New - HELP! Tried the 180/Last Resort & Failed

[AloneAt35]

Thank you dbmod and thank you 25yearsMLC!

dbmod, I remember you telling me that I might not see results for 8-12 weeks or a bit longer, that certainly seems to be the case - he's moving full speed ahead with OW and I'm wiping the dust out of my eyes. dbmod, where do you get this incredible confidence that things with the OW will blow up? I wish I could say that I shared your confidence in karmic equilibrium!

25yearsMLC, I truly admire how you handled your sitch and the advice you give. Just so you know, I have seen a lawyer. She was very helpful but unfortunately we moved to a state that does not recognize common law partnerships a few years ago for his work. (Its funny, when we moved here, I mentioned that I felt insecure about it and he once again - as he always did - told me that financially, I never had anything to worry about because he would never leave and I was the sole beneficiary of all of his assets and insurance policies.) Nonetheless, I asked the lawyer if there was anything, anything at all that I was entitled to beyond just a division of our joint property and she said "no". To answer your other questions, the domestic partnership medical benefits are just a product of his employer's largesse to attract good candidates...he can't wait to get me off of them, possibly so he can get married.

I spent the day submitting more and more resumes - its a disheartening economy that I've literally been "dumped" into. I have a college degree but its not helping me much. I hope to relocate to a nearby city, so that is where I am applying. There is nothing where I am right now.

Ex-partner called today, he was talking about resolving the same logistical issues as always, and came to same conclusions he always does, though set no firm dates. Although its been almost two weeks since we've spoken, we had the exact same conversation we always do. We've now had this conversation VERBATIM three times:

Him: "OW doesn't want me having contact with you. OW says she'll leave me if she finds out I had contact with you. OW says, 'if you so much as speak to her, its over.' I asked my friends if this was normal, and they said 'yes, its normal.' So I guess I have to respect OW's wishes and not contact you."

Me: "Okay, then why did you call?" (In my head I think, 'Boy, she certainly sounds like a charming and secure woman.')

Him: "I wanted to see if you needed help?...if you're doing okay?...if we could go to the bank together and close out XXXXX account?...if you thought the bedroom looked weird without any of my clothes in it?..."

My answers are always the same: "I'm fine, I'm making do, friends/family are helping, yes we can go to the bank whenever you want but please give me a day's notice, the bedroom looks 'nicer' not 'weird' without your clothes in there, and no, I won't tell OW you called - I don't even know how I WOULD tell OW you called since I don't know where your new house is..."

Me: "So WHEN would you like to go to the bank, I am free every day this week."

Him: "I don't know, I'll get back to you."

Why are we having this circular conversation? Just to remind me that he is not the same logical, decisive, rational man I loved?? Poor guy, at least he seems to be functioning at work okay.

[AloneAt35]

Journaling:

Today is a bad day. I feel hopeless. I hate this day.

[shannon2011]

Alone at 35,

I am newer to this board but I am so sorry that you are going through this. Realize that what he is going through HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. And I agree with everyone else-he will crash soon but he has to feel real pain to do so. Keep up the DB, PMA, etc FOR YOU to get through this.

I am so sorry about the financial situation you are going through. What was your college degree in? Could your family help you put together some money for a cheap used car to get around in? Could you apply to a temp agency just to get things rolling? I wish I had some solutions but I think under the circumstances, you are doing great.

Take care and know that we all support you. You cannot help him avoid the crash (life will do that soon enough) but you can reach out to friends and family to help you get through this. Trust me-there is no shame in that.

Shannon

[AloneAt35]

Today, ex-partner kicked me when I was down, then kicked me some more. How did I handle it? I don't know...I'm just stunned.

The phone rang twice this morning - it was him calling from work. I hadn't slept all night (spent the night crying, worrying, and praying for help/strength). I pulled myself together and called right back.

He said he wanted to talk to me about removing me from our (his) health insurance immediately. Originally, he had promised to keep me on until December, but he said that I need to be off for 12 months before he can get OW put on as his new domestic partner so he was having paperwork sent to me about COBRA options. He was incredibly cold, bold, and almost hostile about it, but he said he would help pay for a COBRA option. He then began grilling me about what I had been doing to find a job with benefits, I told him about all of the resumes I've been sending and and that I would take ANY job that came my way. He asked how my financial situation was and I answered honestly that it was not good. He accused me of spending my money irresponsibly by 'going out' and I became angry - irresponsible is the LAST thing I've been and I haven't even left the house. The conversation ended right there, I said goodbye and he sounded the most distant and hostile I've ever heard him be. I literally did not recognize his voice.

