Big talk tonight. I am a wreck, need support.

[hope2011]

I'm not new to DB but new to DB with this marriage. I DB'd in my 1st marriage for 2 yrs. Didn't save the marriage but it saved me.

The bomb dropped a few months ago, thought we were doing better. Bomb dropped again a few days ago. I am doing everything wrong. I am pathetic, needy, clingy, no confidence at all. I can't get my act together and I need to before this talk. I need some support without judgement. Need some friends who understand why I want to try to save it and not tell me I'm better off without him or other cliches. But most of all, I gotta get me back without causing more damage to the situation.

History:

Me - LBS, wife. 2nd marriage (1st 10 yrs), no kids, age 37. 1st H left me for OW. 2 other 2 yr relationships in the 8 yrs between marriages. I have major trust issues.

H - WAS. 3rd marriage (1st 8 yrs, 2nd 6 yrs), 2 teenagers, age 43. He left both his ex W's because he wasn't happy. Yes, I know I should've seen the big neon sign there.

Dated 1 and a half years, it was amazing, perfect. Best friends, happy, in love, supportive of each other.

M - 2008. Been a roller coaster the whole time. one thing after another hit and we handled it all badly.

Right after we met, he lost his job of 12 years making a very large salary with all the perks. He was out of work for 2 years, during which time he lost all his savings, his retirement, his car and almost his house. He has gone back 20 years in his career. He's in mortgage sales... need I say more? We got married when he was still unemployed. We had a "we'll tackle life together" attitude. That didn't last long.

In our first 2 years so far, he's on job #3 making 10% of what he used to. We've moved twice. We've dealt with teenager issues (attitudes, laziness, etc - typical stuff. We get along well). We each have had cancer scares. He's seen almost everything he worked for gone down the drain. We're keeping the house by a thread but that could go too.

He does not handle stress well at all. He keeps it all in, then explodes. He's not violent, just loud. Will yell at me or the kids over something stupid, when he's really just stressed. And I don't handle that well at all. I snap, get defensive, yell back. It escalates. I know this. I KNOW this. But I keep doing it. I'm so scared he'll hurt me, leave me. This is a bad dynamic. Our other big problem is if he does something wrong and I want to talk about it, he blows up. He can't handle criticism at all, he gets defensive. I'm the same way.

Bomb #1 - early December. Says he's not happy. I try harder. I find a lump in my breast, have extensive testing. He holds my hand through it all. We spend Christmas together, we sleep together, we have sex. I think everything is going better.

The bomb - Saturday I went to a wedding alone, after he fell asleep on New Year's Eve so I was alone then too. On my way home saturday night in the pouring rain and fog, the windshield wipers stop working. 7:00. I call him for help but by now I'm already angry and upset. He doesn't offer to come get me, tells me to keep driving or find a hotel. 11:00 he calls me. I made it to a hotel room. Took 45 minutes to drive 8 miles to the nearest hotel room. I was so upset I just txt him that I was fine and didn't need his help. Yes, passive agressive. He calls me at 8:00 am, to find out where I am. Comes to get me. We go get some breakfast, I ask him why he didn't come get me last night, he says he thought I was ok. Gets mad, walks out the restaurant, tells me in the parking lot it's over. Nothing will change. He's not happy. Later Sunday I find out he signed up for a dating site in early December at time of Bomb #1. Uploaded photos of him cropped out of photos of us. I'm devastated. When I ask him about the dating site, he says he signed up in December and hasn't been back on (true, I checked). That he wasn't happy and wants to see what else is out there.

That was a few days ago. It's been tense around here. He now says he's not sure what he wants. He wasn't wearing his ring yesterday, I asked him why. He said he took it off to work out and he put it back on. What I've learned over the past few days:

His reasons.... my job is my life (it's not, though it takes a lot of hrs but I've been working hard at finding help). It's taken over the house (I've been looking for an office for months). The house is a mess (it's not by anyone's standards, he's OCD). I'm now a slob because I wear sweats most days. I do. He's right. I've gained a good 15lbs since we got married, I wear my hair in a ponytail most days, I don't wear make up, I stopped working out. I'm not attractive anymore to him. We fight a lot. We do. But it's all fixable stuff. And I can't do it alone. He can't do stupid stuff like not pick me up when the car is undrivable and not expect me to get mad. Though I know that escalation is my fault. Then to balance it out when he's wrong, he threatens divorce so I'm too upset to get mad. That's emotional blackmail and not fair. He's negative about everything, everything. Us, the house, jobs, family, friends, everything. He's depressed but he won't get help, won't see a therapist, won't go to a doctor. Just wants to run.

This dating site thing... now he's cut me off his FB. I hacked his computer, I know he hasn't been on the dating site since he signed up. I know he's not talking to anyone else because I checked his phone and e-mails. I know he's not physically cheated because he's here all the time. But it's crushed me. I'm reliving the XH leaving me all over again. I can't sleep, when I do I have cold sweats, I haven't eaten in 3 days, when I tried to eat dinner with him last night I had to run to the restroom and throw up.

