He's not gone yet but says his feelings are gone

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

DH & I have been married for almost 15 yrs, together for 17. I'm 36, he's 38 and we have one son 3 1/2 yrs old.

I'll try to make this as succinct as possible: I have a history of depression, runs in the family, had abuse in my childhood. I thought I did a pretty good job of managing it until after my son was born. I had postpartum depression. When S was 6 mos. old H dropped the 1st bomb, ILYBNILWY. (3 yrs ago) I was already seeing a counselor for PPD and on anti-depressants, just starting to pull myself out of the pit. We to my C once together, he went to her separately once, he spent a few weeks thinking about it and decided to stay. Basically he felt that my depression was dragging us both down and he was unhappy, he'd tried everything to make me happy and nothing worked. At that time, I read this board and starting working on myself, being happy, not pushing, and eventually it worked. Once he made his decision to stay, he was happy & didn't feel the need to work on anything else. It was like since I was feeling better, he was better & everything was good. We were really happy for the first year or so, but we really got stuck in a rut this past year.(typical FT working parent stuff, illnesses, 3 year old etc.)

About a month ago, he said he felt he was at the same point again. He realizes now that he can't "fix me" but years of trying to and feeling rejected or not connected emotionally have "worn him down" (his words) and he doesn't feel anything for me anymore. By putting myself down, I've convinced him that I'm unattractive. (Again, his point of view). Once again, I'm back in counseling and really trying to work through my issues, but now he feels that he doesn't have enough "left in the tank". Although he's not 40, his dad had serious medical issues, and H is convinced that he will not live until he's 80 or 90 and wants to be happy. (MLC anyone?) I've bought the DB book but haven't read all of it yet.

He says the best case scenario would be for us to work it out, but he's not sure if he'll ultimately get the emotinally /physically close relationship that he wants. He said he's afraid it might be a day late & dollar short. Neither one of us can really afford to live alone right now and there's our son to consider. I don't think things are as bleak as he seems to think. There were lots of times I felt HE was the disconnected one.

So right now I'm just going through misery, waiting for him to make up his mind. I was doing a really good job of trying to stay positive, focus on taking care of me and not pushing. The past couple of days, though, it's been really tough. I couldn't stop crying, was physicially sick and just couldn't put myself together.

Deep down I really believe that he wants to stay, he's just scared. My only DB strategies seem to be to stay positive & work on myself and not push. We don't normally fight about anything, we get along great, we laugh, we just feel like roommates right now. He honestly wanted my opinion at one point and I rationally talked w/ him about how we can easily change this & get our connection back if he wants it. I try not to pursue or push, but he asked.

I just don't know what to do. We have a wonderful life together. I don't think there is an EA and definitely not a PA. We still live together, same bed, but no physical contact, really. He'll hug me if I'm upset (working through abuse issues, etc.) and tell me ILY on the phone and in the AM before he leaves for work. But that's it. I get a quick peck kiss in AMs before work because he drives a lot & says he never knows what might happen & doesn't want to leave without doing that.

I know we have a lot of positives going for us, but the statement that it might be a day late & dollar short just guts me. I'm so scared that he's just DONE.

Has anyone been through a similar experience, or could give me some encouragement? I really need it right now. Thanks.

[~¤DG¤~]

Hi there,

I totally feel for you. As someone who suffers from depression myself I know how hard it can be. Good for you for getting back into counseling for yourself. Stick with it.

As for your M-just take things one day at a time. Focus on your 180's and gGAL for yourself. I do see positives in your sitch, and I'd like to believe that there is always hope.

Keep posting. We have some wonderful supportive people here and you've come to the right place.

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

DG, thanks so much for your reply. I hope you are seeing some positives in your sitch, too. I'm trying to catch up with the board.

I am trying really hard to focus on "my stuff" right now and what I need to do to take care of me. It's just so hard to be around him sometimes when he acts cold. Not uncaring, but no affection whatsoever. I try not to let it show that it bothers me. I just wonder when he's going to pull his head out of his rear and figure out we have a lot worth saving!

I'm still working on reading DB. Haven't made it all the way through yet.

[Croppin]

Hurt-but-Hopeful, Do try to stay positive. I too am still living with H. He says he does not want to give up OW. It is hard. I've signed up for three 5K runs and am losing tons of weight (people really noticing now) and am out reconnecting with friends. I pay attention to my appearance at all times now (for me) and focus on my children and extended family (including his which I am close too). It seems to me, that me acting "as if" is paying off and I'm seeing small successes. He's still thinking separation, and I've set some clear boundaries on what I will tolerate as far as OW (as in I will not be openly disrespected in the town we live in for example, and since I do all the finances, he had better figure out a way to keep any activity out of my face). I don't push, because obviously when I found out, I asked for him to give her up. That was not going to happen, but it does feel good to draw some parameters where I keep a level of respect in my home. Hope that makes sense.

