Working on acceptance and forgiveness

[beatrice]

Antonia, I haven't posted for a while - partly because this far on, I do have a very full and enjoyabe life.

There are therapists who do not buy in to MLC. However, there are also many who do, even if they do not use the same terminology that many use here. It becomes a sort of shorthand for us.

I think Holly's recent post said a lot of it. At this stage I can see that the journey was about me, and the person I have chosen to become in the face of what was a reat tragedy (as for so many here). I am not sure that the issue is about 'standing', it is a question of our learning to live alone, and become a whole person in our own right again. We were half of a pair, and our wholly understandable response is to replace that. It is what society is telling us too.

I agree that detachment is a key need. Once we largely detach (and it is well nigh impossible to do it quickly) we are less hurt. We can observe what is going on, and we can continue to love the person. There is nothing wrong in that

Someone on one of your previous threads asked me why I was so concerned with defining what MLC was - I think the poster also did not 'buy in' to the concept. It was a very good question, and I have been thinking about it for a while, on and off. (But left it too long to reply (pressure of enjoying life is my excuse).

There are a number of reasons why people leave their spouses. MLC is a reason. It doesn't actually mean that the marriage was a bad one, and that we were unsatisfactory as spouses. As I understand it MLC is mainly about something cataclysmic that is happening to our partner, over which we have no control, and can do nothing about. It is their journey, and one from which they may not return. If they do they will be changed. I suspect some of the people who doubt it have not actually observed it, but something else. But I could be wrong! Although it appears to happen a lot because of our on line community, I am not sure that a full blown MLC is that common an occurence.

We can grow and mature, and come to see dispassionately what is happening in their life. It is an immature notion that we only love someone if they love us back. It is also dysfunctional if we remain fixated on them, so the object, I think, is to steer this balance between personal growth, and learning distance and compassion for them.

Along the way you may meet someone else - lots of people who come here do, and go on to have successful second relationships, others get back together. Some stay single because they like it, after a time. We all have the choice to become stronger and more grown up [I agree with Frank Pittman's view that we need to grow up as a society).

It can be hard, as well as stimulating, getting conflicting advice, and I would have found it difficult seeing a therapist who didn't think there was such a thing as MLC. My therapist didn't use the same words, but was very clear to him that what was happening to my h was a serious form of dysfunction, that he was deeply depressed, and sabotaging his own life, but that I could do nothing, but focus on me. He was clear that I was not the problem,and that at some level he could not access my husband still loved me deeply. This btw was the result of joint therapy, not what I had told the therapist, but my h discontinued the therapy as he found it too painful. I continued.

I conitnue to care for my husband, but days go by now when I don't think about him. I certainly never worry about what he is doing. I wish him well, and hope that one day he will be able to rebuild some of his key relationships that are shattered.

[AntoniaB]

Thanks, Beatrice, that gives me a lot to think about.

In terms of goings on today, stbxh came as scheduled to pick up his tree ornaments, and I left him a photo album that I had given him years ago that I had kept all this time. I thought about it long and hard, and I wrapped it up and put a note with it, saying that I felt it was time to give it back to him for good, because doing so was about releasing mySELF more than anything. I really put a lot of thought into this action, and to me, the pics in this album (which were mostly of me from the past 20 years) represented who I was. They no longer represent me now. They represent my past. I told him that I was happy for all the years these pics represented but that I had to let go of that part of my life because it no longer existed. That I had to stop "looking back" and instead to "look forward." I thanked him in the note for the smiles on my face, saying that I was sure that he was responsible for that smile, but that now, I was responsible for putting a smile on my own face, and that it was important that I made my own happiness.

I felt I gave him this album with pics of me and our cats free from manipulation. 100%. I just wanted some closure on that part of my life.

So he sent me an email about 4 hours later, saying he "at first doubted my sincerity" with the note and album but then "stewed on it for awhile" and figured that I didnt't give it to him with any "negativity."

