I'm lost, need help. WAW

[GAL Man]

I stumbled across this website a couple of days ago, and have been reading
the islander thread from the start and have seen how helpful everyone is on
here, so cut short a BBQ to come and tell my story and hopefully get some
help and advice. Sorry for the first long post but I have tried to condense
it.

BITS

H - 37
W - 38
Together - 16y
Married - 12y
Daughter - 14
Son - 12
Date of WAW - 14/04/11

My Story (WAW)

Things have been getting worse of the last couple of years tbh, and whilst
we did try at things IMHO we only touched on the surface. In the last couple
of months things had got bad for me and I had become very down with the way
W had been treating me, no affection (but were still having S), snappy,
moody and even starting to shout at me in front of friends. I didn't read
the signs.... At a friends BBQ on 10/04/11 she did it again, resulting in
the next few days me being down and moody with W, and this created a circle
where she would be worse.

14/04/11 she said that she wasn't happy with R, so thought we should
separate! If left within the hour to stay in a hotel in another city as I
had to be there early for work anyhow and thought it would be good to give
her some space and returned the following evening. We had a conversation
where she said we have been here before, nothing had worked and that she
hadn't been happy for a few years now. She slept in D's double bed the next
couple of nights. I knew things were not good, but not this. I am 99% sure
there is no OP as she doesn't have much time for job, me, home and kids let
alone anyone else, but hey, I didn't know this was going to happen either!

I then stayed at my friends for the next couple of nights (my 2 best mates
are single) and she then stayed at her friends in another town for a couple
of nights as her friends in our town are married with young kids so do not
have room for her, or even want her around much as they have their own
lives. She then stayed in a hotel for 3 nights as I said I had to be at home
with kids as it was holidays so she needed to spend some time away. I also
did this as it was usually me who stays away, and I wanted her to feel being
in a lonely room without usual home comforts and only your thoughts.

I sent her an honest letter on 18/04/11 being completely honest in saying
where I felt things had gone wrong, (her being moody, jealous of 2 of her
friends becoming close and excluding her, clashing with D, all of which I
felt she then took out on me, made me in a bad mood to her creating a
vicious circle) I also pointed out where I felt I had gone wrong. We had
some email tennis then and when I asked where she was staying the response
was that I wanted her out of the house so she didn't see as it mattered,
which I felt she turned it around to me!

She returned home on 21/04/11 and slept in D double bed with her again. On
Sat 25 we had a conversation and she admitted that she had been horrible to
me (a bit*h in her actual words) and said she was so sorry for making me
feel so sad and that she just wanted me to be happy and that she was not the
person to do this. I said to her that all I wanted was to be happy with her,
for us to be happy, and that I felt that I should be the one leaving, not
the one saying lets work at things and that I love her, to her reply of she
didn't want to work at things any more, I'm a nice guy and now realises how
much I love her and how badly she had treated me. (Should have realised I
should have told her I love her more, but didn't). She said that she didn't
know why she had been treating me so badly, only that she felt I talked down
to her.



A couple of days later we had another open honest conversation, and I said
we obviously have feelings for each other otherwise we wouldn't have these
conversations, but we cannot make each other happy, and its been getting
worse for some time now, to which she agreed with. I said that when we had
issues in the past but we never ever talked about them as in-depth as we are
now, and if we had done this a couple of years ago and were still in this
position now I would say lets part, but we hadn't and we can make it work. W
said no, we had tried and it was no good. I said you sent me a text only 3
weeks ago telling me how much you loved me, to the reply of "I was putting
issues to the back of my mind..."

Next day W changes her fb status to single and removes all rings!! Later
that evening when I found out and she realised how hurt I was she removed
the single status from fb and the post on her wall.

Wife wants to move out and rent for 6 months and see. We have agreed to the
current finances (She has car, I have cash as I have a CC), but she has
asked me to lend her the money so she can put down 6 months rent in advance
and to take it off any final settlement (i.e equity in property) which I am
not sure about. She is viewing two rentals on 03/05/11, and saw one on
30/04/11

Asked her if we were doing the right thing, to which I got the reply "I
think so"... I then asked if she would consider C, to which she said don't
know, I might go to 1... I told her I loved her and that I didn't want to
just throw 16y away without trying and exhausting everything first, to which
she again replied that she thought we had and that was it. She knows I love
her deeply and that I want to work at it.

Left it a couple of days, and when she came home I had cooked for the kids
and was in the lounge reading the paper, to her retort, I thought you would
be on your PC (which I was too much), I replied that I had realised I had
become selfish and was stuck in a rut and I am not doing that anymore, I
have a life and will carry this on with or without W, which she was taken
back by. The rest of the evening I acted OK (Professional), which brought
the comment, why are you being so amicable!

