Deju vu, but new to the online forum...round 2

[mj144]

Well, it looks like my last thread is locked now. Is that a status symbol?

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2109797#Post2109797

Responding to habitacker from my last thread:
Believe me, I appreciate everything you say. The great thing about this site is that having someone else say it, even though the parties are obviously different, even though I should feel it and know it, gives hope to the sitch, whether it is minimal, temporary, or not. Your words do help and since the 3 of us are in very similar places, at the very least, we can try and pick each other up when we need it. Just hearing another voice helps.

[mj144]

It has been a week since my last posting on my thread and it was a week filled with tremendous anxiety.

Tis the season to be stressed out!!! I am very relieved that Christmas is now a thing of the past. I was raised Jewish, so this is a holiday that is something that didn't have a meaning to me until I married and especially now that I have kids, of course. That being said, my Ws family lives here in Colorado and I have no family here, so my angst leading up to C Eve at the IL's house was off the charts. I wasn't sure if the stocking my MIL made for me would be hanging, but I did know that since they are wonderful people, although there would be a cloud over the evening, they would make me feel very welcome. I suppose the only way things would have been better was if my sitch wasn't what it was. Not only was my stocking hung, but I got a very generous gift from my IL's and my BIL & SIL even gave me a gift. It was a very pleasant, but a bit uneasy evening.

Then we get home, put the kids to bed and by the time they fell asleep and it was time to put their presents under the tree, my W also had fallen asleep. I woke her up and got the presents and started putting them under the tree. Well...unfortunately, I didn't realize that there was a method to my W's madness and she had the kids presents separated in 2 different bags and only some of them were tagged. By the time she came out, I had taken all of the presents out of the bag and she flipped since she didn't know which were which. She ranted and raved and was all pissed that she was going to have to unwrap and re-wrap the presents since they had to be set up in a certain way. Here I am trying to apologize and she makes me feel like I just committed some serious crime. I guess some good came out of it as after she got everything finally situated(without letting me help of course, geez!) she actually apologized for jumping my s**t. I of course in good DB manner thanked her for her apology and apologized myself again.

Christmas morning was a blast with the kids getting exactly what they wanted. There is nothing quite like the excitement of a 5 and 7 yr. old opening their presents on Christmas. Well, my wife didn't react quite in the same manner as my girls when she opened the gift I got her. It was a set of 3 stones each engraved with different words, 'Believe', 'Promise" and 'Forever'. The meaning is pretty self explanatory, but Forever has always been a special 'motto' of ours in reference to the song Forever by Ben Harper who we both discovered when we started dating 12 years ago and has extra special meaning. I have it tattooed on my chest with our wedding date and sign every card, letter and sentimental thing with. She barely looked at them, cast them aside and I wasn't quite sure she even saw the words. Well, they sat in their bag on an end table in the living room until she cleaned up last night. At which time, I found them on the stairs to the basement on a pile of other random stuff, not knowing where they will end up. At least she didn't toss them. I wasn't really expecting much in return for the gift other than it getting my point across.

We went to her sister's house for Christmas dinner. Again, a nice evening, albeit with the sitch at hand, a bit awkward. Now that I think about it, who else but me was it really awkward for? Probably only in my own head.

Well, in the spirit of the holiday's and having the feeling that being together as a family just felt right and the way it should be, I couldn't help myself. I knew my wife had or was planning on calling a mediator to set up a meeting to begin the process of dissolving the M. Figuring that I might be able to feed off of the good will of Christmas and the such, I decided to do a very un-DB thing. I approached my wife after the kids were in bed and asked her to talk. I not only asked her to talk, but I approached it as "Can we REALLY talk?" Asked her to open up and to not cut off the conversation as she typically would. She agreed to talk, but would not guarantee for how long. Well, we talked for almost 1 1/2 hours.

Although she confirmed her desire to divorce me, stating that she would be a fool to try again after everything we've been through, my emotional roller coaster, over-reacting and yelling at the kids, her raising 3 kids(me included) instead of just 2 and all of the things she felt about what got us to where we are, it was a great conversation. For the first time in a long time, it felt like we were working together to get to a common ground. I affirmed everything she said, telling her how much I understood where she was coming from and understood why she didn't believe in me right now and I just was able to listen and not argue back at her and I could see that for the first time in quite a while, she wasn't defensive, or cold or distant. Even though she was telling me all the reasons why things were wrong with us, I could see in her eyes that when I was talking, even though she said a few times that she heard it before, I feel like she was truly listening to me. She even told me that she doesn't love me any more and asked why I would want to be with someone who didn't love me. I just told her I understood and that it was something that I am going to keep trying to earn back from her.

I decided that since she was about to start the process of D, that I would suggest that I move out and asked her if I did, would she agree to slow things down and not move forward with anything. She agreed, offered me no promises, reiterated that she isn't doing it with the thought of reconciling, but that she would just slow down. I actually ended the conversation, not her!

Well, I guess I just bought myself some time. Now the real DBing starts. I can finally detach and GAL. It just isn't happening while I am still living here.

I found a possible place to rent today. I am meeting with a flight attendant tomorrow who has a room to rent that is in my neighborhood and she is not looking for any lease commitment. I told my wife about it tonight and we talked about some arrangements with the kids and I made sure we were still in the same understanding that she would slow down. She agreed, but again reiterated her stance, which I affirmed and assured her that I am doing this for myself with no expectations, only hope.

