I'm lost. need help with WAW

[GAL Man]

I stumbled across this website a couple of days ago, and have been reading
the islander thread from the start and have seen how helpful everyone is on
here, so cut short a BBQ to come and tell my story and hopefully get some
help and advice. Sorry for the first long post but I have tried to condense
it.

BITS

H - 37
W - 38
Together - 16y
Married - 12y
Daughter - 14
Son - 12
Date of WAW - 14/04/11

My Story (WAW)

Things have been getting worse of the last couple of years tbh, and whilst
we did try at things IMHO we only touched on the surface. In the last couple
of months things had got bad for me and I had become very down with the way
W had been treating me, no affection (but were still having S), snappy,
moody and even starting to shout at me in front of friends. I didn't read
the signs.... At a friends BBQ on 10/04/11 she did it again, resulting in
the next few days me being down and moody with W, and this created a circle
where she would be worse.

14/04/11 she said that she wasn't happy with R, so thought we should
separate! If left within the hour to stay in a hotel in another city as I
had to be there early for work anyhow and thought it would be good to give
her some space and returned the following evening. We had a conversation
where she said we have been here before, nothing had worked and that she
hadn't been happy for a few years now. She slept in D's double bed the next
couple of nights. I knew things were not good, but not this. I am 99% sure
there is no OP as she doesn't have much time for job, me, home and kids let
alone anyone else, but hey, I didn't know this was going to happen either!

I then stayed at my friends for the next couple of nights (my 2 best mates
are single) and she then stayed at her friends in another town for a couple
of nights as her friends in our town are married with young kids so do not
have room for her, or even want her around much as they have their own
lives. She then stayed in a hotel for 3 nights as I said I had to be at home
with kids as it was holidays so she needed to spend some time away. I also
did this as it was usually me who stays away, and I wanted her to feel being
in a lonely room without usual home comforts and only your thoughts.

I sent her an honest letter on 18/04/11 being completely honest in saying
where I felt things had gone wrong, (her being moody, jealous of 2 of her
friends becoming close and excluding her, clashing with D, all of which I
felt she then took out on me, made me in a bad mood to her creating a
vicious circle) I also pointed out where I felt I had gone wrong. We had
some email tennis then and when I asked where she was staying the response
was that I wanted her out of the house so she didn't see as it mattered,
which I felt she turned it around to me!

She returned home on 21/04/11 and slept in D double bed with her again. On
Sat 25 we had a conversation and she admitted that she had been horrible to
me (a bit*h in her actual words) and said she was so sorry for making me
feel so sad and that she just wanted me to be happy and that she was not the
person to do this. I said to her that all I wanted was to be happy with her,
for us to be happy, and that I felt that I should be the one leaving, not
the one saying lets work at things and that I love her, to her reply of she
didn't want to work at things any more, I'm a nice guy and now realises how
much I love her and how badly she had treated me. (Should have realised I
should have told her I love her more, but didn't). She said that she didn't
know why she had been treating me so badly, only that she felt I talked down
to her.



A couple of days later we had another open honest conversation, and I said
we obviously have feelings for each other otherwise we wouldn't have these
conversations, but we cannot make each other happy, and its been getting
worse for some time now, to which she agreed with. I said that when we had
issues in the past but we never ever talked about them as in-depth as we are
now, and if we had done this a couple of years ago and were still in this
position now I would say lets part, but we hadn't and we can make it work. W
said no, we had tried and it was no good. I said you sent me a text only 3
weeks ago telling me how much you loved me, to the reply of "I was putting
issues to the back of my mind..."

Next day W changes her fb status to single and removes all rings!! Later
that evening when I found out and she realised how hurt I was she removed
the single status from fb and the post on her wall.

Wife wants to move out and rent for 6 months and see. We have agreed to the
current finances (She has car, I have cash as I have a CC), but she has
asked me to lend her the money so she can put down 6 months rent in advance
and to take it off any final settlement (i.e equity in property) which I am
not sure about. She is viewing two rentals on 03/05/11, and saw one on
30/04/11

Asked her if we were doing the right thing, to which I got the reply "I
think so"... I then asked if she would consider C, to which she said don't
know, I might go to 1... I told her I loved her and that I didn't want to
just throw 16y away without trying and exhausting everything first, to which
she again replied that she thought we had and that was it. She knows I love
her deeply and that I want to work at it.