Then asked her again not to leave and lets try at this, which I now think
drove her further away and she said no to C, so I said that she needs to
move out ASAP, which her reply was she knew that and was trying, but a
rental might not be available for another 5 weeks!! Or a couple of weeks if
she can get the money. She has not thought about moving, furniture, getting
things there, furnished or unfurnished etc.

We have told the kids what is going on as we feel they are old enough to
understand (when I say we, I did ALL of the talking) and the kids want to
stay one week and W and one week at mine, which is what we also want so we
are sharing the responsibilities and finical aspects 50/50 and both getting
to see them regularly.

I said that I thought she had changed her fb status, removed rings and
wanted to rent quickly to get out of the situation as fast as possible so
she cannot turn back easily.

Friday night I went out with friends and stayed at mates house. Wife was up
late drinking wine and posting on fb, which I think was due to me being out
with single mates. She was posting on her mobile as the internet was down at
hone and had been texting me all night to help her (She hasn't got a clue
about tech or money for that matter as I do everything) So I thought I would
carry it on so she would realise just what little things such as this would
be like,

I stayed at friends again on Sat, and again she was up drinking as I believe
she thought I was out again (which I wasn't). She text me at 9pm to tell me
D was having a sleep over, which I didn't respond to, and left it
completely.  (She doesn't usually drink much at all, usually a few on a fri
or sat night at home with me)







What I have done.

I have purchased the M3 (Michael Griswold) module and have ordered both db
dv books (and Spanish for dummies as I want to do new things) and combined
that with the help I have read on here.

I believe that there are still feelings there on both sides, which is why I
am going to try my best to save us. She is not eating or sleeping properly
either!

I sent her a message yesterday agreeing to her that we should break up and
that the R we had was broken which neither of us want/wanted. I also said
that things will be difficult at times but we were making the right
decision. ( I did this for acceptance, I don't want her to leave, but I do
know I do not want the R we finished up with, I want a new better one) I did
not want or look for a response as I cannot control this. She sent a text
back saying thanks for being understanding and she wants it to be amicable
for both us and the kids!

The M3 module has given me some insight into looking at myself first, which
I believe I am trying to do. I now realise that the R we had was cr*p, but I
love her, but its got to be right for both of us, not for the kids or
possessions etc, us. I have also realised that I don't need her in my life,
but I want her in my life, which has been an eye opener today (which has
been difficult day, as I have been thinking about her a lot) I want to try
my best for our M before I chuck it in so I can say to myself I tried
everything and more.

I have stopped looking at her fb page etc, as I realise that I shouldn't
make conclusions to things I don't know the whole story of etc and am trying
to detach myself from aspects which I do not know the outcome of.  She knows
I hate fb and that my view is that my business is mine, and if I wanted to
share it with people I would tell them, not post on fb and she is on there
far too much. But I am trying to use fb as the M3 system says, as PR. I have
changed my profile pic to a happier one of me (looking thinner as I have now
lost 16lb in 2 weeks due to not eating, but hey, I needed to lose a little
anyhow) and posted some funny comments on people walls etc, and put some new
pics up etc (This is what I used to be like) I have also used my android
phone to check in at places, to make it look like I am out getting on with
my life (but this Acting is killing me) I have confided in my best mate what
I am doing, and he has been brilliant. I have just seen W post on news feed
(didn't go on her wall) saying she had a fab weekend and doesn't want it to
end, I am trying not to look into it but you know! I think she has posted it
for my benefit!

[zero12]

GAL Man,
Welcome to the boards! You might get more responses if you repost this in Newcomers, which perhaps you already have.
Just so you know where I’m coming from I had a WAH in 2002, and we reconciled. Last week, I dropped the D bomb on him and I’ve probably been in WAW mode for the past year or so. Suffice it to say, I’ve seen this from both sides. I’m back on the boards, because I want to get a D with my head screwed on straight. That said, I have a tendency to think less about DBing skills than self-preservation. Nonetheless, I do understand the desire to keep your M and fix your R, so here goes.

The first thing I have to say is with regard to your actions.

You said:
“The M3 module has given me some insight into looking at myself first…I love her, but it’s got to be right for both of us…” That whole paragraph was rockin’! When I first DB’d all those years ago, it was hard to get to the place where I could let go of the R and put my H’s need to be away from me above my own need to be with him. I realized that whether I agreed with H or not, he was hurting and he thought the only way to stop the hurt was to cut me out of his life. I certainly thought he was wrong, but I decided to let him be the judge of what was best for himself. If he truly needed to be away from me for his own well being, what kind of loving person would I be if I insisted on keeping him. That’s when I was able to let him go, and achieve acceptance and the peace of mind that comes with it. Keep moving toward that and you’ll be in the best possible position to handle whatever your W decides to do.

