Is there any reason to hope - yet another one

[dbmod]

Congratulations, Harrier! You are doing something RIGHT! Figure out what it is and do MORE of it.

[Harrier]

Thanks, but I still am feeling a tad angry and confused with the DB process. It seems that the person who doesn't want the divorce has to do all the changing and all the hard work while the person who wants to leave gets a free pass to do anything and everything they want...including the bad things that led to the breakdown.

I find myself very angry with W because I feel I'm doing all the work on the relationship and she can do what she wants. I know it's because you can't make the other person change and they have to do it for themselves. But what if they never change or care or want to change?

it can be exhausting and frustrating. I know I'm luckier than many here.

Also, my wife and I had a quick chat this morning. She asked how I was doing. I said better. Then she asked why, I said I'm feeling more positive about us. Then she said "Good, I am too." She added that when I was sad and depressed about the situation (I would breakdown in front of her) she felt helpless and that a decision had been made already. So she couldn't feel positive. Interesting lesson.
Of course after all that "positive" talk she added at the end, "I don't know how this will turn out." I guess the glass is half empty person said that divorce is still an option, while the optimist could say "at least she hasn't made up her mind."

It's a process.

[Truegritter]

But what if they never change or care or want to change?

Good question.

For you.

We come here looking to save our M of course.

We have an opportunity to learn some things about ourselves, life and love because of this tragedy.

Think about this.

We learn to love as an exchange. We expect to get something in return.

So it goes in our M.

I am not talking about accepting bad behavior. I am talking about why you love someone and how you love them.

Is it only when they do what you want?

And

Are you making changes only for the expectation you will get what you want?

Comes a day when you understand that what you do is for YOU.

And if your W decides to share that or wants that, then great.

What are you prepared to do if you are not guaranteed your M can be saved?

[Harrier]

I appreciate that True and to some extent you are right.

I guess it just frustrating at times. in the end, you can't make someone love you and you can't make someone stay - no matter how great you become for them. They have to make that choice. Yes you have some power in this, but ultimately you can be at their decision.

I think for me I'm making changes that needed to be made to get me back to where I was. but honestly, I didn't chose to have depression, but I'm working to deal with it. I did some crazy stuff these past few months. I know that. I want to get back to where I was mentally. My hope is that if I make those changes for me, then W will decide that she wants to be with me.

But I think to some extent we start making those changes because our spouse dropped a bomb. Think about it how many tales here begin with the LBS only looking at making changes once the "bomb" is dropped. Personally, I started making those changes before my "bomb" was dropped (not to toot my own horn).

In the end it's a process. It didn't take a week to unravel a marriage and it's not going to take a week to put it back together. I look at it like my marriage is a brick wall. A wrecking ball hit that wall and knocked it down. Now you have to start rebuilding piece by piece from the bottom up. You can't build it overnight and each person has to do their part.

[Truegritter]

In the end it's a process. It didn't take a week to unravel a marriage and it's not going to take a week to put it back together.

This ^^^^ is a good perspective to have.

[Harrier]

Update: not really an update. Nothing has moved forward or backward for that matter. On Sat. Night she invited me to watch a movie with her. Of course we were in separate places, she on the couch and me on the chair. I was really agitated about it. She picked it up and it grew into an R discussion. I told her (stupidly) that I missed that stuff with her - the hand holding, the kissing, the affection.
She then said that where she is now - inviting me to watch a move WAS her show of affection. I then felt bad.
On Sunday morning, I had to go into work for a meeting and was pissed and snapped at her before I left. Some of it w as R related as we talked about her "friend" BTW I'm starting to believe her on that.
She said that he was the least of our problems in working things out.
I think she has this fantasy about temporary separation. Of course she keeps saying "We'll talk about the separation thing tomorrow." Then we never talk about it.
Last night she invites me into her room to talk (no R) before bed. I was pretty good and I had her laughing. She thank me for giving her space. I think she really appreciate my work on changes - though it's killing me not to be affectionate or sleep in the same bed or just hang out like we used to.

Then this morning as we were leaving we stopped by the cars and she said "Can I give you a hug?" Of course I said yes.

Okay, so I have a few questions.
1. Should I initiate the temporary separation talk that she keeps putting off? I actually did some research on this a little i.e. places to live, costs, etc.
2. How do I react when she wants to give me a hug? I don't want to shut her down.
3. I also filled out the Divorce paperwork- Summons and Complaint & related docs (she asked me to do this before she decided to take it off the table) I have to admit it's a little scary seeing it in black and white and I think she would probably agree. I'm not going to show her, but I wonder if she might accidentally see it. I don't really put it up.

I guess I'll keep trucking on. I'm hoping to start sleeping in the same room in the next few weeks. :fingerscrossed:

[CD Bear]

Hi Harrier-

It appears your mindset is going in the right direction.
This is going to take a lot of time since you rightly said it took a lot of time to get where it is.