Left it a couple of days, and when she came home I had cooked for the kids
and was in the lounge reading the paper, to her retort, I thought you would
be on your PC (which I was too much), I replied that I had realised I had
become selfish and was stuck in a rut and I am not doing that anymore, I
have a life and will carry this on with or without W, which she was taken
back by. The rest of the evening I acted OK (Professional), which brought
the comment, why are you being so amicable!

Then asked her again not to leave and lets try at this, which I now think
drove her further away and she said no to C, so I said that she needs to
move out ASAP, which her reply was she knew that and was trying, but a
rental might not be available for another 5 weeks!! Or a couple of weeks if
she can get the money. She has not thought about moving, furniture, getting
things there, furnished or unfurnished etc.

We have told the kids what is going on as we feel they are old enough to
understand (when I say we, I did ALL of the talking) and the kids want to
stay one week and W and one week at mine, which is what we also want so we
are sharing the responsibilities and finical aspects 50/50 and both getting
to see them regularly.

I said that I thought she had changed her fb status, removed rings and
wanted to rent quickly to get out of the situation as fast as possible so
she cannot turn back easily.

Friday night I went out with friends and stayed at mates house. Wife was up
late drinking wine and posting on fb, which I think was due to me being out
with single mates. She was posting on her mobile as the internet was down at
hone and had been texting me all night to help her (She hasn't got a clue
about tech or money for that matter as I do everything) So I thought I would
carry it on so she would realise just what little things such as this would
be like,

I stayed at friends again on Sat, and again she was up drinking as I believe
she thought I was out again (which I wasn't). She text me at 9pm to tell me
D was having a sleep over, which I didn't respond to, and left it
completely.  (She doesn't usually drink much at all, usually a few on a fri
or sat night at home with me)







What I have done.

I have purchased the M3 (Michael Griswold) module and have ordered both db
dv books (and Spanish for dummies as I want to do new things) and combined
that with the help I have read on here.

I believe that there are still feelings there on both sides, which is why I
am going to try my best to save us. She is not eating or sleeping properly
either!

I sent her a message yesterday agreeing to her that we should break up and
that the R we had was broken which neither of us want/wanted. I also said
that things will be difficult at times but we were making the right
decision. ( I did this for acceptance, I don't want her to leave, but I do
know I do not want the R we finished up with, I want a new better one) I did
not want or look for a response as I cannot control this. She sent a text
back saying thanks for being understanding and she wants it to be amicable
for both us and the kids!

The M3 module has given me some insight into looking at myself first, which
I believe I am trying to do. I now realise that the R we had was cr*p, but I
love her, but its got to be right for both of us, not for the kids or
possessions etc, us. I have also realised that I don't need her in my life,
but I want her in my life, which has been an eye opener today (which has
been difficult day, as I have been thinking about her a lot) I want to try
my best for our M before I chuck it in so I can say to myself I tried
everything and more.

I have stopped looking at her fb page etc, as I realise that I shouldn't
make conclusions to things I don't know the whole story of etc and am trying
to detach myself from aspects which I do not know the outcome of.  She knows
I hate fb and that my view is that my business is mine, and if I wanted to
share it with people I would tell them, not post on fb and she is on there
far too much. But I am trying to use fb as the M3 system says, as PR. I have
changed my profile pic to a happier one of me (looking thinner as I have now
lost 16lb in 2 weeks due to not eating, but hey, I needed to lose a little
anyhow) and posted some funny comments on people walls etc, and put some new
pics up etc (This is what I used to be like) I have also used my android
phone to check in at places, to make it look like I am out getting on with
my life (but this Acting is killing me) I have confided in my best mate what
I am doing, and he has been brilliant. I have just seen W post on news feed
(didn't go on her wall) saying she had a fab weekend and doesn't want it to
end, I am trying not to look into it but you know! I think she has posted it
for my benefit!

