The Moment of Clarity

[Truegritter]

I think that you consider yourself somewhat enlightened, as you should. But you believe that your W probably is not. BUT, you also found in your process what the meaning of unconditional love is to you... and what your vows mean to you.

I struggled with this paradox as well Denver and you will see it in my thread.

If we leave once we are "enlightened" how does that make us different than what they chose to do?

For me I had to continue my journey to stand for my M.

In spite of what my W was choosing.

It was a process of detachment. I couldn't do the LRT and didn't think it was right for my sitch.

I did have to go dim for a while when I realized it was stopping ME and I was stuck watching my W and every little thing in our interaction that would give me hope.

Hope and expectatipon. They are different. I have hope that my W will complete her journey. I have hope that may still include me.

I don't expect it. I don't let myself get attached to any outcome.

Along the way you learn through your own suffering and pain what all this means to you.

How would you reconcile those 2 ideas? 1) Not sure about reconciliation with W bc of where she is at in life, and 2) loving her unconditionally and wanting to be true to your word?

It takes two people to make a healthy M. If one is not healthy then the other is relagated to the role of co-dependent or fixer.

THAT is what I learned that I was and continued to be after we split.

I wanted to save her from her own choices.

THAT is not healthy for me. THAT is not healthy for her.

So what you see on my thread, where I am today, is a man who has walked down a very hard road.

I have had to face myself in the mirror and be honest for what I chose(in my M)was choosing(through this process) and will choose.

Will choose?

What if your W came to you right now, and, as mine has, gave you an indication that there are thoughts of reconciliation in her mind and heart? What would you do? What would you do if what your W needed for that to grow into something more was some affirmation that you still want her? Would you continue to make her initiate all contact?

I would pay attention to her actions not her words.

I would ask myself what it might look like if she had done her work and started to make changes in herself to take responsibility in our M.

What I would need to see to place my trust in her again.

I would look, NOT LISTEN, to what I think it would take for me to enter into a NEW relationship with my W.

My old M was DOA. My W has some serious issues from her childhood that she must confront and begin to deal with.

I cannot help her with that. No one can.

She is still with OM I believe and until that bandaid is ripped off there will not be any steps by her toward a healthy relationship.

To be honest I was the OM when we met trying to save her.

All of this was very tough for me because I love my W.

I no longer confuse fixing her life, taking care of her and being available for her as a crutch ...

with love.

There is nothing I can do for her right now as much as that is a painful thing for me to realize.

She must figure this out on her own. Without me or feeling that she can reach to me for emotional fix UNTIL she is committed to our M.

That means us as a team. Not anyone else. The two of us. And unfortunately she does not choose that right now.

It is the truth. And it took over a year and 120 pages of thread that you have read to get there.

My point is, isn't there a certain point where you have to recognize that DB and, specifically, LRT, has worked, has gotten you to a certain point, and finally, that you need to do some things that may be considered pursuit in order to move farther towards M reconciliation?

No matter what I say you will do what you feel is right and should.

Experience is a good teacher Denver.

Until you can live WHO YOU ARE every day.

Until that nice new jacket that you got at the salvation army, that is comfortable for you ...

Becomes your skin.

You will be living your old life and your old M.

When you are ready, you can take steps with confidence and without fear because there is NO way for you to fail.

Your personality is what everyone sees. Your character is who you are when the lights go out at night and you are alone in the dark.

Your best thinking got you here.

Your W's best thinking got her where she is.

The both of you are here in this M where it sits today because of what you chose and/or continue to choose.

How will that ever change?

What part of it do YOU control?

Sorry if this is too personal Grit.

My sh!t is out there for this very reason Denver.

I do not shy away from my journey good or bad, mistakes or triumphs.

And this work will never be done for me.

[zengypsy]

One last thing Denver....

Sometimes you have to slow down, to move ahead.

[Denver_2010]

Wow!! Lot of great, thought provoking, posts since I logged off last night! I wish that I had time to really think about them and respond to some of them. I will tonight.

I hope that everyone has a great day!

