briefs, read a steamy romance novel and let your imagination drift, do something a little bit out of character and playful.
In this day and age, the woman must take as much responsibility for the sexual aspects of the marriage as the man. We have to make them feel just as wanted, appreciated, loved, respected and desired as we want them to make us feel.
Not all men are romantics, which is unfortunate because I believe that romance helps greatly in making a woman feel appreciated and loved and desirable. And not all men HEAR what we are trying to say when we communicate to them with words, especially at first and in this arena...
Even if we try to say it creativly, they hear rejection. That they aren't doing it right, that they aren't pleasing us...Even though men have a natural sexual drive, in order to be the object of something more than physical, they have to know that we want them as well.
The best way to get that message across, is to show them. And after you show them, then you talk a bit. Not R talk, just about what you liked, what he liked or didn't...How you might like to do this or that again because it made you feel this way or that way...
Those are my thoughts based on what you wrote. I can't help feeling like there is something more going on though...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Need more info as I share Cat's feeling. Something isn't clear here. And as a L, I still don't get the need for the legal adoption as even legal trusts can be amended for others. Does it look too materialistic to him?
What's also odd is that you married him knowing he really does not want kids or grandkids. Does he take NO joy in those R's? Did he ever? I mean, this is not new behavior correct?
And though I never condone A's, sometimes I think women almost set their h's up for it.
More importantly, how would things be different now, than before?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks for the replies folks and for the food for thought.
You are right that here are several long stories that are adding stress right now. One that can be related quickly is that my Mom is going downhill with Alzheimer's and my relationship with my Dad is tough. Guess that's actually two issues... On a very bright note, he is astonishing us with the job he is doing taking care of her. We had no idea he had that much patience in him. That is what's most important now. It's OK that he's taking out frustration on us, he must have a LOT of frustration. Plus I'm feeling very guilty for letting him have it right back on one occasion and have tried to make amends for that.
As far as my H not wanting children, he was physically abused by his dad and didn't trust his parenting skills. He also knew he was going to invest too much of himself in work to be a parent. He likes children, just didn't want the responsibility. My daughter was 16 when we met and in many ways was already like a little adult. They got along well from day one but it was a huge challenge when she became pregnant. Long story there and many other complications made life especially difficult during that period. That was a log, long time ago. There is no doubt that he dearly loves both my daughter and our grand daughter. Family is very important to me and his good relationship with my daughter was one of the big reasons I fell in love with him. He was so sweet to her.
Regarding the living trust and adoption, I'm just going by the advise of two professionals who I have no reason to suspect gave us faulty information. Sounds like you may be a lawyer yourself, 25, or well informed or experienced?
I don't think he sees the situation as materialistic and even though it's hard for me to understand not making it a priority., he may just see getting the paperwork done as a bothersome chore that he's been putting off. I have offered to do it but he is a do-it-yourself guy about things like that.
I understand what you all are saying about setting him up for an affair. I can do a certain amount of acting "as if" but I don't want to cross the line into just being dishonest whatever the consequences. One of the worst things about our recent sexual devolution was just feeling like the only way he would hear me THAT WHEN I'VE HAD INSOMNIA FROM TONS OF ISSUES AND I'VE ASKED YOU NOT TO WAKE ME UP WHEN I AM FINALLY SLEEPING, PLEASE, PLEASE, DON'T WAKE ME UP!!!! was to make a federal case out of it. I go to huge lengths to make his workaholic life easier to bear! I don't get angry easily, in fact it takes me a while to even register anger but unfortunately when the last straw falls and I finally register it... it takes me a long time to calm down again :...( That was supposed to be a teary face... Sometimes I even have a good sense of humor and most folks would describe me as cheerful. My husband has described me as positively ebullient. He said alcohol wasn't an issue that night. I'd actually feel better if that were the explanation.
About the alcohol, he is an abuser not an alcoholic by most standards, but it certainly has caused problems between us and for him socially at times. Once in a while he gets sloppy, pass out drunk. I would estimate that he gets over most legal limits on average about 3-4 times a week so it includes work nights. I'd not be able to function but this is a guy who will go to work no matter how sick he is. He has not gotten sloppy drunk for a long time. To his credit, during this several day trouble spot, I don't think he has gotten drunk and I think at least one night he didn't drink at all.
Cat, I will see what I can do with your suggestions, thank you for them. Maybe he would just grow a beard again or try one of those half beard styles so we can get to the soft stuff. He's just got a very heavy beard and by evening he's mighty prickly.
Getting an appointment asap with my therapist. Writing and getting some feedback really helps though. Thanks again
me: 57 H: 54 M: 18 y Affair over on Dday: 6/99 Never split-up but it was a hard road D: 38 GD:18 I forget so I come back here I know these principles are the way to go which ever way it goes!
Ah, yes 25, now I see it, you are a l. Are things so differnt state to state? However he spoke to my daughter about this and as I explained it is a charged issue for her and as you can see it's a charged issue for me too, it's a feeling so it's neither right or wrong. Perhaps I should have handled it differently but we are supposed to have a committed relationship and that means honesty about how one feels. My H is not a romantic when it comes to commitments and romance. We discussed getting married on the phone, he said, "I guess we should get married?" because he was moving half way across the country and wanted me to come. Wish I'd thought myself to be worth a real proposal then so maybe that's why I'm asking for more now.
As to sex while I was on meds it got less and less frequent/ There's a rather dated song that describes the sitch, it's funny, and I desparately need a little levity, let's see if I can find it...well the videos on you tube are poor, too bad! but here are the words... this is like my husband in many ways... http://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/boomframe.jsp?query=sensitive+new+age+guys+lyrics&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D44b2a24cb8ff0b9f%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3Dsensitive%2Bnew%2Bage%2Bguys%2Blyrics%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.lyricsmode.com%252Flyrics%252Fc%252Fchristine_lavin%252Fsensitive_new_age_guys.html%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSISPTop%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lyricsmode.com%2Flyrics%2Fc%2Fchristine_lavin%2Fsensitive_new_age_guys.html oh my!
me: 57 H: 54 M: 18 y Affair over on Dday: 6/99 Never split-up but it was a hard road D: 38 GD:18 I forget so I come back here I know these principles are the way to go which ever way it goes!
