First post to the site, will try and make it brief.
Wife and I have been together for 15 years, married 9. Have three kids D7, D4, S3 and the bomd was dropped on my January 12, 2011. have been having problems for the last five years and have been to 2 marriage counselors. Main problem is disagreement on how to discipline our kids, and other stuff (anger, resentment, immaturity) has only made things worse.
In her words this divorce has been on her mind for the last year and she finally made the decision because she does not foresee any change. I agree that in last few years we have went from partners to roommates. She told me that she is not happy with the person she has become, she changed this way because of me and she doesnt want to live her life this way anymore. I moved out the next day.
After a few days of whoa is me, I changed gears and am determined to show her that I can and will understand what it takes for a healthy marriage. Found this site and ordered/reading The Divorce Remedy. Trying to do 180's by giving her room and not bringing up R at this time. To say that this has been hard is an understatement! We had dinner last Thursday and talked for 3 hours. At end of conversation I know I saw a crack in the wall that she has built up due to her saying "Just caused the papers are filed doesnt mean we have to sign them right away" and her agreement that the previous MC didnt work beacuse we only focused on kids and not us. I spoke to her about RETROUVAILLE and she asked for the paperwork and said she would look into it.
Well 3 days later I go to the house to drop off kids after the weekend and find all of my belongings packed into tubs in the garage. When I asked about it, all it did was lead to a fight and everything that was bulit up during dinner was torn back down. I am hurting right now. To me 9 years is not enough time to just throw in the towel and there has to better ways to make on self better then by getting a divorce.
So I post this for 2 reasons. I hope that by writing it out I will feel better and I hope somebody reads this and is willing to ask questions about my situation and nudge me in the right direction. I wish I could affored the DB coach but $ is a wee bit tight right now. Thanks in advance for any and all help.
Me 32 W 32 D 7 D 4 S 3 M 11/7/2001 Bomb 1/12/2011 Papers Filed 1/18/2011
That dinner that everything was going so well with, was followed by 3 days later.
What happened during those 3 days? Did you fall back into old habits and patterns thinking everything was going smoothly?
These changes in yourself, if temporary are just tricks. If these changes in yourself are because you see the need to make them, then they are for real.
She is going to be looking for the 'trick'.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Be more specific about your part in the breakdown of the M. You mention disciplining the kids... how do the two of you see things differently here?
Is there anything else that you accept as your role in breakdown of M?
What are your 180s?
Are you GAL?
Have you had any period of time where you have gone dark with W (no contact) since the bomb?
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I swear when I win the lottery I'm sending money to the DB coaches so everyone can get some coaching. I know how frustrating it is to need help but not be able to afford it. But there are great people here who are more than willing to help you.
Hank, what is the waiting period in your state for divorce? She packed up your stuff in tubs, did you actually take your stuff? She can't do that. Why did you decide to leave? Was this your decision, her decision or a mutual decision. How often do you both speak? Are you speaking on the phone? Are you texting?
When you say that you are doing 180's, what does that mean? For example, you said that there were anger issues. Are those yours? If so, how have you changed that? For instance, the fight... gotta learn to diffuse those things at all costs. What would you say were the breakdowns in the marriage. What do you think your contribution was to that? What can you do right now to turn those behaviors around immediately?
Others are going to have more questions.
Your posts are going to take awhile to post at the beginning. Do not become frustrated with this. You will see them show up in the evening. Once you have been good and follow all the rules, then they will let your posts go through immediately.
Ok, so the good news? Your W is just like a lot of WAS (walk away spouses) right now. She's riding a roller coaster and has taken you for the ride. GET OFF THE COASTER. She needs to see the person she fell in love with all those years ago. Be that person. Your W clearly is not sure what she wants. While I think she filed fast in relation to the bomb, you do state she has been thinking about this for a year. But she is confused. So, you have time to pull your 180's. These changes need to be genuine because she IS going to test you and she IS going to push every button you have. But you need to change, BE CONSISTENT and upbeat no matter what is thrown at you. Even if divorce goes through, that is just a piece of paper. It is not over until you say it is over. You have to remember that. Some days that is hard, I know, I struggle with the same exact issues.
Thank you for your genuine interest in your responses. I greatly appreciate it. I hope by giving more insight to my sitch that I will answer your questions.
The underlying problem in our marriage is that we come from two completely different backgrounds. My parents D when I was in fifth grade. Mom is/was drank herself into depression and Dad had us walking on eggshells and fixed everything by yelling. Wife comes from 180 of that. Big in numbers, very tight emotionally, talks problems out. We were The Simpsons, they were The Waltons.