I feel like I have all this pressure to be some confident superwoman, gorgeous and sexy, with a spotless house, lots of money to fix all those problems and rebuild his self esteem too. But I'm not. I have no self-esteem right now, I find myself just standing near him hoping he'll tell me it's all a bad dream, I'm a pathetic little puppy and I hate myself for being like that. Why would anyone want someone like that?

And I find myself making excuses for him, then unsure if they're real or my desperation grasping at straws. Like, telling myself it's just stress and work. That he's just trying to run from everything and I'm collateral damage but if I can just make him see he's not alone. But no. When he messes up, I am bitch from hell. Who wants to be married to that?

And I know better! I went through all this before with the XH. I know I'm supposed to do a 180, be confident, not blow up, show him things will change, show him there is hope for happiness. Change me and focus on me for the better so I can survive and be happy no matter the outcome. I know this! But I keep blowing up or crying.

I need to save this... for me. I need some control back. I need to know I gave it 100% and didn't just screw up my marriage. I need to get my ducks in a row. I need to find me. If he tells me tonight he's leaving me, I don't know how I won't be a blubbering mess.

I need to save this... because I love him. Because I still believe in us, in him. Because once upon a time, we were the happiest I've ever been in my life. He was too. That's worth fighting for.

I'm praying non-stop. I just want this fixed, I want the man I fell in love with, I don't want to lose him and the boys, I want this pain to stop, I want my life back. I want me back. I know you all understand.

[hope2011]

I want to add, we saw an MC a year ago when we started having frequent arguments over the house, bills, etc. I asked the mc if he was a SBT therapist, he said he was but was horrible. He was afraid to talk to H about his issues because H gets defensive so he focused on mine because I'm more willing to talk. Which became a bash W session every week for 6 weeks and that just fueled H's issues with me. There was talk about how to save the marriage, work on things, no positivity at all. Just venting. It was HORRIBLE, we'd yell and scream and cry at every session and got nowhere. And then he'd repeat back to us what he thought we said and it never made sense at all. We both think he was smoking something. We'd leave the sessions, look at each other, still angry and ask "did you understand anything he just said" and neither of us did. I'm in the medical field, I know medical jargon even I was clueless. So now H flatly refuses to go see anyone again, even on his own. It was his one and only experience with therapy and he won't even discuss it now. We both need it, together and alone. Life is really hard right now, marriage and everything else. I'm afraid if I go alone, he'll view me as talking about him for an hour and I don't think his esteem can handle it.

[hope2011]

Is this board moderation for everyone or just new people? How in the world does someone keep up with all these posts to moderate? Wow. Not complaining (so grateful to Michele!) but boy, makes it hard to update when moderated because a lot can go on a few hours time.

Update... H opened up to me about work today, first time he's done that in a week. Work isn't good so I expect he'll just get more stressed. He's starting traveling with his job this week and I admit... I am FREAKING out inside, but on the outside. With him posting on that dating site and removing me from FB, I am terrified he'll meet someone else. He's flying out to another state Thursday, coming home the same day. He has to interview a woman for a job position, I know she's real, I know it's just work... but I'm still scared. He informed he has to travel more and I know he does. How do I trust him? How do I not show I'm scared to death? I don't want to push him into an affair.

So some 180's... no sweatclothes anymore, fixing hair and makeup even though I work from home (so does he). Doing better at not hovering and bringing up R. Being more lighthearted with conversation. Haven't said 1 negative thing in 2 days and haven't cried in front of him today. Small steps.

Need to clean but we need to take down the tree and I don't know if I should separate our ornaments and decorations or not? If I have to move, that needs to be done. Maybe I should, so he know I'm taking what he said seriously?

No R talk yet. I know R talk is bad. But I also know we had no R talks between Bomb #1 and #2 and look at where that got me. I don't want to find out he's dating and thinks that's ok because we're "separated" without me knowing it. I asked yesterday morning if we were separated or not and he won't give me a straight answer.

He has also said he still loves me but I'm not sure he means it or is softening the blow. For now, I'm going to believe he means it... gives me hope I need right now.

[WCW]

Hi Hope, welcome, back.
It looks as though there a couple things that he doesn't like that would be easy for you to fix. Get out of your sweats and get dressed, even if you're working from the home. I saw or read somewhere that getting dressed for work even if in the home is better for your work performance. Make sense?

When your wipers quit you called for help, were you specific and ask him to come? I'm not trying to make you the blame but I know sure as chewy chewing gum that I need to talk in language that my H will understand me and not leave it to his interpretation.

From your POV, it sounds like the love is still strong between you but pressure of the world is preventing feeling it. Your H's esteem has taken a big hit, is there ways you can help him find himself again?

Hope your talk goes well....

[dolphin_05]

Hi Hope,
Take a minute to breathe......You can only take one step at a time.