As far as your questions, and if we are to run with the idea of "doing what works", since she has shelved the Divorce paper, my suggestion is to leave the paper in your office (away from the house)

IMO, I'd continue what you are doing; don't bring up the separation or D.

Keep working on what YOU can do to improve what YOU see as your contributions to the state of the M and LET GO of trying to get any response from her.

You just do what you feel comfortable with FOR YOU and she will do what she does. Or doesn't.

She isn't the focus anynore. I know it's hard with her in your face but you simply have to take the focus off of her.

She will feel your 'attention" as pressure and/or pursuit.

The hug is fine if she is asking. But I wouldn't hold on too long. Be the first to let go.

My only other pointer other than the DB101 of no R talk ("I'm still thinking about this and won't talk about it right now")and listening/validating what she says, I woulld re-evaluate things like the movie invite.

If you are not really engaged with her (sitting apart) then I would propose finding something else to do UNLESS it's a movie YOU want to watch.

My two cents.

[Harrier]

Nothing new to report. except I'm having problems not doing any R talk. It seems W is so adept at sucking me with with questions like "how are you doing." I really think we need to just not talk about the M for a while or so.
Last night, I got mad at her because she kinda shut me out. Usually she carves a little time to chat before we go to bed (in separate rooms). She wanted to know what it was about. So we ended up talking. I broke down and told her I was frustrated with the situation, she validated that feeling. She noted how "hard I have been working" She also said that she doesn't know if she can make a decision about anything now like temp separation because it could be the wrong one. She seems to think a temp sep will show her how much she wants to be in the marriage and stay married. It will be like a reset for her emotions. She also said my "hard work" has no bearing either positive or negative on her desire to try separating. Of course I wonder now if it's just chance to move her almost EA to a PA. I don't know. she also says that she doesn't really want to separate when she really thinks about it. Of course we don't have the $$ to have 2 households now. The good thing is that she said she is thinking about everything a lot. She told me before that she really wasn't thinking instead just pushing those thoughts out.
She is still really pissed at me, though.
When we intially went to separate bedrooms, we agreed that we would review where we were at after a week. (I mean we've been sleeping in separate rooms for 3 weeks). But that talk didn't happen tonite because she went to bed early as she was coming down with something.
I would really like to move back into the same bed, but I decided that even if she proposes that I'm going to suggest that we wait at least another week. (If I'm strong) and we have a week of no R talk.

So my goals for the next week are
1) try not to react to things she does (like disappearing upstairs and leaving me to watch our kids) . I got mad.
2) Not to have any R talk
3) Be in a good mood, continue to enjoy my time by myself.
4) Still be a good parent and
5) Good friend to W. I know she still sees me as that.

I am sad that she hasn't said ILY in about a week or so.
I think she might be on the fence to just trying to move past everything by getting back into a normal H&W pattern then working on the issues.

tomorrow I have my weekly apt with IC. See how it goes.

Weirdly sometimes, I'm mad at my wife and think that I deserve better. But then I remember all the good stuff. I hate being in limbo.

[Harrier]

Enlighting appointment with the IC. He kinda smacked me in the forehead and pinpointed my problem that led me to where I am. Unfortunately, I see a lot of it on here too and I think its part of many people's problems.

I'm very down today. My wife and I had a long talk last night. More of the same from her. She doesn't know where she's at. She wants us to make a joint decision on any divorce (total BS). She wants to live alone for a while to clear her head, etc. She said she loves me, but doesn't know if that's enough. She said that she could get through all the stuff that went on the last 10 months between us but she's a a point now where she doesn't even want to try.
Then,she told me that part of her doesn't want to me married...not to me..not to anyone and that she has always been a loner. So the DB plays right into her fantasy, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know what the f to do. She's still living in a fantasy world were everyone separates and life goes on just fine. I'm not going to be friends with someone who didn't give our marriage the respect enough to try to fixi it. Of course she said she still needs more time to sort this out. I can't do this for years and years. Part of wants to give her the divorce and be done.
But I do love her and I think she has some affection for me.

I'm just confused, sad and pessimistic today. I feel it's only a matter of time before she decides she doesn't want to be married. I know that she can pick up on this and I should be optimistic, but it seems like a waste of feelings.

[Truegritter]

I feel it's only a matter of time before she decides she doesn't want to be married.

And that is what it costs you. Time.

Your choice what to do with how you feel about your W's choices.

The fear of what SHE will choose.

Don't let it dictate what YOU choose.

What do you want?

Decide that from a place of strength NOT emotion.

And step toward it every day.

It matters not how your W feels about your M.

Choose for YOU.

Then get to gettin'