Growing up in the atmosphere I developed the ability to make light of the situation. I was very outgoing, very funny and great to be around. I could work a room better than anybody I knew. This is what drew my wife to me. We date, we marry and we have first child. Things change from there.
We never come to an agreement on how to raise the kids. I drew from what I knew, they do something wrong I yell at them. They don't listen, they get spanked. Demand respect. She says kids will be kids. As long as they are not setting house on fire they are fine. Never yell, never spank! Earn respect. This along with a stressful job and hours I was working, her determination to interact with her family like she did before we were married and my reluctance to give into her family (I believe I did this because I was jealous of what she had growing up that I didn't) and the way that we were both changing caused us to start to drift apart.
What changes? I became more introverted, alienated my friends and family, fuse got shorter with wife and kids and one that caused the most problems was I started to worry about what others thought of me. By that I mean when were out as a family (movie, dinner, vacations, etc) I would not allow the kids to be kids. I demanded that they behave because I did not want other people around me to think I was not doing my job and being a bad parent. She begins to change also, shorter fuse with kids, not as happy and outgoing as she was, negative a lot of time, and blames me for these changes in her. Her words are that my constant negativity has rubbed off on her and to a degree she is right.
So to try and fix these problems we try different methods. Two MC but each time we go we only focus on how we are with kids, we do not try to fix us! I go to different DR and am diagnosed depressed, bi-polar and manic depressive and am given different mind altering drugs to correct problems. I use mental health as crutch and believe magic pill will solve all problems. These are quick fixes that do not work. Wife becomes extremely frustrated and begins thinking of D last year. Took full time job to try and change things up and in June an episode happens that gets this ball rolling. Family goes to movies, kids are bad, I lose my temp, huge fight in front of kids, and wife kicks me out of house for week. Wife says she wants D, I say over my dead body, I will not put kids through what I went through. She says Trial Separation, I say nope! If I leave I will not get back in. I beg my way back in with I will change and set myself up to see DR. Go to DR get magic pill, he tells me and wife that this will cure all, it doesn’t five months later it is back to the way it was. Wife decides that I can't change; I am who I am and begin talking to lawyer about D. December I come to understanding that what we have is not working. Wife and I have no emotional contact and we are roommates and married. I tell myself either fix it or give her D. I decide to fix it. I do not tell her about my thoughts but believe that if I fix myself with kids, I get her back. I start taking interest in kids and wife. No fighting or yelling. Try to be happy about everything. (Keep in mind that I didn't find DB yet and didn't look up anything online, just tried what I thought was best) Wife had already talked to her mom about the D and after two weeks of my changes she went to her mom and told her that I must know what is going on because I am kissing her ***. She confronts me and I tell her that we are not happy and I am trying to fix it. I feel as if I am making progress but I realize now that I made errors. I didn't research or ask for help and I kept wife in the dark. By doing this I didn't see that I was falling into old patterns and all my hard work was undone by one argument. So here we are....
When bomb is dropped I react different. I understand that what we have is not healthy and that a change needs to be made. I agree that separation is needed and pack a few bags and move to family. I then proceed to make things worse. E-mails, texts, phone calls, lunch invites and so on. I also keep exact routine with kids; When I was still in house, in morning we would split who takes who and in afternoon I would pick oldest up from school and wife would get home few hours later. After I move out I continue to do this only when I pick them up I bring back to my mom's house and wfie gets them a few hours later. This went on for two nad half weeks. At dinner on Thursday she tells me that everything has been great because it has been the same! Only difference is that at night when kids go to bed I am not there.
We have the dinner and like I said thinks look good. I had kids for the weekned and like I said when I drop them off there is my stuff.
-The waiting period in my state is 60 days. As of now I have not been served with papers but that could just be cause of the weather.
-All of my belongings have been removed from the master bedroom and placed into tubs in the garage. She has totally redone the master bathroom and got all new pillows and blankets for the bedroom. Except for a few items hanging in the closet I have been removed from that room.
-When I saw my stuff in the tubs I got defensive and questioned her motives. She got defensive and began telling me that I need to focus on myself and quit worrying about her. I asked what about our conversation at dinner and she said that I can't change in three weeks and I need to start to accept the D. I told her I didnt want the clothes, she said she didnt want the kids to know that my clothes were packed into tubs.