WCW is right. H has given you specific things to work on. That's a help. Start addressing them. Do dress up for work with makeup and perfume. Go for a walk today and eat simple, healthy food.

Be specific with H; tell him what you would like him to do in instances like the windscreen wipers. Men generally want to help but they need specific direction.

He can't handle criticism so don't criticise.......acknowledge his positives, forget the rest. Don't talk too much. Be action orientated!

If in his talk he says he wants to leave you could tell him that that's definitely not what you want but don't beg or plead with him to stay.

Good luck!

[hope2011]

Half an R talk. We were talking about other stuff when the car payment came up. This is our last payment, we get the title this week. It's currently in my name. I told him I will not change it over to his name. I gave up all my furniture, my house, everything when we got married. I have nothing. He has the house, all the furniture. I have 2 old cars worth a total of maybe $7000. Am I wrong to not budge and want to keep it in my name with the situation as it is? I'm afraid he's just stringing me along until he gets the car too. I'm not stopping him from using it, just don't want to switch the title. He threw a fit, says he made most of the payments. Doesn't care that I have nothing, says he didn't "make" me give up my furniture. His was better, we only had room for half of our combined stuff, not all. So mine was sold for pennies, money used to move us into this house. I didn't raise my voice, I didn't get upset, I was calm. But I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach. Again.

[hope2011]

I had 2 other posts between these 2. Someone explain moderation to me please? Thanks.

[hope2011]

Ok, there they are.

[hope2011]

WCW, I haven't done a great job at helping with his self-esteem. Not at all. He gets stressed, yells at me, I yell back, etc. I'm trying to change that.

I think you're right about the windshield wipers. I was too angry before that to tell him what I needed exactly, I just assumed he wouldn't be there and expected the worst from him based on not being there for me for the wedding and New Year's Eve.

dolphin_05, I am trying to make the changes. See my update posts before yours above (moderation didn't post them until after yours).

You're right about not criticizing him. I'm trying.

In our half R talk we only talked about the car (above) and I asked him about the bills, what we're going to do. If we're working on the M or not. He says he doesn't know. But he did pay bills this month today so I guess that means he has no plans to immediately move out. I didn't push farther. He was too steamed about the car so I gave him space (180 for me).

Limbo truly [censored]. I never thought I'd be here again in this situation after all I went through with the XH and DB'ing so long for that M. I thought this guy was "the one", I thought forever, that he'd never hurt me, or cheat or even want to cheat, never leave me or want to leave. I know I can survive this, no matter what happens. But I really hate being in this situation again.

[Denver_2010]

Hi Hope. I am fairly new to the board but have been doing my best to learn on a daily basis for the past 6 weeks or so. Here's some advice that I've been trying to apply to my situation that may be helpful for you too.

1. Don't panic - you are panicking right now. Stop it. You have a lot of positive things still going for you here. a) you are married... divorce isn't going to happen overnight; b) you still live in the same home, c) he is saying that he still loves you, d) He hasn't even said outright that he wants separation, let alone D.

2. Do your 180s - I agree with the advice above. Start getting dressed in the mornings, start exercising, lose that 15 lbs that you gained. These things will make you feel better. Do them for you! But... as a man, I can tell you, these things are bothering him right now. The flip side of that though is that he will notice your changes! Be the person who he fell in love with.

3. Stop criticizing him. You are RIGHT, he is depressed and probably doesn't even realize it. I was depressed for 10 months before my W left and it caused her to act exactly like you describe. My reaction was the same as his, i.e., to say that I was done, wanted out of M etc. If my W had gone even more out of her way than usual to show me that she loved me, supported me, and was still attracted to me my response would have been much different I think. Ultimately, I was such a miserable person to be around, that she left me. Now I am here and realizing that my depression was a major cause.

4. Stop worrying about what H is doing for now. He is going to do what he is going to do. You can't control that. You can set boundaries if you find that he is doing something that is not acceptable to you or M. There is plenty of stuff here on boundaries, and I'm not one to advise on when and how to use them. But the point is, stop worrying about his actions and focus on your's for a while.

5. You might also consider GAL. Going back to my points 2 and 4, start doing stuff for you. Start going out with friends or family. Pick up a new hobby. If he asks why you don't invite him, tell him that he is welcome to join you.

6. Stop worrying about your assets, i.e., the car, the house, the furniture. I tell you this with some expertise as I am an attorney. NOT a divorce attorney, but I have enough knowledge of it to tell you stop worrying about it FOR NOW. Most states divide marital property equally. MARITAL PROPERTY is usually anything that was obtained during the course of the marriage, except for gifts. It usually does not matter who's name something is in. But don't sign the car over in any case. That just shows H that you will do anything for him... weakness. The time for worrying about all of this though is IF D is filed. Then you get a divorce attorney to worry about it for you.

Hope that this helps and would always love a woman's perspective on my situation if you ever have the time.

Denver