Also what helped me was I set a date in my mind that I was going to do nothing out of anger, hurt, desperation or depression. That sort of helped me on the days that were harder. Any sort of move to separate or leave would not come from me for a certain period of time. If he wants out so badly, then go. I'm not going to do it for him. He's still here and it's been 6 weeks with no indication of him making any sort of decision. Stay strong. We are here for you.

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

Kinda journaling: I think I surprised him Sat night by telling him I was going to a new church, where I didn't know anybody, by myself on Sunday. We've gone in different directions spiritually lately. Last year, he started questioning whether God existed. I think this is definitely an early MLC or something. Anyway, going somewhere completely new with people I don't know at all is really out of character for me. Not something I would normally do. And it felt good! I wasn't as nervous or stressed about it as I thought I would be. It felt good to be around nice, supportive people in a happy place. I wanted to take S (3 yo) with me but H thought it would be best if I went by myself & checked it out first, which I agreed as it was a reasonable idea.

When I came home, they had gone to the park. I took the time to start cleaning the house (something I slacked on when I was feeling depressed). I vacuumed which is supposed to be one of H's chores. I hate it. They came home just as I was finishing up. I was kind of glad he "caught me in the act". S went up for his nap & H went outside to work in the garage. I did some more cleaning & did some work I brought home. Later, I also took out the trash, which is another of H's chores, but it needed to be done.

I never mentioned anything about the church & he didn't ask. I didn't make a lot of conversation but stayed upbeat & pleasant. I'm so tired of his depressing remarks. For instance, he noticed something on a box he hadn't seen before. I was just trying to make pleasant small talk, & said, "It's amazing what happens when you look". Him: "Not necessarily." Sheez.

After dinner, I gave S a bath & we put him to bed. After that, I went to our room to do some reading & journaling. He came in to get his stuff to take a shower. I was still there when he came back down & he asked me if I was going to read for a while. I said yes, and he went into the living room to watch a movie. The movie just happened to be over about the same time I was finished. I came into the kitchen & he said, "Did you fall asleep?" Me: "Nope." We both got ready for bed & once we got in bed he seemed pretty chatty. Telling me all about his time w/ S at the park & at lunch. I responded pleasantly but didn't really initiate a lot. He started complaining that his stomach was bothering him (stress induced by all of this by his own admission) and he didn't sleep well the night before. He asked me what time our appt w/ MC was on Thurs. I was the first to roll over w/ my back to him & say good night.

I'm trying not to take his continued "stomach problems" and negative statements to be a clue to his current mindset. But it's hard to truly ignore. I'm trying to detach & keep in mind I can't fix him or change his mind. I can only do what I need to do to take care of me. (Taking care of my son is a given.) Easier said than done, and I catch myself trying to analyze him.

I talk w/ the therapist in IC the day before our appt, which I'm glad about. It makes me feel more prepared to meet with her together. I hope he makes an appt for IC for himself, but at this point he still thinks the problem is all me. I am no longer believing that and taking that to heart.

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

Croppin, thanks. I just saw your comment now. My posts are delayed because of being moderated, which hopefully won't be much longer. I don't know how you do it in the same house with an OW in the picture, but I guess we never know until we go through it ourselves. Good for you for setting your boundaries.

Last night, I should have detached more. I had a meeting after work, and had S with me. H called me around 7:30 or so to see if we were close to being done. I left about 10 minutes later & called him. I picked dinner up on the way home. H seemed more engaged in talking with me and looking at me last night. I hope it wasn't my imagination. But it felt hopeful. After we put S to bed, we both went to the bedroom to change out of work clothes. He laid down on the bed while I was changing & I thought maybe he might want to talk, so I laid down too after I was done. We chatted a bit about work & S, but that was it. I was about to get up & find something to do when he suggested we watch TV for a little bit. Which we did. Our conversations were pleasant and we laughed, but pretty superficial. It felt more natural, but it's been like that before and the next day he'll be back to sullen, withdrawn H. I left the room before he did to get ready for bed & he came in shortly after.

I'm still trying to "read" him, when I need to be detaching. I'm anxious for my IC appt tomorrow because I have a lot I want to talk about to prepare for our joint appt on Thursday.

Question - the therapist told H that he would just know when he was "done". Is that bad? Of course, I want her to say everything to make him stay, but it does seem reasonable. He's questioning his feelings and doesn't know if it's a "day late & dollar short" to fix things. I just don't trust his feelings right now since he seems to be in the fog & sees everything negatively. *sigh* I just wish he'd see how fixable this all is.

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

Wow, it's kinda frustrating having my posts delayed. When does that end?