I had to defend myself, so I calmed myself and called him back. I told him how unfair it was to accuse me of such a thing and a whole new conversation began, with him admitting he was wrong but attacking on a different front. He told me that both his therapist and the OW say he has no responsibility to me. He said that he always resented that he was the "caretaker" in the relationship and that I felt comfortable "following my heart" in my profession while he had to be the "responsible one." I used my DB listening skills as he continued to attack. I told him that I understood why he felt that way but that I had honestly viewed our relationship as a partnership where we each contributed different but valuable things. He said he tried to tell me years ago that I should stop freelancing and adjunct teaching and get the type of job that would contribute financial stability to our relationship. I said that I had always worked hard (which he admitted) and put everything I earned into our mutual bills and had never asked for anything, which he also acknowledged. But he said that despite it, he felt I had essentially let him do the 'heavy lifting' (responsibility-wise) for years.

He said that his therapist said that I should be able to survive on my own and I agreed with him that this was correct and it was my only goal in life at this point. He said, "Why didn't you do it sooner?" I said, "I don't know but I wish I had." He reiterated that being a 'caretaker' had turned him into a "robot" in our relationship. I told him how sorry I was and that I felt terrible that I hadn't recognized this sooner. He said I should have heard what he was trying to tell me years ago and I agreed (though I was hesitant about agreeing because I honestly thought he was proud of the work I did - but I agreed nonetheless).

He then switched gears quickly to the lack of intimacy in our relationship (it had dwindled significantly in recent years with him withdrawing and me always instigating intimacy, only to often be turned down). He said that he had become a "robot" in this area as well, and not just because he had "been forced into becoming a caretaker" - though that was part of it. He said he always believed that the fact that he had sex with me at such a young age (he was 24 and I was 16 when we got together)'messed me up.' I said that nothing could be further from the truth, and that he needed to absolve himself of any guilt associated with the beginning of our relationship. (I was shocked by the ancient history surfacing here.) I stopped short of telling him that I loved having sex with him, but I almost wish I had. He said that because I was so young I fell into a pattern of being dependent and I said this was certainly true and I was very, very sorry for it for both of our sakes.

He then switched to OW. He said she would be furious if she knew we were speaking. I said I understood, and then I suggested that by moving her from out of state to be with him and asking her to give up her job and school he was possibly creating another scenario where a woman would become dependent on him and he would become resentful. He told me he had no idea how much money she earned, but she owned two cars, and had certainly proven that she could take care of herself and planned on getting a job once they moved in together. I said, "that is good, and it is true that she does sound successful and independent."

He then started to soften a lot - he was actually softening considerably throughout the conversation as I validated everything he said. He started sounding *sad* instead of mad. He said, OW has a hard time dealing with our relationship because she doesn't understand why it ended with no bad feelings between us. (I wanted to say, "YOU CERTAINLY SOUND LIKE YOU HAVE BAD FEELINGS TOWARD ME!!!") I said that I understood OW's insecurity but there was no reason for her to be jealous because I realized that partner didn't have feelings for me anymore and probably hadn't for quite some time. He sounded very sad at this point. He said, "all I want for you is to live a good life with someone who appreciates you." I said I hoped I would have that opportunity some day. He reiterated that he had a lot more time on his hands now that he was living closer to work and didn't feel as much like a robot, but rather than sounding happy about this he sounded so sad. I said it was good that he was feeling more himself. I know to end the conversation first, so even though he seemed like there was more on his mind and that he was feeling terrible, I moved to end the conversation.

I said, "I will let you go and thank you for talking to me. I called you for an apology and realized that I was the one who owed you an apology." I said "good bye." As I hung up I could hear that he was still talking, so I went back on the line. He said he was sorry for accusing me of being irresponsible. He sounded totally despondent by the end of the conversation.