So now I am going to be starting the new year by moving out of my house and taking a huge leap of faith that this is the right thing to do in order to save my M. It feels counter-intuitive, but it also feels right in a strange way.

I know this posting is rather long, but I would really like to have feedback from the crafty veterans to let me know that I am doing the right thing.

[habitacker]

I am in no better position than you to give any advice on your last post. But, I will be waiting for a response to it, because I have also had thoughts of moving out.

My wife would also talk if I asked her to, but I know in DBing that is wrong. I am just afraid she will never initiate a R talk even if she wanted to. This is one of the reasons we are in this sitch, no communication. She just avoids stuff like this,always has.

I will be waiting for a response with you.

[mj144]

Well, I took a calculated risk with the talk. I know it is completely against the DB principles, but the way I look at it was that it worked for the better. At least for now. Where I was, I was stuck. My wife was ready to proceed. I wasn't able to detach and GAL like I needed to in the current sitch the way it is, so I took a gamble. I think it worked well.

I think there is a part of the whole DB process that cannot take into consideration the individuals and their personalities. While the methods are solid and they work, they are obviously not fool proof, nor can they always be universal in their approach. Some may agree with me, my guess is a lot will disagree.

Where I find myself after talking with my wife is, yes back at square one. But with where I was and where it was going to go, I think square one is a better place than I was. Like I said, I bought myself some more time, have put myself in a position of more confidence that I can fight the good fight from different battle lines and I think that I have truly gotten my wife to rethink some things, if at the least temporarily. I feel like I am in a better position to detach and GAL then I would be if I stayed.

Don't get me wrong, I am scared s**tless to walk out of my house away from my wife and kids with the hope that it brings us back together, but at least now, I have a foundation for a plan moving forward.

[habitacker]

I would still like to hear from some others on this.

I can not comment right or wrong, because I really have no idea. I just know I am not strong enough to leave my house and kids.

I have also thrown around the idea of asking her to leave, She wants the D. I do not think she has ever thought about that before.

If the D ever did come, I would not fight her for the house. It would be for her and the kids. The image of someday another man in my house with my kids? Now that's a different story. Hopefully that problem is left for a different day that never comes.

[MrBond]

So what did you tell your W?

Look the basic premise with DB is that you do what works. The no R talk is something that is misunderstood alot by newbies. You do the no R talk in the beginning to relieve the pressure. If you see the WAS is open to it, then you address it.

It's not that you NEVER address it. It's the fact that you pick the time and conditions when it will work in your favor. Many LBSs believe the R talk means that you demand the WAS make a decision. It doesn't work that way. Would it work on you if the roles were reversed?

[mj144]

I guess my post was a bit too long, huh? Sorry.

I spent a lot of the conversation validating her feelings about my behaviors. I told her that I had lost my identity and relied way to heavily on her for my happiness. That I finally understood what she meant by 'damned if she did, damned if she didn't' I told her that I have been living in ambivalence for a long time expecting her to make all of the decisions around the house from what we eat for dinner to what we do on the weekends. I told her that I need to detach myself from her to rediscover myself so that in the event that she decides that we can try to get back together, I will be capable of having a healthy M. I told her that ultimately, I know that if she decides to move forward with D, that there isn't anything that I could or would do to make it difficult for her and specifically the kids. I bit the bullet big time for some specific instances where I was a real a**hole. I did the best job I could to fall on the sword and take accountability for my actions with sincerity and humility. I left myself very vulnerable and I could see in her eyes that she took it to heart. Although she never once left me with any reason to be overly optimistic that this was anything but an opportunity to get an opportunity to build on a very thin foundation, I take it as the most positive interaction we have had since she dropped the bomb in September. It feels like since we spoke on Saturday, there has been a lighter mood around the house.

Was that question for me or habitacker?

[mj144]

For some reason, I don't seem to be getting too much feedback from many of my posts here recently.

I would really like some opinions as to what some of the veterans think about what I've had to say about things that have happened and my emotions and most specifically, I would like some reassurance that my decision to make the moves I just made the last few days are ultimately in the best interest of my sitch and how I should be playing my next moves.

[Denver_2010]

MJ - I'm not sure that I'm qualified to give too strong of an opinion, but it sounds like you are doing what is best for your situation. I know that most people on this board suggest avoiding physical separation as long as possible. I'm not sure that that is always the best thing. My W and I were 'separated' but living in the same house for 6 months. We didn't actually acknoweldge it as a separation, and I'm not sure if it was me or her that was the WAS during that time. What I can say is that nothing got better during that time... at all. It wasn't until my W told me that she was actually leaving our home that I actually 'got it'. Now it might be too late; I acknowledge that. But nothing was going to change as long as we stayed in the same house. Now, I am doing my 180, GAL and applying LRT. My W's anger has seemed to subside somewhat over the past week or so. I recognize that W leaving the home was the best thing however this turns out bc our M isn't going to survive without some major changes on both our parts.

I guess what I'm saying is that you leaving the home may very well be the best thing that can happen for you M. Maybe she will 'get it' once your moving truck is pulling out of the driveway. It will give both of you the space and time necessary for you both to look at your own actions leading to the state of your M and to decide what each of you really wants.

I see a lot of people on here that are separated, but are still living in the same home. It seems to me that most are living in a perpetual state of limbo. I think that you are moving the game (and I hate to call it that) forward by leaving.

[habitacker]

What you have done seems good to me, but I am in the same boat as you. So take that for what it is worth.

I am curious though, what are some of the things she said? Or did she mainly just listen?