I have my IC today. I honestly don't know what either of us plan to accomplish in our joint appt on Thurs. The last time he went by himself, he said that I could make the appt for us at my next IC, but he wasn't going to schedule another IC for himself. Hopefully he'll change his mind because I really think it would help him. I plan to use this appt to kinda prepare myself for Thursday. When we went through "the s**t" last time, he didn't want to go to the C together until he decided that he whether he was going to stay. So I guess it's a positive that he is willing to keep going now.

He's been more engaged in conversation & seems happier the past few days. It's definitely a change since the week after his IC and our talks last week. He's talked about his brother & family coming to visit us this summer and what "WE" would do with them. I'm trying not to read too much into this. But I did read one of Michelle's blog posts that mentioned not missing the small positive steps and using that encouragement.

I'm trying to think of ways to do 180's. Going to a new church alone where I didn't know anyone is a big 180 for me. I also made an appt for a haircut on Fri at a new salon that I had hesitated for a long time to go to. The stylist is a daughter of a woman H works with, and I asked him to get her business card for me. He asked me a few times if I had made an appt, but stopped since the ILYBNILWY bomb. I'm going to get a new style. Something to make me feel good. I hope I surprise him at the same time.

I would hope at our MC Thurs that somehow he will figure out that he's looking at everything negatively & that's really not how things are. Maybe he'll figure out this is mostly MLC. I'm not saying I couldn't have done things any better; there are lots of things I need to improve on to help our R. But he's only seeing me & my depression as the problem. He's not seeing his contribution or the fact that this is so fixable.

Once again, I'm worrying about what he thinks & how he feels. I still haven't gotten the detachment down. I'm trying to remember the positive things he's said ("I don't want this to be it" re: R) without getting my hopes up.

We're still at a place where we can talk about things. He wants to feel more emotionally connected. He said he felt like our R revolved around my feeilngs & what was going on with me & he didn't get what he needed. One of the 180s that I have tried is not asking him if he's okay when he's sullen or when he complains about not sleeping well. I used to do that a lot - ask him if he was okay, and he'd say Yes! You keep asking me that! But I'm trying to find a balance between trying to change my response so that he can feel more emotionally connected and doing things differently. It's so confusing.

I'm having a hard time coming up with different things to do since we really don't fight. A lot of what DB talks about seems to involve fights. I need to get & read DR, too, I guess. We still get along fine, laugh, do most things together as a family. We still sleep in the same bed. I'm trying to let him take the lead on saying ILY (which he still does w/a kiss before he leaves for work & on the phone) and give him space & not pursue.

But there's also acting "As If". He says I've lost my confidence & that's part of what attracted him to me. I'm finding it hard to let him take the lead on some of this stuff, but still feel confident. Letting him end the phone call & seeing if he'll say ILY is awkward sometimes. I think he does it on purpose to see if I'll just hang up or say it. I'm going to to try to be more confident & end the calls myself next time. I just don't know whether to confidently say ILY or just say ok, bye. Anybody got a crystal ball I can borrow?

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

My posts from yesterday haven't shown up yet, but here's what happened at MC today:

I guess my DB'ing is working because he said he's frustrated & angry that now I'm doing all the things he's always wanted me to do and I'm everything he always wanted, but why did it have to take this long? Why did it have to happen once he felt like he was done? I tried very hard at validating him, because I truly do understand, and to explain why I felt like I suddenly "get it". He said he's still not feeling attracted to me or like he wants to be affectionate because he hasn't decided what to do. But I said, You have to be willing, which the MC agreed with. He's turned himself off and has acknowledged that by saying he was purposefully cold because he didn't want things to just go back to the way they were.

He says he can see the changes I've made and really feels like I'm not just temporarily changing or doing things just for him. Which is good, because I'm not. I apologized for the fact that it took me so long to understand some things & make some changes. I still feel like he's placing a lot of the blame for things on me, but that's something we can deal with at another time. However, I think I got my message across as to why I figured it out now, and that it's going to "stick".

The thing he said that gives me the most hope, other than I'm now everything he's always wanted, is that he said, "maybe I just need to feel angry & get that out of the way & I'll feel it again." He also said, for the second time, that he doesn't want this just to be it, but he's basically concerned that it's too late for him. As I understand it, it's not too late if he wants it to work. That all gives me hope that yes, he does want it work, and he's just to process these changes & let himself get to the place where he wants to be a couple again.

So I am cautiously optimistic. This is the best I've felt since the ILYBNILWY bomb. I'm going to be stronger & better with or without him. I would just like him to see that our M can be stronger & better as well. I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing - keeping PMA, taking care of me & S, doing things that make me feel good, putting my best foot forward, and giving him space & time. Something I need to work on - stop being defensive sometimes when he's saying how he feels. I caught myself doing this today during MC & I could see how it immediately made him frustrated & I felt like it set things back for a moment.