I've been in shock for hours about this conversation. I had no idea that ex-partner felt such a heavy burden of responsibility or was displeased by the fact that I was just a freelancer/adjunct teacher. I wanted to beg him to give me a second chance, but at the same time I knew that begging would be futile and self-defeating and would be met with rejection...he is too far down the road with OW.

I feel more hopeless than ever about our relationship, but at least I have some clarity about his feelings. At the same time, this sounds like typical MLC stuff: feeling like a "robot" and resentful of all responsibility and anyone who reminds them of their obligations or might make them feel guilty for what (and whom) they are destroying.

I've been so depressed as it is about not finding a F/T job with benefits and this was just the most horrible blow to my already decimated self-esteem. He practically attacked everything about me, but there was enough truth in it that the sting is agonizing and is not subsiding though hours have passed. I kind of feel like giving up and dying.

What do I make of his transition from angry to almost despondent? I swear he practically sounded regretful that our relationship didn't work out by the end of the call - and like he wanted to keep me on the phone, but its probably just "wishful thinking" on my part - what I probably heard was guilt and not regret.

All day long I've wanted to write him and say, "I will always love you, I am sorry that I couldn't be who you wanted but I would do anything to be with you again - even as just a friend - because you are so important to me." Another side of me wants to tell him: "You kicked me when I was down and you are crushing me so much that I don't want to live."

I can't win against OW, but I honestly feel that if OW wasn't in the picture, we would be starting to honestly work on our relationship...or at least be salvaging a very valuable friendship.

Does anyone have any insight? Was what happened today good or bad? This is the first I've gotten any reason for his lack of feelings toward me, and something tells me that it wasn't just the MLC speaking.

[AloneAt35]

One more thought about my prior long post: I think ex-partner wishes that we could just hate each other to make it easier on him.

But I can't and won't hate him, and try as he might, every time he talks to me he is reminded that he can't hate me either (and actually probably still cares about me) and that makes what he is doing so much harder for him.

The merciful thing would be if God would allow us to hate each other. However, we had so many good years and so much love and joy with each other that I think its impossible - I just can't get there (to hating him)...and he seems to be trying to get there with the help of OW but failing. He had told me so many times that the way our relationship ended is "hard on OW," but I actually think its harder on him.

[shannon2011]

Hey girl!

You can always say, "I understand that this is how you feel and although I don't agree with it, I am here to listen". It does something to you doesn't it? And what he is saying to you is crap-I have ALWAYS supported my husband and I valued every contribution he made. I never resented it. I considered us partners so don't let him put that on you. What I hear instead is that because i took such care of things, he could have been something if he had chosen another path and he resents me for the choices he should have taken but didn't.

So no-you could have stepped out and challenged yourself more but isn't that what you are doing right now by listening to him and pushing yourself to get out of this situation. He cannot honestly expect that he can dump you off the medical insurance (which you need-don't even think of agreeing to this) just to put his new OW on it. No-stick to your guns and make him cover you until December. You are not being co-dependent to expect some time to make arrangements to secure housing, a job, and medical insurance on his timing.

You can be confident in these discussions (like you have) but he can't throw you into the pool and hope to God you can swim. I am really worried about you. I am not thrilled that my H has walked away but there is no way I would leave him without medical insurance or no way to secure a job. He has been told this from the beginning-if he needs a place to stay, he can have the couch. You need to have some time to make your own arrangements and there is nothing wrong for asking for time to do so. Pace yourself-we are here for you.

Veterans, any feedback? I may be too new to give really amazing advice....

Shannon

[25yearsmlc]

you did great. Nothing to feel bad about although....


he IS being a jerk and he owed you some discussion long before now if this is the first time you've heard these things



you can validate without agreeing IF they revise too much and they do...b/c they have to justify their choices...



how to validate without agreeing? You can say "I don't recall it that way but I'm sorry you were hurt" and if there

is truth to what he says, or some, then say "If I had it to do over, I'd do lots of things differently"...



He cannot argue with either statement and yet you are showing you are different...and therefore, the R could be....




The OW sounds flaky as hell. I would not be surprised if men had purchased her two cars (who owns two cars??)



does he even know what her job is?



Never mind, forget OW...he's in a crisis and felt burdened financially.



now we know. Get a job and GAL and know you will be fine.



See the thing is, the LBSer actually does do better than the WAS over time.