BITS
Denver

[Jack_Three_Beans]

As the fantasy of her WAW plan comes crashing down, I am protecting her. But again, if I don't take some action to protect her, then I am the same a*s she left in the first place.

Tough choice and good point.

My on-line gaming addiction is what lead to my neglect of my wife. I ignored her.
Later when I LRTed, I ignored her as well.
How was it different?

On the surface? If you just look at the ignoring part...nothing.

But, I no longer played computer games. I worked out, when I was around her prior to the LRT I was as fun, and kind as I could be, I GALed, I proved I wanted her but did't need her, I showed her many of my changes.
When I LRTed, I took all of that away. All of it. I interacted strictly on a business level, regarding our boys and our bills.
I was not mean, I was not nice.

Previous to this, I ignored her because of my failing.
Afterwards, I ignored her because of hers.
In the middle I showed her that I had changed.

Make sense?

[bustorama]

As the fantasy of her WAW plan comes crashing down, I am protecting her. But again, if I don't take some action to protect her, then I am the same a*s she left in the first place.

Tough choice and good point.

My on-line gaming addiction is what lead to my neglect of my wife. I ignored her.
Later when I LRTed, I ignored her as well.
How was it different?

On the surface? If you just look at the ignoring part...nothing.

But, I no longer played computer games. I worked out, when I was around her prior to the LRT I was as fun, and kind as I could be, I GALed, I proved I wanted her but did't need her, I showed her many of my changes.

When I LRTed, I took all of that away. All of it. I interacted strictly on a business level, regarding our boys and our bills.
I was not mean, I was not nice.

Previous to this, I ignored her because of my failing.
Afterwards, I ignored her because of hers.
In the middle I showed her that I had changed.

Make sense?

Hey, Jack, been awhile =) BTW, are you on the alt???

Few questions:
1) How long was your middle (changing/showing) phase?

2) How long was your LRT before W began her own changing?

3) How did you transition from your your own changing phase to the the LRT phase (speech? letter? just did it/moved on without any over declaration of what was happening)

I'm in dim/LRT myself now having "switched" over around New Year's from my changing phase. Curious how your own scenario went.

And Bob, good luck. She needs to change herself, your own actions cannot and will not do that for her. She needs to (keep) doing her own work. You can just work on yourself and your own feelings. If you try to do her work for her, you will be self-sabotaging and hurting yourself.

[bustorama]

Heh, sorry Denver, I called you Bob

[Mach1]

Heh, sorry Denver, I called you Bob

Bob ?

Denver ?

Don't put him on an island like that....


: )

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Hey Busto : )

I HAVE to point out it the time is not the same for everyone, ok?
I also have to point out that I didn't have many, "I know I should BD....BUT I didn't..." instances.

1) About 8-9 months of her seeing me and my changes.

2) 4 months, before she wanted to talk and wanted a chance.

3) Speech. A Letter? Come on? Really? : ) It was less a speech than a statement, a declaration.

A few more points.

I understand that MLC makes some people groan. That's fine I hope they never have to change their minds. My wife had a life crisis, different set of rules on DBing, as in...longer time frame.

I was, well my wife...we were lucky in that she came out of it alot quicker than most. Did my DBing play a part in that? I dunno, it could have been the bagle she had that morning for breakfast.

My DBing played a part in her coming back I believe to my core.
Coming back to a fat shmuck still lodged in his computer chair, letting the kids eat...ice cream for dinner? Oh hell what woman wouldn't sign up for that?

One last point:
Piecing ever since, every day, some harder than others mostly at the begining. DBing everyday too. The finish line isn't getting back together, its staying together. I kind of want her to throw herself weeping inconsolably across my grave. Just kidding...sort of. : )

[Jack_Three_Beans]

man I sukc...

edit:
I also have to point out that I didn't have many, "I know I should DB....BUT I didn't..." instances.

[sandi2]

Sandi, you like Truegritter are such straight shooters. I really admire that about you both because you tell us things sometimes that we don't want to hear but need to.

Ah, thank you sweetie. I am trying to change my style in order to stay on the board, but as you all know.....changes are hard!