Absolutely work on yourself and do that very hard job of letting your W stew in her own problems. I know you’re worried about her eating and drinking and sleeping and living arrangements, but she needs to sort that out for herself.

You mentioned that she’s can’t leave for five weeks and she’s not really taking the appropriate steps to leave. It may be maddening for her to say one thing and then do nothing, but it’s a good sign that she’s ambivalent. Let it go. Don’t push her one way or the other. Count every day that she doesn’t manage to leave or make plans to leave as another day that she’s still thinking about what to do and another opportunity to DB while she’s in the home. Believe me, once they’re gone it’s not as easy to get them home again.

The second thing I noticed was in your actions you said that you “sent her a message yesterday agreeing to her that we should break up and that the R we had was broken… we were making the right decision” and then you went on to say that this was for acceptance and doesn’t represent how you truly feel. It seemed like you were a little hurt that she was pleased that you’d said this.

First, it’s okay that she’s pleased. Hopefully she realizes you’re being big about this.

Second, you may not want to misrepresent your position, as she may find it harder to approach you if she changes her mind and thinks you really want this. She may also distrust you later, if she finds out that you’re just saying things to appease her. What I used to tell my H was that, I didn’t agree that the D was a good idea, but if that was what he wanted I would not create any obstacles or make it more difficult than it already was. H did not always appreciate this position, and sometimes he suspected my motives, but the actions that followed it up were that I signed all the papers, cooperated in splitting assets, exceeded all of the court deadlines, and even waived my right to a waiting period.

You say that your wife feels like you talk down to her. I have some insight into this, because my H has a championship belt in patronizing, and he doesn’t even acknowledge that he does it. After years of listening to insulting lectures about things I know very well without being told, I’m at the point where even minor “just making sure you know” statements send me up the wall. Put downs and patronizing talk no matter how unintentional have a build up effect. Your wife may be lashing out over seemingly little things because what she’s really hearing is that one little nit plus thousands of other little nits that you’ve said and long forgotten about. If my H says, “Don’t forget to put the keys in the basket where I can find them,” I hear the message “You are still too stupid to be trusted with even the keys.”

I have no idea if being patronizing is really a big problem for you or if you were just venting on your thread. (Sometimes it helps to denote venting as such, so there’s no confusion) Nonetheless, you did say “She doesn’t have a clue about tech or money for that matter as I do everything.” It may not have come across well, because you’re upset at her. It may even be true, but it sounded like you were insulting her. Obviously you didn’t insult her to her face, because she’s not reading your thread, but do you say things like that to her?

The other thing that struck me about your comment on her lack of tech and money skills is that it is good that you are letting her sort this stuff out on her own as much as she can. I believe you when you say that these aren’t her strong suits, and you have a point that she needs to learn what it’s like to manage these things on her own. Consider also that in letting her figure it out you’re showing confidence in her, and if she does figure it out she’ll have more confidence in herself. The idea of not being needed usually strikes terror in the hearts of LB spouses, but it may be that your wife needs a sense of accomplishment to give her the confidence to tackle something really hard… like your R.

Anyway, those are my first blush thoughts. You are doing some good things for your R. Keep at it and take care of yourself. --z

[GAL Man]

Zero 12, thanks for reading my sit and giving advise

I,m not a patronising person, sarcastic at times, well maybe at little now thinking about it.

I believe she may have found a rental from next Friday! but would need my help, i.e money! Should I move out to friends until then or stay here?

Strange, she was away last night on business, but text me twice during the day, which I responded to after about 4hrs saying "hi, got your messages, really busy, hope your well". I think I did the right thing (I haven't got the db book yet)
She replied with "I," fine, be home tomoz" which I again ignored, but then at 10pm I got a message to say she had landed at destination safely!!!!!!!!!

Why would she do that if we have S?

Its only been a couple of weeks, and I deserve a medal already for my acting, D told W I was really happy atm, but I'm not, and this detatchment is hard to say the least.

[GAL Man]

Mods, sorry, please can you merge all my original posts into one

[GAL Man]

W just got home

Rental is on a monthly basis which is better I suppose, but she is moving out next Friday.

I told her I didn't want her to move out I wanted to work at things, but it is her descsion to do so, she has to do what is right for her and I wouldn't appose it.

W said she is tired and going to bed

W is already going off on one to D!!

Do I want this?!?!?!?!

[GAL Man]

Very strange convo, I could see she was itching to find out what I had been up to, and kept asking, so I said doing new things, been out and about and ordered a few books to read LOL.

