Piecing is almost harder than before...

[Firstlove]

Harrier

here is a suggestion. Buy Michele's two books

The Sex Starved Wife
and
The Sex Starved Marriage

get two copies of each, one for you and one for your wife - and then after you have both read them - TALK

Just a thought

[Bolt]

It's been a week since the V-Day card thing and me really backing off and stopping all pressure. And man, I can REALLY feel a good vibe in the relationship. It's sorta weird for me to say that because I'm a pretty concrete, fact-based guy and this is just a feeling. Nothing tangible, nothing that I can put on a chart or graph and say "see it's 2.3% better than yesterday", but it just feel that way. Really good interactions with W. I feel like we are "just being". I'm still (over) analyzing everything, but that's just me and I keep it to myself.

Last night W after work, I picked up the kids and we met wife out for dinner. I swear it felt like she was leaning in to kiss me hello and then backed off. Maybe my mind, maybe not. She didn't kiss me, but I think she almost did. I didn't react at all. Old me (like a week ago) would have leaned towards her, then she would have kissed my cheek, but I think only to be polite. She want's this, she can come get it. I know she can't hold out much longer. And I'm here to tell you, the gettin' will be good when she does.

Anniversary in 2 weeks. Got to not F that up.

-x

Dear shadow of mine - I mean xyz - holy crap! That's exactly where I am. I can FEEL that we are getting a ton better and that EXACT same thing happened yesterday! She actually leaned in to kiss me and I just let her. I usually would have leaned back but didn't. It was a little kiss but it was there.

I've said exactly what you've said too - like she's holding back. Didn't you say an invisible hand? I can see that too!

Your attitude is right on too. It will be MUCH better in a few weeks when it does happen. I feel that way as well. I can wait for it because it will be SOOOO much better then.

It feels like we've turned a corner BUT we have to maintain focus and continue to grow.

Let's also not get TOO ahead of ourselves with expectations. I'm trying to stay in that high but not too high mode. Just let things progress.

I know I've touted this book like I wrote it but I didn't - Hold Me Tight - it's been a true eye opener just like DR was for getting my W back...

definitely check it out.

[Firstlove]

I celebrate your "almost kisses" gentlemen - I ache for that too in my sitch - but we are not there - not even close.

Baby steps are fabulous when they happen - I and I wish both of them continue for you both as you move closer together -literally

[Bolt]

harrier, I think your feelings are completely normal. Dude, I feel rejected when my W rolls over to the furthest part of the bed away from me - how rational is that? BUT I can't help it. It does feel like rejection.

My W, for two nights, couldn't sleep and fell asleep downstairs. It was nothing more than, she couldn't sleep and didn't want to wake me up. She watches Harry Potter that puts her right to sleep. THAT WAS IT!

But guess how I felt? I felt like crap. Like she didn't want to be around me. I also felt that the only REAL time that I get to be physically close with her is when we're in bed and I get those "free" cuddles. I get to hold her tight then. When she sleeps downstairs, I feel robbed of that...then I have to wait an entire 24 hours again to MAYBE get that feeling.

That's where my emotional/irrational mind goes.

But here's where I try to make a difference. I then think rationally. I think of the times she DOES touch me - even if it was a couple of days ago. I also think to where we WERE just a few short months ago. Dude, she was out the DOOR! We have to keep that perspective.

OH and another thing about other people's situations (OPS) - they are NOT the same as yours or mine. Our's are all different. Believe me, I get that too from friends - ML is part of a good marriage - I can't believe she's not ML with you - You haven't even made out in a couple of months? That's not good.

DON'T LISTEN to these lies. These come from people in COMPLETELY different sitches. They are not in your W's head or in your head. Is it odd to me that my W after 16+ years can't even say ILY or want to kiss me passionately? Heck yeah it is!

BUT

I haven't sat directly in her seat for the past 16 or even 8 years when I was taking her for granted. When she was going through all of this emotional emptiness. When she was simply doing her "wifely duty" to not rock the boat.

That all is going to take some healing.

I'm looking at a long battle here and I have no timeline. Do I wish it were sooner? A certain part of my body says Heck yeah!! BUT the rest of me says, no.

Because I want us to grow.

Dude, I can tell you that even the last few days, my W and I have grown a TON in our relationship. She is starting to trust again - I CAN FEEL IT. She shared a VERY deep emotion with me - exposed it and I wrapped love around it. Ever since then, we have been emotionally MUCH closer.

I DON'T want to rush in there with my needs when she is still getting her fill. Look at it this way...we have had our needs filled for so long while they weren't. It's ok to let the seesaw go the other way for a bit, isn't it?

It still goes back to your question about time. My thought is this. One - don't put a timeline on it overall. That puts pressure on you and in turn EVEN SUBCONSCIOUSLY puts it on her.

secondly - look at where you have come from. I try to go by the every other-ish day theory. I try to see if every other day or so, if our relationship is getting better.

Little things man...yesterday my wife gave me this smile that I haven't seen in a LONG time. It lit my world up - AND hers. That is a little step towards fantastic things.

DUDE, you ripped her heart out. You then put it back in her chest. You can't expect it to be healed overnight. Think of it as physical therapy. She has to learn how to sit, crawl, shuffle, walk, and then run...it's long and painful.

JUST be THERE for her for that. I have a feeling we'll be getting so much nooky we won't know what to do with it...

(at least that's my motivation)

do you want a little now? or a TON later?

[XYZ]

ugggh. That's my impatient side. You are, of course, right on the money. I just want it now. But I agree, great later is so much better than good now.

