I have a thread going in the newcomers section but I wanted to get into some more detail on my sex life with W and the current affair W is having. I am posting this in the affairs section and the sex starved marriage section so I’ll understand if a Mod believes it needs to be removed from one or the other.
I have always been a very sexual person and viewed it as just an act. I often differentiated “making love” with my W from just having sex with a person. In the beginning of our R 8 years ago I made the first moves for sex and once my W responded we were at it like rabbits. Unfortunately, it seems to me like the typical scenario of a declining sex life after marriage. Now, I am the type who has wanted sex at least once per day and it had tapered down to the point of maybe once a week.
I was stupid in several respects. Because me and W have always been open and unconventional I often would make remarks about having sex with other people (like we would be watching TV and I would say, “I’d do her”) and we would joke about that kind of thing. Since I was my W’s first and only sex partner I would tell her that I didn’t mind if she wanted to try other guys but that I’d like to watch. I told her this b/c I viewed “just having sex” as no big deal, like assisted masturbation. She never wanted to and our sex life kept declining from my viewpoint.
Eventually, she was telling me about an older woman she worked with who hadn’t had sex in like 10 years and that my W had told her I would have sex with her and my wife was actually being serious. She was tired of me bugging her for sex and just didn’t want to know if I got a sex buddy. I was surprised and tried to find somebody but I didn’t put much effort into it, I’d rather be having sex with my W. More and more, she offered me up to other friends of hers and they all said no b/c it would be too awkward (never mind that none of them found me attractive). Another stupid thing from me, in a gist, telling my wife that the fact I wanted sex with her all the time proved how much I loved her and how sexy and attractive I think she is.
My W pushing me to find a sex buddy went on for awhile and I told her a few times that I didn’t mind if she did as well, but if she did it I wanted to be involved unlike her request to not know who or when I was doing it. This went on and on and finally my W just found a guy and only told me afterward that she had sex with him b/c she was afraid I’d get angry that she actually did it. She said she was only going to do it once to prove to me that it was ok for me to do but she found she liked it. We went into swinging big time and we had agreed upon rules. Problems started when my W was having sex with other guys by herself more and more. I started snooping and trust on both sides went down the drain fast.
She kept telling me that swinging had brought back her sex drive and I was still the only person she wanted to have an R with. I started seeing some EA with at least 2 of the guys and bugged out more and more. I had anger issues and was doing all of the counter-DB stuff. She said she stopped swinging but was still going to be friends with at least one of the guys. Of course, I didn’t believe her and we argued more and more. She told me that she had done the swinging to make me happy but found she liked it b/c of the attention she got unlike anything she had gotten before.
All of this finally resulted in a WAW episode and during one talk in the beginning of July she said she had no sex drive for anybody. Come Oct I talked with her again (before I read DR) and told her that I realized how worthless I made her feel by swinging and making comments about other women for so long. She said I was right, that she felt like [censored] swinging and that I had been all she ever needed emotionally and sexually but I wanted anybody but her. Since I hadn’t started DBing I told her that she was wrong, I wanted her.
Currently, I know she is dating a guy and he has spent time in the house I am still helping to pay for. He had belongings here and I even saw a piece of mail with his name and my address. I have no concrete proof but I am 99% sure they are having sex…given that there are a few new nude pics of my W on the computer and a search online for a gag “prescription for sex” that has a recommendation of “sex daily with partner of choice”. While swinging was fun when I was involved this is tearing me up b/c she is probably having sex with this guy, this guy is getting to have sex with my hot W, and I am being celibate.
Given all of that I have a few questions and would especially like to hear female perspectives.
1. Was my W’s declining interest in sex due to my lack of romance and foreplay? 2. Did swinging temporarily make her feel good b/c other men found her attractive and she thought my saying so was just an expected response from a H? 3. Was she lying when she told me she was enjoying herself? 4. Once it started upsetting me, was she swinging by herself as a weapon against me? 5. Did she feel worthless b/c I had stopped “making love” to her and was just having sex with her like all these other guys? 6. Did her sex drive really disappear? 7. If she had no sex drive why is she having a PA now? Especially since I have that gut feeling that they are having sex a lot. 8. She told me to date (b/c she was going to date while separated) and from third parties I heard she said she doesn’t care who I have sex with; should I date? Should I go ahead and have sex with other people?
As someone going through the trauma of an affair, I would have to say, in my opinion, you and your wife put your marriage in a very precarious position with the swinging and offering of having other sex partners. I'm sorry you are suffering, but I can't understand your logic to begin with.
Please understand that I'm not tring to be rude or insensitve. I am truly sorry you are going through a difficult time and I wish you the best.
M: 37 H: 36 Married: Aug 13, 2004 Decision to Divorce: July 20, 2008 Reconciled: September 2008 Current: Ambivalence
The only thing I can explain are my what my views were from the time I met my W until they recently switched.
I saw "just sex" as no big deal, no emotional commitment was necessary to enjoy sex, and the only analogy I can give is that "no strings sex" and swinging was like masturbating to a porno with a toy...but the toy is flesh and bone.
If I had ever for a moment realized how unhappy my W was in our R I would have never thought of swinging. I will not start bashing people who are into swinging, but I have always believed that if you are in a serious R or M then you DO NOT swing unless your R is rock-solid.