I have changed my outgoing voicemail message to a happier one. This and the
PR fb stuff is to try and rekindle the desire which we originally had and
why she fell in love with me in the first place, not to try and make her
jealous.

I am not looking at the past in that if I had only done x,y,z then things
could have been different etc, as I believe this is only negative and my
saying to this is, if my auntie had balls then she would be my uncle. Its in
the past, don't dwell on it, but use it in the future.



I have realised that I don't know what she is thinking when I thought I did,
or to draw conclusions from things. MIL and FIL have stayed out of it and
whilst they have enough space for her they will not put her up, maybe this
is not to take sides or even that they do not agree with what she is doing!

I have now started the NC/LC route, but do I ignore everything or respond to
questions of the kids etc? (I have just responded to her last text, kids are
fine). I think she sent me a text at 9pm on Sat night as she thought I was
out on the town and was thinking about me. When she spoke to S today she
asked what I had been up to and if I was OK!

The big question now for the NC/LC theory is, do I move out (as my best mate
has given me a key to his place) from Thursday when she is back to go down
the NC route, or stay at home being "professional" only following the LC
route, with us both seeing each other and staying at friends a few days each
etc until she can rent somewhere? I think I need to do the NC route and give
it 3 weeks? This way she will also be at home with the kids and will only
have her thoughts etc without me around.

W is still doing the laundry for me atm, but I think if I move out for a
while I will tell her I will do it.

Part of me says she has chosen this path, she must do it alone, part thinks
to get her out ASAP and help her so she can miss me (but she will be tied to
6 month rental contract then), but other parts say, she has chosen to do
this, it your house (family home) why should I leave and if I do does that
give her more control over the house etc (I pay all of the house bills etc
and always have) worst case scenario.

We were like best friends and talked a lot, but obviously not on the right
things. I do not want to be her friend if we are not together in a R. I know
she will want me to set up the TV, internet etc etc when she gets her place
but will not be taken down that road.



Yes, the R was pretty crappy in the last few months especially, which I am
honest about, but I love her and do not want to just chuck 16 years away.



I am so confused what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GAL Man]

W has told me that she has found a rental place and can move out next Friday!!!

Should I still move to my mates for a week?


She is away on business atm, but text me yesterday and I didn't respond, then she emailed me, I responded a couple of hours later with a text saying, "hi, got your messages, been really busy, hope your well". She text straight back saying she was well and woipd see me tomoz.

She text me again when her plane touched down, to say she hand got there safely!!!!!

[InAPickle]

^ Bump

[GAL Man]

These are the updates from the WAS thread, thought I would put it all here.

Zero 12, thanks for reading my sit and giving advise

I,m not a patronising person, sarcastic at times, well maybe at little now thinking about it.

I believe she may have found a rental from next Friday! but would need my help, i.e money! Should I move out to friends until then or stay here?

Strange, she was away last night on business, but text me twice during the day, which I responded to after about 4hrs saying "hi, got your messages, really busy, hope your well". I think I did the right thing (I haven't got the db book yet)
She replied with "I," fine, be home tomoz" which I again ignored, but then at 10pm I got a message to say she had landed at destination safely!!!!!!!!!

Why would she do that if we have S?

Its only been a couple of weeks, and I deserve a medal already for my acting, D told W I was really happy atm, but I'm not, and this detatchment is hard to say the least.






W just got home

Rental is on a monthly basis which is better I suppose, but she is moving out next Friday.

I told her I didn't want her to move out I wanted to work at things, but it is her descsion to do so, she has to do what is right for her and I wouldn't appose it.

W said she is tired and going to bed

W is already going off on one to D!!

Do I want this?!?!?!?!





Very strange convo, I could see she was itching to find out what I had been up to, and kept asking, so I said doing new things, been out and about and ordered a few books to read LOL.

I didn't ask her anything what she had been doing at all, then W says who were you out with Sat night as her friend had seen my mates and I wasn't with them, I said that doesn't matter, to W's reply, were u out with x, as she likes all of your fb status's. This is a woman who really wanted me quite a few years back when W and I first got together, I worked with her, that was it, W knows this as well!

She is staying over again for work on FRi night and said is going to have a few drinks with workmates at Hotel as she said I go out every week, I said I feel she is forcing me to go out...