[Harrier]

Bolt,

At first I wanted to yell and scream about you accusing me of "ripping my wife's heart out." But in the end, it's true. I wasn't through years of emotional disconnect, it really through this past year.

the Nooky is fine and all, but I just want the hugs and kisses more than anything else. I want to feel that connection. There is a connection building, I feel it.

But it's a struggle at times. One time my wife was spending some time upstairs reading and I got kinda mad. She saw I was mad and I told her it felt like she was ignoring the family. she said "I wouldn't do things like that just to hurt you."

Nothing you've said is nothing I haven't told people here or myself in moments of rational thinking. It just those moments that rise up in me at least once a day where rational thinking goes out the window.

[Bolt]

harrier - sorry about the ripping the heart out comment..I didn't mean it THAT way...I should have used the analogy of breaking legs or something.

I simply meant to focus on the healing process

DOH! Sorry for any undue anger or sadness

ugh...the reading thing. I've gone through that. I think that EXACT same thing and have had that convo as well. But you know what, she'll start feeling "bad" about reading and feel guarded. My W did until I realized that - she's just reading...

[Harrier]

well guys. This is a tough post to write. I think I'm leaving piecing.

Huge fight tonight about the No. 1 topic of the day - Patience. At one point she said she was "done with this." I guess I was fooling myself thinking that we were moving along- of course I was going by what she said.

She said because I'm impatient just that shows her that I don't get how I really hurt her. Yeah, it might have been only about 7 months worth of damage, but it was equal to a lifetime of small hurts.

She said some really harsh things like "I don't know if we fit anymore," "maybe this can't work" The killer, the dagger in my heart was "I don't love you." She said that I need to back of and we both need to work on ourselves now, then maybe we can address the marriage part in a few months - why I'm leaving piecing.

We aren't divorcing/separating, basically she's giving me the chance to show her with my actions that I get it by not talking to her...ever about my impatience.

I need to fill in some details of my story. I haven't had the epiphany yet, like some of you. I need that. This may or may not help.

Basically, I was a total sh!t from February to October of 2010. I don't remember how or exactly when it started, but in February I started to get the feeling W was "pulling" away from me. During that month we got in a lot of little arguments and I accused her of possibly having an affair. I'd say stuff like "I know something's going on."

Then in early March, I told my W that I thought I was depressed and we went on a course of action. I saw a psychiatrist who prescribed anti Ds. However, I still couldn't shake the feeling that something was going on with my W. I checked her phone, phone records, emails, everything. I found nothing. Any exhange I saw with a guy enraged me and I went off on her.

I went of the Anti Ds in late April as the side effects were too much. Meanwhile, my wife was trying to accom0date my every demand. Spend more time with me, tell me ILY, hold my hand while driving, hug me. Stuff I NEVER cared about before. But I continued the snooping and even put a tracker on my wife's phone so I could see where she was.

Then I started to pull some really cr@ppy stuff. I threatened to kill myself a couple of times even holding a knife to my stomach in front of her. I'd stay bad stuff about her in front of our kids. Horrible stuff like if my wife was going upstairs I'd say, 'Mommy doesn't want to spend time with you." Real dirtball stuff.
I also threatened divorce quite a bit. Also made stupid jokes. One time we were going to the beach and I said to my W that I should call her my first wife. That really hurt her.

It was like that the whole summer. A few good days, then a crazy huge blowup where I would either threaten to harm myself or threaten divorce.

She tried so dang hard to accommodate my craziness, but it didn't help. Finally, I got on some good meds in August and started seeing an IC in October. But the damage was done. She was just ripped to shreds at that point. It was about that point that she began an EA with a guy she's known for about 10 years. I saw the emails, I still f'ing have her emails to him. She never used the Love word and neither did he, No secret plans to run off, but a lot about how much they liked each other and there was some innuendo for sure.

Of course when I found that stuff, it confirmed my fears and it eventually led to her wanting a divorce in November. November was the h-e-l-l we all know. She still kept up the EA.

She backed off divorce in December and agreed to cease contact with the guy. December was me giving her space, and just working on my stuff.

In January the expectations and lack of patiences started. It has intensified in the last few weeks. It's lead me to a bad place.

Bolt, XYZ - you guys are 1000X the man I am. You will make it because you can do what I can't now.

JTB- I admire the heck out of you. You've bared your soul here - warts and all. I respect that. I wish you were the Mod for this section, you have a ton of great advice and courage and strength I wish I did.

I don't know where this train is headed, but I've been given an ultimatum. We aren't in piecing because I can't talk a bout my needs and she can't talk about hers.

Good luck to you all.

M

[Harrier]

PS - a final note. You always here this process is a marathon

Let me tell you, I've done 5 marathons. I hate the marathon. I don't race like I should. Of course that doesn't stop me. I have my 6th this April in Boston. ;-)

[XYZ]

Harrier - Hang in there man. We all know that this process is a roller-coaster with many many many ups and downs. You're in a down right now. But that just means that an up will be coming when you least expect it. I know it's hard. It's probably the hardest thing you've ever had to do, I know it is for me. And it [censored] and it's not fair and you want to scream and run away. But would you quit a marathon in the middle? Apparently not since you've done 5 of them. Why would you quit this than? It's much more important that a road race, wouldn't you agree?

It's never too late to develop patience. If you haven't had it, start right the F now. Stop saying you can't do it and man up and f-ing do it. Always remember the best quote of all time: "Do or Do Not. There is No try." - Yoda.

You know what my IC told me? She said look either working on your marriage or heading towards D, you aren't going to be having sex right now either way, so why focus on it so much? Good question.

Remember not to believe what she says and only half of what she does. My coach gave me something good: tell yourself that She's trying to stay away from you, but man o man you know she can't hold out forever. You're that good.