We set another MC appt but not for another 3 wks due to his work schedule. I have renewed faith that he'll start making baby steps back to the R. I don't know when, but I hope it's soon.

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

This weekend was nice. We both had Friday off of work. When I got home Thursday after MC, he seemed really upbeat and back to his normal self. Still no affectionate moves on his part. Even though it felt very normal, and I had to contain myself not to hug him or cuddle up on the couch like we normally do, I kept my distance. Sat and Sun was pretty much the same. Happy, upbeat, laughing & he was even teasing me some. He seemed more like himself. I thought that maybe small touches here and there might jumpstart his affections again. Nothing big, or pressuring. Just a hand on his arm if I was reaching for something near him. Rubbed his arm when I said good night in bed. We were sitting on the couch watching a movie with S. S usually sits between us, but Sun he asked me to sit next to H so he could lay on the pillow on the end. We were kinda squished together. H laid back and started to snooze so I leaned over on him to do the same, and then S leaned over on me. He didn't move over or anything but no real response, either. Unfortunately, the phone rang a little while later & I left him to nap on the couch while S watched his movie.

Last night I told him ILY after saying good night, our old routine, and he said it back. This AM he came to give me his routine kiss & ILY before leaving for work. I hope it's not my imagination, but this AM it seemed like a longer kiss than the usual cursory, rushed peck I've been getting lately. He said he kept doing that because of being on the road so much & you never know what could happen. This AM felt like a REAL kiss and not an obligation.

Then he called me early this AM to ask how S did when I dropped him off at school. He used to do that all the time, but hadn't called me much at work recently. We mostly talked about S. He told me what his plans were for work that day (he does service work & can be called all over the place in a given day). We hung up, usual ILY, which hasn't changed recently. Then he called me back about 10 minutes later. The girl who cut my hair is the daughter of a lady he works with. He called to tell me what the girl had said to her mom about meeting me & doing my hair. It was all positive & I was glad he called.

All of that seems so positive. He even talked this weekend about deciding before winter whether to keep one of our cars or trade it in for a new one. That goes counter to him leaving because neither one of us can afford to live separately right now, much less with a car payment. Both of our cars are currently paid off.

My plan is just to keep doing more of the same. Keeping a PMA, although it's hard when I still feel shut out from his emotions & affection, keep doing things for me, and hope that he comes around.

I know I haven't been in this sitch at long as some of the people around here. I just don't know whether to do anything differently, or not. It all seems to be working. I'm feeling better about myself, he's noticing and hasn't left yet. Are we piecing? He has agreed to keep going to MC, but still hasn't said, Yes, I am staying and working on this.

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

The rollercoaster is in full effect. I let myself get my hopes up too much after our appointment Thursday and the positive signs over the weekend. Monday night I was reading a book about dealing with past trauma (the source of my depression) and doing some journaling. Some things were on my mind & bothering me so we talked a little about that stuff, not R. Before going to sleep he put his arm around me in bed. He also said ILY on his own. Tues AM was another AM of a "real" kiss and ILY before he left for work.

Then Tuesday night he said he might want to take the next appointment we have scheduled for MC to do a solo appt instead. WTH. He usually only wants to speak with the counselor alone if he has questions or wants someone else's perspective on an issue. I'm fine with him going alone - I think he should. But 1)That appt is 3 weeks since the last one and he'll then be out of town for a week, so it will be another 2 weeks from then before we can go again. and 2)I started freaking out that maybe he felt he just didn't feel anything for me anymore. Not even a spark or anything to build on. Maybe he decided he was done.

I didn't show it, but I felt anxious all day Wednesday. I have had some messages going back & forth with his brother on Facebook. His brother went through about 2 years of hell with his wife and they have reconciled & are doing great. I don't talk to his brother to find out what H says, but because his brother knows him and our situation the most. His brother told me that he encouraged H to see the counselor alone, so that made me feel better.

Everything else has still been going well. Tues night he again said ILY on his own before rolling over to go to sleep. Still upbeat for the most part and said ILY on the phone first before hanging up last night. I just feel like the limbo and anxiety is wearing me down.

I KNOW I can't worry and analyze every thing he does or says. I KNOW I should only concentrate on myself and what I should be doing for me. Sometimes it's just so tiring. I seriously felt like things were going so well through Monday that any minute he would hug me and say he wanted to stay. That he wanted to work on our M and he wanted ME. I know things aren't going to turn around overnight. I'm just so tired of this. I'm sorry, I must sound so whiny to some people here who have gone through worse and for much longer. For now, I have to be content with the fact that he's still home, still in our bed, still minorly affection and pleasantly interactive, and still hasn't said he's done. I have to remember those are all big positives and I have to be the biggest positive. This is my life whether he's in it or not, and I want to make it positive for me.