I mean, he will always wonder if he made the right choice (he already is)

and whether he was shitty about it, which he was and don't defend him or let him off the hook when he yanks the rug out from under you AND changes the terms...


and he will look over his shoulder wondering about you...every time OW does something nasty you would not do,
or doesn't get his jokes (common with east Europeans)


he will wonder about you


Whereas the LBSer has to make the best of it b/c they had NO choice...and they GAL and learn to live well, and they are "awake"....like never before...



You won't look over your shoulder



he always will



Remember to be upbeat if you can be. Not so much about letting him off the hook



but being "attractive/attracting" to him. I think you were b/c you were his friend and he's very weird right now. SO MLC...



I suspect he asked ONE weird guy, and in a weird biased way, if OW's behavior is "normal"


why ask that if you are so sure about OW....??


I agree with the moderator, OW will blow over in at most, a year. My guess is months...



please read the Laura munson article "Those Arent' Fighting Words" and see what you think.

take care of yourself and keep at it. Be the author of your life and make this next chapter a GOOD ONE!

[AloneAt35]

Hi Shannon and 25,

Thanks for the support. This was one of the roughest days - it helps to have some feedback. I see that I could have done better, but I did okay.

God it hurts to be battling my best friend this way - to truly recognize the man he has become. The abject loss of decency...three months ago this would have been unthinkable.

Shannon, regarding being dropped from his insurance, I don't have a leg to stand on - the decision was acted on before he even called me and I have no legal rights since we moved to a non-common-law state. He HAD promised to keep me on till the end of the year but he hasn't kept a single promise yet, still this one hurt because going to the therapist every two weeks is the only break I get. Shannon, please don't say you're scared for me, that scares me more! Today ex-partner laughed at me for saying that someday I would get a car - literally laughed at me.

I could have been more ambitious, but I never caused him any financial hardship - he earns six figures after taxes and we lived so humbly (by choice). The man had me baking bread - literally baking his bread...with extra flax - and I loved doing it because I love(d) him. He never so much as bought me a pair of shoes (because I never asked him to). It hurt to hear him paint me as some kind of freeloader.

25yearsmlc, thank you for teaching me how to validate without agreeing. I love this: "If I had it to do over, I'd do lots of things differently"... Its a great statement, and in my case, its true, but I have to realize that its unlikely I'll have the opportunity.

What matters is that this morning, he called to fight - so cocky, so cold, and so sure that he owed me nothing that his voice actually scared me - but by the end of the conversation, HE was the one sounding unsure of the righteousness of what he had done and apologizing, and tonight he sent an email with info about COBRA plans that ended with the words "Sorry again."

25yearsmlc, I wish I could believe what you say about the OW. At this point, having the man I knew occasionally in my life even as a friend...heck, just even having him revisit his body periodically...would be a DB "success" for me. But hope is too painful (ironically, having no hope is even more painful).

I read the Laura Munson article before I even discovered DBing...I tried her technique of saying "I don't believe you" - boy was the result a hailstorm of hate. I'm afraid that ex-partner almost had me committed at that point for being in "denial." So now I believe him...he doesn't love me right now and probably hasn't for a long time. I have to learn to live with that.

[shannon2011]

You are doing great. The Laura Munson article was wonderful. Thanks for the advice 25MLC!

Shannon

[25yearsmlc]

alone

no one makes the choices your man is, this fast, with an OW like this, only to '

say, "FINALLY I AM LIVING AN AUTHENTIC LIFE!!""


If money matters a lot to him, no way will SHE contribute more than she benefits. Why should she? She has a kid to protect.


BTW, how's your guy with kids? Kids he never met before?


Yeah, bet that'll be an UBER FUN time to adjust....



He may be done with your R, maybe,

but 3 years from now he won't be with her

or I'm completely seeing this wrong, like 100%....

of all the weird MLCs affairs,


his is the oddest and least likely to survive long term. He'd have to really want to be "right" to stick it out with the problems they'll face


I know that all I know is what you tell us, but you sound objective


and that's my take on it

but I don't want to have hope paralyze you


no matter what, you'll have to be in a very different place when he resurfaces
hence the 180s and GAL...better job, new place, new people in your life, etc


and if you do get back, please marry so you are never vulnerable like this again.


or don't marry but have enough on your own so you can't be this uprooted.


good luck, we're all here for you