My good 180's:
1. Not one time since I have been out of house have I lost temper or yelled at kids. All talk when they do things wrong. No spank or timeout yet.
2. When I have kids make an effort to find things to do outside of house (movie, resturante, church, drum museum, mall) and have sut my brain off during those times to allow kids to have fun. Not one time did anybody get any sense that hey did something wrong.
3. Tried to GAL by hanging with brothers and started going bowling by myself after work to stop just sitting in house being miserable.
4. Found a new counselor that I like and just talking about my sitch. no drugs.
After this weekned I have tried to go somewhat dark. I do not call her unless it is about the kids and when I talk to the kids I do not talk to her. This week I have been able to break the routine of picking up kids before and after work and am letting her do it unless it is the days I have them. I am making plans with kids and not inviting her and offering the info on how it went. I am stopping trying to get her make plans with me for now. I am still very interested in going to RETROUVAILLE and the one in my area is in March so I know if I want to get us in I have to bring it up to her a few weeks in advacne to make sure we can register.
I know this was long, I believe that since I put it all out here now I wont have to rehash it later. I have read DR and am putting it into action. Trying the LRT and have set my goals to try and see if/when this plan is working. I know I fall back into bad habits (After the dinner I tried to include her into my plans with the kids that weekend and I only pushed her back by rushing)
As you all know it is hard but what is also hard to explain is that after all these years, after all these DR and meds and MC, I truly have an understanding as to what is going on. I can't explain why. Is it the praying and church? The book I read? The fact that wife got my attention with filing for D? Something else I do not understand yet? I cannot answer in words, I only know that if we get back together or we don't I know now what it would take of me to move into the right direction to have a healthy and loving marriage. My FEAR is that is has cost me my marriage to figure it out.
1. You seem pretty calm, and quite knowledgable about the right tactics. But I wonder if I can help change your thinking slightly so that you can be even calmer. I was struck by 5 words you said twice in your list of 180's.
Not one time have I.....
When put that way, those words have a very defensive and almost argumentative ring to them. And I get why...you have battled the yelling demons all your life with your dad, and then with your marriage. The yelling problem has been amplified now that you know that you have to stop it to improve your marriage and your relationship with your kids. If I had to guess, you are telling yourself each and every day that you are doing better with things, almost to the point where you are sometimes really struggling to convince yourself that this is the truth. Those words kind of, and I only mean kind of, suggest that your confidence is lacking that 180's #1 and #2 above are going to stick.
And that's where I think you might be able to calm yourself even more. You're doing great with 180's #1 and #2! But maybe you should look at it as: "I haven't yelled at my kids when we've been out for a long time. I hope to be able to talk things out and avoid losing my temper from hereon." OR Kids seem to be able to have fun more now that
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
kids seem to be able to have more fun now that I am calmed down when we are out of the house.
What I really mean is, "Not one time" thinking is kind of extreme thinking...you MIGHT be setting yourself up for disappointment if you can't follow through forever. Let's face it kids are kids and sometimes it's hard not to lose your cool, particularly if they really do something unsafe or terribly disrespectful. If it should happen, don't be discouraged, you're still doing what you can to improve your demeanor in front of them for them and for YOU. I just don't want you to burn out thinking its never going to happen, and that your 180 will always be exactly 180.
2. Sounds like you're trying to play "beat the clock" with the Retroville weekend. I don't think that's the way to schedule it. You may be feeling like if you don't do it, then you haven't done all you could to save things. I'm thinking you don't want to pressure into doing it if she's not 110% into the idea. Like, she needs to have a releived smile a mile wide on her face when the topic comes up...you need to see the enthusiasm in her eyes, etc. You both have to have the right frame of mind for something like this, neither of you can have any reluctance. Skepticism, yes, but reluctance, no. I'd advise you to make sure that's the case.
Sorry about the split posts here...hit the wrong button last time.
I wish you well.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
I believe I understand what you are saying. I have the kids tonight so I will try and view the situation in a different light. Look at it in a positive way, not focus on what I haven't done but what the benefits have been for the kids.
As to the weekend, you are right. I am trying to beat the clock. I agree that it will not help us if I have to try and convince her to go. Worried that if this session goes by the next one in or close to our area is not for months. I going to try and continue my going dark and look for signs in the next few weeks that it is/might be working.
Being out of the house, it has been very hard for me to put faith into a certain technique because I feel she will not see the progress. Add on top that when I go over to house to get and see kids I see stuff like new debit cards, health insurance info, etc... It knocks me back down from where I have been able to climb up over the past days.