I have to say that while I had no expectations of NICE behavior as a result, I didn't expect this sort of negative comment, the "doubting my sincerity."

I mean, here I am, the person who has NEVER BROKEN A TRUST, never done anything bad to him, while he has created all the harm and nearly drove me to suicide, and that's the response I get??

Doubting my sincerity?

WTF???

It's at moments like these that I start thinking I married a colossal A*S and he just hid that till now.

Whatever. We'll be divorced any day now. I'm not writing to him any more.

[AntoniaB]

And I just want to reiterate: I had NO EXPECTATIONS OF GOOD COMMENTS about my giving him this album. I wanted to do so to signify MY release of the past.

I hoped that if anything, he would say NOTHING.

I didn't expect at all that he would "doubt my sincerity." I put so much emotion and thought into writing the letter which, for the first time ever, said that I was only wanting to "forgive" him and "release" him. I never expected he'd say he "doubted my sincerity." That hurts. I know, I KNOW, my heart was in the right place, and I never did anything in my life to suggest anything different, and here he is acting like I'm the one who can't be trusted.

[seeking answers]

Antonia,

They are not the same person we married, so along with zero expectations, be prepared for anything. If you are going to make any gesture, make sure you are prepared for any reaction on your MLCer's part.

Your H is self centered and entitled right now. He will make anything you do all about him. He will not consider your feelings or trust that anything you do concerning him is without an agenda.

At some point, hopefully your H will emerge, look at that album and appreciate your thoughtfulness in giving it to him and the wonderful memories those pictures evoke.

(((Hugs))) you're doing great!

[beatrice]

Antonia, sadly this type of response to a kind gesture is not unusual. Remember, it is about them. They doubt themselves. Like you, and many others here, I have done similar actions, meant as loving and kind, but they have been misinterpreted. It is a sign of damage.

Anyone emotionally normal would have thanked you, and even if he had doubted your motives, given you the benefit of the doubt. That is how grown up people behave. These people cannot allow themselves to doubt or explore the possibility that they may not be acting in a way that is at all off beam. Actually that isn't quite true, there are moments when they emerge from the fog, and can be quite nice, but usually they disappear, having spent just long enough being their former self to make us think they might be returning to a kind of normality.

Currently my husband thinks I am trying to swindle him over our divorce settlemeant, whereas in reality he is getting a deal that is more than fair. The are paranoid, trust no-one because they do not trust themselves. It hurts, when we never did anything mean or dishonest in our lives, to have our motives doubted, but it simply underlines how much this is about their issues.

None of this is personal, it just feels that way. Really, if you were watching this as a tv show, you would see that he is acting out of his own damage. We don't have to like it, but I feel if we understand it, it hurts us less. Which is one reason I continue to try and understand this strange thing that some of us label MLC.

If it feels like 'Aliens captured my spouse and are using his body' then it probably is a MLC.

Makes quite a good topic title - I feel I should add 'Discuss'!

[Cyrena]

Hi Antonia,

I just want to echo what Beatrice has said. I well remember wondering one day, how did I never realize when I married H that he was so selfish and self-centred? The truth is, it is a symptom of an MLC.

My brother is going through a severe depression right now. Somehow, he's fixating on me as the source of all his problems: if I'd never told him that I'd been molested by someone he adored as a child, his life would be fine. I was wrong for how I told him, that I told him, every way I've handled it since then, etc etc. If I say pretty much anything to him, in his mind it quickly becomes twisted so that I've said something nasty, am trying to hurt him, am acting from unkind motives, etc.

Because it's my brother, not H, it's easier to see how the depression has made him incapable of actual reasoning--everything he says is based on emotions that are beyond his control, leaving him confused and attaching blame in the wrong places in attempts to rationalize and explain away things that he doesn't want to face.