I didn't ask her anything what she had been doing at all, then W says who were you out with Sat night as her friend had seen my mates and I wasn't with them, I said that doesn't matter, to W's reply, were u out with x, as she likes all of your fb status's. This is a woman who really wanted me quite a few years back when W and I first got together, I worked with her, that was it, W knows this as well!

She is staying over again for work on FRi night and said is going to have a few drinks with workmates at Hotel as she said I go out every week, I said I feel she is forcing me to go out...

Still dont know if I should move out next week or not... Moving out means NC, staying home with W here means LC (professional). Have not got db yet but I think that is correct

[GAL Man]

The rest of my original post (sorry again mods)

Carrying on - What I have done

I have changed my outgoing voicemail message to a happier one. This and the PR fb stuff is to try and rekindle the desire which we originally had and why she fell in love with me in the first place, not to try and make her jealous.

I am not looking at the past in that if I had only done x,y,z then things could have been different etc, as I believe this is only negative and my saying to this is, if my auntie had balls then she would be my uncle. Its in the past, don't dwell on it, but use it in the future.



I have realised that I don't know what she is thinking when I thought I did, or to draw conclusions from things. MIL and FIL have stayed out of it and whilst they have enough space for her they will not put her up, maybe this is not to take sides or even that they do not agree with what she is doing!

I have now started the NC/LC route, but do I ignore everything or respond to questions of the kids etc? (I have just responded to her last text, kids are fine). I think she sent me a text at 9pm on Sat night as she thought I was out on the town and was thinking about me. When she spoke to S today she asked what I had been up to and if I was OK!

The big question now for the NC/LC theory is, do I move out (as my best mate has given me a key to his place) from Thursday when she is back to go down the NC route, or stay at home being "professional" only following the LC route, with us both seeing each other and staying at friends a few days each etc until she can rent somewhere? I think I need to do the NC route and give it 3 weeks? This way she will also be at home with the kids and will only have her thoughts etc without me around.

W is still doing the laundry for me atm, but I think if I move out for a while I will tell her I will do it.

Part of me says she has chosen this path, she must do it alone, part thinks to get her out ASAP and help her so she can miss me (but she will be tied to 6 month rental contract then), but other parts say, she has chosen to do this, it your house (family home) why should I leave and if I do does that
give her more control over the house etc (I pay all of the house bills etc and always have) worst case scenario.

We were like best friends and talked a lot, but obviously not on the right things. I do not want to be her friend if we are not together in a R. I know she will want me to set up the TV, internet etc etc when she gets her place but will not be taken down that road.

Yes, the R was pretty crappy in the last few months especially, which I am honest about, but I love her and do not want to just chuck 16 years away.

I am so confused what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GAL Man]

Quick Q

I have ordered both db and dr, which one do I start with?

[GAL Man]

W wants me to give her £2k by next Wednesdaay for the deposit and rent, do I give it to her?

Also, should I tell her once more before she has to comit to the rental that I don't want her to go or just leave it?

[zero12]

Lots of questions… I’ll tackle a few.

First, read DR first, because it’s targeted more for the LB spouse.
Second, absolutely talk with her about kid issues when it is necessary, but stick to the kids and not the R.
Third, you’re doing good to give her space. I think going dark is good for when things get really bad or when you need a break from the situation. Sometimes everything I said, no matter how innocuous ticked off my H; other times I didn’t trust myself not to say something. Those were the best times to go dark.
There are some good signs that she’s still rethinking the situation and giving her space to think it through is a good idea. Maybe going with low contact is good. All you have to do is avoid R talk. I can’t tell you whether or not to move in with a friend. She may think you don’t want to be around her. She may think it considerate that you would accommodate her comfort by letting her have the bedroom back. She might decide you should stay with your friends permanently so that she doesn’t need an apartment. If you stay, she might just be forced to watch you GAL and making positive changes. It might also be torture for you to watch her leave. How do you think the kids would react to you being gone, while their mother is moving? You know her and your sitch better than me, so you’ll have to make the call.
Sarcasm is interesting. I work with a person who has a sarcastic wit that I love. I work with another person who hates it and wants to strangle him. Some people take sarcasm the wrong way. Some people appreciate a little sarcasm, but find it wearisome after a while. You might try dialing it back and seeing if that changes how your W interacts with you. Regardless of whether that’s part of the problem or not, you do want to help your wife feel safe talking to you.
As for whether you should give her the money… that’s up to you. If you can afford it easily then it won’t hurt to be magnanimous. It might help your marriage. It might hit you and your W down the road if you end up getting a D.
Good luck! --z