Still dont know if I should move out next week or not... Moving out means NC, staying home with W here means LC (professional). Have not got db yet but I think that is correct




W wants me to give her £2k by next Wednesdaay for the deposit and rent, do I give it to her?

Also, should I tell her once more before she has to comit to the rental that I don't want her to go or just leave it?




Thanks again Zero

Things took a bad turn over the weekend when I found out that she has just started to see OM for a couple of dates. She has insisted that that is only it (just going out for drinks and spending a day with him) and started 2 weeks after we separated, I was gutted to say the least, and when she got back from staying over for work again we had a big row. W insisted that she has done nothing wrong as its only dates and we are separated anyhow.

After leaving to calm down we had a very amicable conversation, and she apologised for letting me find out in the way I did, and said she would have done the same if in the same position and should have considered my feelings.

I still feel that she is moving this very fast to just run away, she wants no furniture (except some old units in the garage), although the place she will be renting has no furniture. She said to me she hasn't thought about taking Friday off to move in or even about essentials like plates, cups etc or even a sofa or bed!

I will be giving her some money for the deposit, as I think this is amicable, plus I need her to move out ASAP for me, so I can GAL and think out me.

I said to W that in 14 years all I have ever done is put my wife and the kids first, and have forgotten about me.

MIL called yesterday morning and we had a long chat, MIL was gutted over the situation and thinks W is having a MLC. MIL kept saying how sorry she was and I am welcome over anytime.

I have always had a good sense of humour, with a bit of sarcasm in, this is one of the areas which W liked in me at the beginning, but as I have been so low with the S and the way the W had been treating me this had seemed to disappear somewhat, I need to get this back and have started good inroads.

I haven’t talked about the R, all I said a few days ago was to let her know my position, in that I didn’t want her to leave, she needs to do what is right for her, and I felt the issues we had were not insurmountable, that is all I said and left it there. We talked about bills etc, and I said to her that although she has never done that as I assumed that role she is a very cleaver lady who would have no problem figuring things out, we also talked about washing and ironing as I did some the other day, basically saying that we can both do all things, but in our M we had assumed these roles.




It really hit me hard today that W has started to see OM. I was dealing with the S and R quite well and starting to GAL, but I can not deal with this. How can she be so insensative.

I really dont know what is going on in her head ATM

I just dont know what to do or say anymore!





Thanks to Zero12 for replying so far

[GAL Man]

W is moving out on Friday, but wants me to have kids for the first week as she has no furniture. She hasn't even got a bed for herself........ and she has not taken the day off. She wants to move stuff on sat now.

I have decided to stay at a friends for a few days, and have said to w that she can stay at home until sat pm until she can move stuff, and that I will return after she had gone, so to help her. I gave her the deposit for the rental and told her that I was doing this for her so we can both have time to think.

Very strange, she will be in the rental with nothing, she doesn't even want to take photos, even of the kids....

[zero12]

Hi, GAL Man. I just saw your post over in the WAS board about your W running away and not thinking about what she was doing. I suddenly had this strange image of a person running from a burning building, probably because that's how I feel. Who thinks about anything we normally consider practical or rational when immediate self-preservation is at issue?

I hope you get some more feedback here on the Newcomers board.
--z

[greenblue90]

GAL Man
So much to say....and I tend to mumble for paragraphs so I will bulletize for your reading pleasure!

1. The harder WAW's run, the more they are unsure of what they are doing. From my personal experience, and reading some of the forums, I have learned that in many sitch they are very unsure of what they are doing, and believe that "just getting it over with" will help them successfully run away from you, your family, and their own emotions.

2. I know this will be hard to hear, but OM was probably in the picture before the separation. Your sitch may be different, but from what I have seen she most likely heavily leaned on him for her emotional support. Regardless she is officially in the fog now. Nothing you can do except work on yourself, and give OM time to show his own negative qualities. This also means no snooping....