I know that you placed a particular meaning on why you gave the album; however, you CANNOT expect a depressed person to understand your motivations, because his mind cannot grasp the "big picture" at this point. Looking back, I have to feel extremely sorry for my H for going through the MLC, because it must have been agonizingly painful to be so filled with doubt, anger, confusion, tunnel vision and paranoia that nobody's motives could be trusted.

[AntoniaB]

I totally understand what you guys are saying about his reactions. I guess the hard part for me is that he has me CONVINCED that he's no longer in MLC or in depression. I mean I can't count how many times he says he's feeling good, or how many times he says that while he admits he was in MLC and depression, that all that ended when he got out of the marriage--that the marriage was what was "holding him back" from enjoying his life and that he just needed to be with "the right person" to be able to feel free and in charge of his destiny. He keeps telling me that he's fine, he's happy, he's clear, and he feels very much past all that "confusion" that he was in for the past year or so.

And I know that is all rationalization, but I actually think that as long as his new relationship holds out, he's going to believe every word he says about being past MLC. Like I really think he has fooled himself again into thinking everything is ok, especially because, like I said before, he sees me doing SO WELL without him. I think he thinks he did me a favor in dumping me.

[Cyrena]

I hear you about them insisting they're not depressed, in MLC, etc, and that the OP is a magic bullet--I got all that script as well. But you know that a R which begins in deceit, lies, guilt, etc, can never be the healthy, model R which he craves, however much they try to convince themselves (and you) otherwise.

Moreover, you can't fool a depression into going away--for a while the endorphins make the new R feel like an antidote to earlier problems, but once these wear off, the MLCer realizes that he's making the same mistakes in his new R, that all the old negative feelings are coming back. And this generally does happen within the new R (though some stubborn MLCers just keep cycling with new women).

What I wanted to add to my earlier comments is that, because of unresolved issues from childhood/young adulthood, the depressed person feels like a victim. He feels this so strongly that he becomes convinced that his spouse MUST be victimizing him, and rationalizes accordingly.

You know, he DID do you a favour by dumping you. You have thrived as a result, and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that you are benefitting from being forced to address aspects of your life which weren't working. Additionally, the growth you've been forced to make will serve you well in any future R, including with your H, if that should happen. Likewise, your H will never be a complete adult unless he tackles his demons. Try to focus on these positives, rather than on the negatives you've given above (not easy, I know!!).

[AntoniaB]

Thanks for the words of wisdom, Cyrena :-)

Well I love how life can just work out if you wait a little. I was thinking that I'd wait till divorce decree was in hand and put up a profile on match.com to see if that intriguing guy would notice. Hey, I can always just find a friend. I don't have to enter into anything more if I make that clear--with anyone.

Guess what? He has removed his profile. He must have done one of their freebie long weekends or whatever, because I have never seen someone get on and get off so quickly.

Now I don't need to make that decision anymore :-)

So regarding Christmas I have offered to make a big dinner on Christmas Eve, for my only single girlfriend. Here is to a new tradition!

[cat4554]

best of Luck AntoniaB....I am in your boat minus the divorce. He never pushed it, I did in Sept. Then I let go of all that when I was ready to accept him that he doesn't know what he is doing. You know what, honestly, I can't do it. It hurts too much. He still continues to lie, have secrets and I accidentally found him on Plenty of Fish looking for an easy going female and wanting a long term relationship. That was on Sunday, Nov. 21.
To this day, he offers no apologies for being there. Meanwhile on Nov. 8th we celebrated our 30th anniversary. Too long & complicated a story.
Anyway, all I know is I AM SO DONE. I cannot do this anymore.
Life is short, I could die tomorrow and if I do, I want to die happy and not be concerned about him. I haven't gotten there 100% but I am working on it.

This is a rough road. I keep reading the philosophies on Buddhism and try to live it. Life is full of suffering of all kind, basically we have to learn how to deal with it.

Sharing my Favorite Life Quote - And after everything I've been through, I still rise.