I am confused mostly how she can go from sexual with me to non-sexual with me...to sexual with anybody and then no sex drive...and now sexual with somebody else. I know it doesn't make sense, it is all emotions and they are contradictory inside me. I want to have sex with somebody, anybody because my body is screaming for it but my SOUL wants my W and nobody else and that's why her having sex with somebody else now is killing me.
I want to bust my divorce and be monogamous with my W. I ask about the dating and having sex while separated b/c I wonder if that will help with detachment. Also, she complained that I never listened to her and now she has told me to date...so if I don't date am I "just not listening to her again" or should I be noble and when she comes out of the fog will she admire that I held her high enough not to be with anybody else?
I am sorry that you are dealing with an affair. I get that you can't understand why we were swingers, and most people can't fathom it. I regret it and in my current situation understand the pain of an affair because what my W is doing is not something the two of us agreed on. I am sorry for your pain and want to let you, and everybody else reading this know that even if the suggestion is for me to date/have sex while separated I don't believe I can. As I said, my body might scream for anything right now but my soul yearns for my W and I have to be able to tell her truthfully that I waited for her once we start reconciling.
I know some might think me overly optimistic to say "when" and not "if" but something I've been learning recently is to truly believe in what you want and expect.
I'll do my best to give some female perspective, but I don't know that it will be all that helpful.
Originally Posted By: AlwaysLoveMyWife
Given all of that I have a few questions and would especially like to hear female perspectives.
1. Was my W’s declining interest in sex due to my lack of romance and foreplay? It could have played a role. For me, I need more than just constant sex. If he helps around the house or makes me feel like he is giving back to the relationship equally, I'm more sexual. 2. Did swinging temporarily make her feel good b/c other men found her attractive and she thought my saying so was just an expected response from a H? I have no idea. Swinging is something I would never be able to consider. I'm not a prude, but when I married, I decided to give myself completely to my h and expected the same in return. I would never enjoy sharing myself or him with anyone else. Ever. 3. Was she lying when she told me she was enjoying herself? You should have an honest conversation with yourself and see if you can come up with the answer. 4. Once it started upsetting me, was she swinging by herself as a weapon against me? Why would she want to use it as a weapon against you? 5. Did she feel worthless b/c I had stopped “making love” to her and was just having sex with her like all these other guys? It would make me feel worthless if my husband ever suggested I had sex with another man. 6. Did her sex drive really disappear? Sex is emotional for most women. If her emotions died, then it's likely her sex drive died as well. 7. If she had no sex drive why is she having a PA now? Especially since I have that gut feeling that they are having sex a lot. Her sex drive may have died with you because of the emotional death, but if her emotions are tied up with this new guy, she'll most likely have a raging sex drive. Think back to when you two first got together. The endorphines of a new and exciting relationship make sex a wonderful thing. 8. She told me to date (b/c she was going to date while separated) and from third parties I heard she said she doesn’t care who I have sex with; should I date? Should I go ahead and have sex with other people? Honestly, my advice would be for you to focus on yourself and imagine the kind of marriage you truly want first.
M: 37 H: 36 Married: Aug 13, 2004 Decision to Divorce: July 20, 2008 Reconciled: September 2008 Current: Ambivalence
girlfromipanema, thank-you very much for your input.
I don't think of you as a prude and I know swinging is a very controversial idea. I told one friend that after this, I would never actively recommend it to a couple and would warn any to make sure there are absolutely no issues in the R.
It makes sense about the emotions for a new guy rekindling her sex drive. I know my situation is not the same as yours sense we already shared ourselves with others, but girlfromipanema, I have an understanding of the pain you're going through and I'm very sorry.
Geez, had a woman who is recently separated tell me she doesn't want a boyfriend but does want to get laid. She said I could use her to make my W jealous.
Not a very high degree of difficulty is she? Do you want to be with a woman who thinks so little about intimacy? or herself?
ALMY - seems to me you are at a cross roads. You say you want a loving, intimate marriage with your wife but you are tempted by a hedonistic lifestyle full of drama and kinky sex. I don't know if it's possible to have both - and I'd have thought that even if you wanted to indulge in the polyamourous lifestyle a strong, committed, passionate marriage would be the best place to start.
I know you are hurting right now. I know it's really tough thinking of your wife with another man or men. You are in the cyclone, looking for some easy fix for the pain.
A new sexual relationship will give you a quick fix for a while ... but it's like eating a sugar lolly .... it won't last long and it won't fix what ails you.
Perhaps you've been given this time to really take some time out to think about what you DO want for your life. Do you want a loving relationship with one woman, or do you want to play the field and live a batchelors existence. Life doesn't just happen ya know - we get the opportunity to make decisions about how we want it to happen.
Do the work on yourself my friend. Figure out if you want to stand for your marriage ... if you do, there's some good strategies, advice and friends here to work with you.
Blessings, V
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
I was getting tempted and not thinking. I told her that we needed to slow down b/c both of us were probably not thinking straight b/c both of us have been without for awhile. I told her that this probably wouldn't be the best thing for me to do while trying to save my marriage.
You're right about the pain. I really want to get home b/c I think I can do a better job of GALing and healing.