3. She wants to haphazardly run away? Fine, but she needs to learn the consequences of her actions. Whether it's the fog, or MLC she probably believes that life will BE SO GREAT without you. Unfortunately she will have to learn this for herself, you can't help her move forward, but you sure can hinder her progress. I know many will disagree, but go ahead and offer your help to her for basic life necessities, food, shelter, water. Don't kick her to the curb, this just gives her another excuse to make you the bad guy. Don't sweat small expenses, but if she asks for a large sum. Say you are willing to help, because you love her, but have some sort of written evidence you gave her money so you can subtract it from the final settlement. If she gets upset about this remind her you love her, and want to help her, but she is forcing this undesirable situation on the both of you. Remind her D is not pretty, and things like this are part of the process. Other then that let her worry about how she will pay for cable TV, drinks with the girls, and all those fun things she plans to do without you. Trust me she has a list, most WAW's do.

4. 180's GAL and DB are paramount! Embrace change, for her and mostly for you. You need to be attractive to her again, this is way to do it.

5. On OM. As said before, some may disagree, but YES you are competing with OM, just not in the way you think of. She is most likely constantly trying to convince herself how much better he is than you. She is most likely ignoring all his flaws, while highlighting yours. It's time to work on your flaws! Take away all her excuses. GALing will help you highlight your good qualities. That being said telling her why she should stay, and all your good qualities will just make you look needy, and desperate. Not good. You need to SHOW her through GAL, and 180's and DB. The show her part will take a very LONG time. Especially since she has most likely spent a very long time trying to convince herself on how unattractive you are.

6. Do not pursue, no R talk, no jealousy, or snooping. No pursuing behaviors.

7. Absolute positivity is a must! She sees you as this lame, boring, angry insert negative adjective here, guy. Being sad, depressed, angry, resentful will just prove this to her. Be the type of positive guy you would want to hang out with.

8. Finally has she told you why she is leaving you? Her concerns and complaints are a good jumping point for positive change in yourself. My W told me I was too loud.... She's not the only to have said that, so I have made a very conscious effort to work on it. Look at it this way, even if she does leave chances are that negative traits she doesn't like about you might sink your next relationship. Might as well start working on them now....

I'll leave it at that for now... let me know what you think. Take this as a chance to grow.

[GAL Man]

Thanks greenblue for your post. The OM came on the scene after we split, and she says it was just going out for drinks! I am quite sure this only came about after we S, as the text and calls only started on 27/04, however that is not the point.

W hasn't really said much about y she is leaving, just that we don't make each other happy anymore, and that she feels I talk down to het at times. We have both got to take responsibility for the failure of our R.

I am staying home till Fri, then coming back when she has moved out. She can clearly see I am gal, as I have lost a stone and a half, got some new clothes, are looking good and doing new things. W commented this am if I had a new suit, but its just one I haven't worn for ages. I am also posting funny stuff on fb and have changed my profile pic and other stuff. When around her I have only been professional, not talked about r, m or d. I haven't asked any questions or started any conversations etc, and I know w is finding this strange. She is still not sleeping etc as there is a lot on her mind, she says. She also asked last night y I seemed happy.....

I am still waiting for db and dr to arrive, but will be going dark from Friday.

[GAL Man]

Well, W has just told me the OM wants nothing to do with her, or for her to even contact him, says its not right!!

W says she just went for a drink with him, nothing else, and she was only talking to him from 27 April, and did I have anything to do with this!

[GAL Man]

moved into her flat on sat...

I haven't seen her now since wed last week, but this was my choice. I text her thur morning saying o was going to stay away until she has gone so she could have our bed back to try and get some sleep for the move, as she was not sleeping well. She text back saying thanks and then went on about work! She text me very early on sat morning asking what time I would be back as she still had loads to do, and then again a few hours later, which I didn't reply too. But when I got home she had taken nothing, so I don't know what she wad doing all day.

The kids told me she had a bed, sofa, tv unit and basic coffee table delivered to her flat on sat, bit that's about all she has.

So I have basically dropped the rope and gone completly dark so.ce thur morning, just have to see what happens now. She is portraying to her friends things are ok, but seeing the way she was last week (stress, no sleep, lots in her head, no organisation) I don't think that's the case, but it maybe........

Thoughts much appreciated, ad I don't think there is anything else I could possibly do now or differently.